Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[stan laurel]

Yes, I see your point now. Agreed.

I wonder about the age of the house and if it still had a milk delivery chute? I used to get into our house as a kid by reaching thru. I noticed that the front living room windows on AL's house weren't upgraded to new good double paned, so the milk chute might still be there.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

IMO the door was inadvertently left unlocked. The signs for the estate sale were still on the front door, so I'm assuming if they had locked the door, they would have taken their signs down.

If the perp planned this at all, I'm confident he would have planned a way in, and not simply hoped they would leave a door or window unlocked.

 

[otto]

He was caught in the possession of break and enter tools. I read it in some report.

It is listed in the time line.

1992 October 23 – charges listed in BC court registry under file #42183-1-H (against Douglas ROBERT Garland):

So we can easily assume that from the methamphetamine charges that DG likely was in contact with a funding group like say the H.A or Grim Reapers.

With the B&E charges, he was likely in contact with a fence, someone who'd pay him for his thefts.

Pure speculation, but maybe AL's daughter - who was shot for uncontrollable crime debts - connected DG to her father. And a further speculation is that maybe it wasn't the matter of a patent dispute but rather DG intro'ing AL to some quick high interest cash to start his next enterprise,, Winter failed, the backers put the heat on DG and DG in turn put the heat on AL.

Can we find out what he was breaking and entering to in BC? Was that after he fled to BC to avoid prison time for drug trafficking?

That's an interesting thought ... that would be consistent with police describing the case as complex. If the accused met the victim through the victim's daughters' underground adventures (who gets shot in the breast enhancements!), that would mean that Alvin was taking business referrals from his daughter. Good for him, but ... is that likely?

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I wonder about the age of the house and if it still had a milk delivery chute? I used to get into our house as a kid by reaching thru. I noticed that the front living room windows on AL's house weren't upgraded to new good double paned, so the milk chute might still be there.

I haven't seen any milk delivery chutes on house. I have seen pictures of the side of the house as well by the garage and don't see any there either.

 

[stan laurel]

Can we find out what he was breaking and entering to in BC? Was that after he fled to BC to avoid prison time for drug trafficking?

That's an interesting thought ... that would be consistent with police describing the case as complex. If the accused met the victim through the victim's daughters' underground adventures (who gets shot in the breast enhancements!), that would mean that Alvin was taking business referrals from his daughter. Good for him, but ... is that likely?

At a certain point (and getting on in entrepreneur age) one would find their investor sources starting to dwindle, especially after all the other bust ventures. AL's daughter knew some shady's, so did DG,,, in fact as far as a social life for DG, I think criminals is all he knew. Airdrie has some pretty sketchy characters (no offense to Airdriens on this forum),, and why did PG go to a different school than DG,, was it that the parents didn't like the crowd her son met? So many questions.

 

[stan laurel]

Can we find out what he was breaking and entering to in BC? Was that after he fled to BC to avoid prison time for drug trafficking?

That's an interesting thought ... that would be consistent with police describing the case as complex. If the accused met the victim through the victim's daughters' underground adventures (who gets shot in the breast enhancements!), that would mean that Alvin was taking business referrals from his daughter. Good for him, but ... is that likely?

Here's a quick anecdote of how big B&E's are in Richmond; a friend who was broken into on January 2nd noticed that his reference number was 185 or something close. So he asked the reporting cop if that was how many crimes for the new year in the area,, and the cop said , no, that's the number of break ins since the new year for this area.

Just a note; if it takes a theif 3 minutes to break into your home, your home is actually considered very secure. Scary but true.

 

[stan laurel]

dbl post

 

[otto]

I think in AL and KL's frame of mind with the estate sale completed and the move imminent, they had already vacated emotionally from the home if you will and likely did not give any consideration to home safety measures at that time. They subconsciously knew there was nothing of material value left in the home and with all the people coming and going in the home they had already said their goodbye's symbolically and/or figuratively to personal belongings, home and life in Calgary. So I don't think safety was on their minds that night to assure the doors were locked and maybe they were not in the habit of locking doors typically?

That's possible. The sale had been advertised as a "leaving the country" sale and an "estate sale"; where everyone assumes that the good deals are on the afternoon of the third day when nothing should be left behind (estate sale). Perhaps the house was in such disarray that the Liknes couple forgot to check the doors before going to bed. It's also possible that the accused, who has a history with break and enter tools, picked the lock. Being safe might not have been on their minds, but they should have been mindful of the fact that Alvin Liknes had declared bankruptcy that week, and he cleared out his offices that weekend. It's possible that the two desks came from the vacated office, as it does seem like the office contents were part of the estate sale. That is, I didn't see them piled up in the garage photos. Being safe should have made allowances for the possibility that the bankruptcy would result in someone going postal ... not that anyone should expect a former employee to go postal ... but if there was a grudge and perception of betrayal ... postal. Shouldn't everyone that declares bankruptcy be aware of that possibility?

 

[PrincessButtercup]

At a certain point (and getting on in entrepreneur age) one would find their investor sources starting to dwindle, especially after all the other bust ventures. AL's daughter knew some shady's, so did DG,,, in fact as far as a social life for DG, I think criminals is all he knew. Airdrie has some pretty sketchy characters (no offense to Airdriens on this forum),, and why did PG go to a different school than DG,, was it that the parents didn't like the crowd her son met? So many questions.

The reason they went to different schools is that George McDougall was the only high school in Airdrie until 1982 when Bert Church opened. Bert Church would have been closer for PG to attend once it opened.

 

[AltaBorn]

I haven't seen any milk delivery chutes on house. I have seen pictures of the side of the house as well by the garage and don't see any there either.

Growing up in Calgary, some of the homes I have lived in have the milk chute by the back door. I haven't seen any photos of the back door area of the Parkhill home.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Search and Rescue volunteers have been involved in searching for the bodies. The Medical Examiner would not be searching for bodies.

Thanks otto, I wasn't sure

 

[otto]

Growing up in Calgary, some of the homes I have lived in have the milk chute by the back door. I haven't seen any photos of the back door area of the Parkhill home.

The only photos we're seen are the "leaving the country" photos:

http://www.kijiji.ca/o-posters-other-ads/56563739

 

[Lalalacasbah]

In terms of the suspect being able to carry AL versus dismembering at the home which I don't believe was the case imo. What I can empathically say is this. I was in the Cdn military, a female soldier weighing 145lbs and was required to perform a "fireman's carry" of a fellow male soldier who weighed approx. 200 lbs and carry him several hundred feet all the while wearing military kit myself. It is all in how you maneuver the person up and over one's shoulder and it is very easily done even if the person is dead weight so to speak. I really do not believe that suspect dismembered anyone in the home. If that had occurred the original statements by LE would have been different and the forensics would have been more pronounced. Too risky for suspect and not necessary as I can attest to in carrying a 200lb male myself.
http://www.wikihow.com/Do-a-Fireman's-Carry

I don't believe he dismembered them either. IMO, too risky, would take too long, too messy, he would get messier, more risk of cross contamination of his and their DNA at the scene, would need equipment, could get interrupted, and just not enough time and privacy. Now did he do it somewhere else other than their home, possible. I just don't think he would've done it there. And I don't (or maybe hoping) he didn't do it period.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Want to post this respectfully. In googling a link came up to a public memorial page for JO's grandmother and a message from JO.
I think JO as a mother and having witnessed what she did in the home, she instinctively felt her son is with her grandmother in heaven and was looking upwards to heaven during the briefing. So hearbreaking.
http://www.hffs.com/memsol.cgi?page=documents&user_id=484442&MAIN_EVENT=MEMSOL&SUB_EVENT=VIEW_GUESTBOOK

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It was search and rescue that I saw searching before. I also remember on the news them saying thy were helping with the search.

Thank you sublimemumma

 

[otto]

Thanks otto, I wasn't sure

Henry Lee, who was often quoted with Ms Nancy Grace, was a doctor that made huge statements about blood spatter and crime scene analysis. CSI TV's medical examiner seems to only attend death scenes. I came across an article about the medical examiner that was dismissed in Calgary because he was a fraud ... another scenario of failure to check credentials.

Gotta love a scandal ... recent history in the Medical Examiner's Office in Calgary (the problem has since been corrected):

"The family of a Calgary toddler whose death was deemed a “homicide” by a since discredited pathologist is suing the province over its handling of the case.

In a statement of claim filed Wednesday seeking damages approaching $2 million, the family states it was torn apart by the false allegations.

...
“Belenky was not qualified, licensed, formally accredited, or registered to practice as a forensic pathologist in the province of Alberta,” claims the lawsuit, filed by Calgary lawyer Doug Perras.

The boy died on April 4, 2009.

In his certificate of medical examiner filed on July 20, 2010, Belenky “stated that the immediate cause of death to the deceased infant was ‘blunt head injuries,’ and that the manner of death was ‘homicide,’” the claim says.

In his post-mortem report, Belenky detailed an array of injuries, which a review of the autopsy found didn’t exist, it says."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/02/29/family-files-2m-suit-over-botched-autopsy-of-toddler

In terms of checking credentials and requesting proof of degrees, it looks like Calgary has a particularly bad record.

 

[Touchtherapy]

Yes, I thought maybe either a used car sales lot or RV business. An RV involvement could definitely open up a can of worms in this case.

I haven't read through and dont know if this has already been responded to. Currently in that specific location there is a large empty car dealer ship. Its a huge vacant lot with a totally empty and abandoned building. Behind it is the rv sales lot and it may share a yard with a few other industrial type buildings. Ill drive by tomorrow and get a better idea for you guys. Unless in my reading I see its all ready been sorted out. Also...the city view comes out once a week...likely why if it happened on the 19th is was not released until the 24. Airdrie does not have a daily paper.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, I see your point now. Agreed.

I agree also, he must've planned an entrance expecting the house locked. Maybe they left a spare key outside somewhere (back garage)? Probably doubtful, not sure people do that nowadays, but then again every in Calgary leaves their windows open, so maybe!

 

[otto]

I don't believe he dismembered them either. IMO, too risky, would take too long, too messy, he would get messier, more risk of cross contamination of his and their DNA at the scene, would need equipment, could get interrupted, and just not enough time and privacy. Now did he do it somewhere else other than their home, possible. I just don't think he would've done it there. And I don't (or maybe hoping) he didn't do it period.

The bodies went somewhere. Given that there was a "violent incident" where someone was in "medical distress" and the medical examiner attended the scene, it's quite likely that all three were deceased prior to leaving the first crime scene. Police located a second crime scene through the identification of a 92-93 pristine condition green Ford T150 that was seen in the area several times on the night of the murder. The accused had four days prior to the identification of his vehicle in the crime scene area. Although the accused kept a second copy (prior conviction using same name) of false identification papers in his possession, he got rid of the bodies in those four days. I suppose he wouldn't have been in a hurry, as his parents were out of town.

In terms of the scale that is used for psychological assessment (posted upthread), what does it say about someone that they transport three bodies to their parent's home and contemplate how to dispose of the bodies ... murder has two stages: committing the murder, and deciding what to do with the body.

 

[stan laurel]

Henry Lee, who was often quoted with Ms Nancy Grace, was a doctor that made huge statements about blood spatter and crime scene analysis. CSI TV's medical examiner seems to only attend death scenes. I came across an article about the medical examiner that was dismissed in Calgary because he was a fraud ... another scenario of failure to check credentials.

Gotta love a scandal ... recent history in the Medical Examiner's Office in Calgary (the problem has since been corrected):

"The family of a Calgary toddler whose death was deemed a “homicide” by a since discredited pathologist is suing the province over its handling of the case.

In a statement of claim filed Wednesday seeking damages approaching $2 million, the family states it was torn apart by the false allegations.

...
“Belenky was not qualified, licensed, formally accredited, or registered to practice as a forensic pathologist in the province of Alberta,” claims the lawsuit, filed by Calgary lawyer Doug Perras.

The boy died on April 4, 2009.

In his certificate of medical examiner filed on July 20, 2010, Belenky “stated that the immediate cause of death to the deceased infant was ‘blunt head injuries,’ and that the manner of death was ‘homicide,’” the claim says.

In his post-mortem report, Belenky detailed an array of injuries, which a review of the autopsy found didn’t exist, it says."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2012/02/29/family-files-2m-suit-over-botched-autopsy-of-toddler

In terms of checking credentials and requesting proof of degrees, it looks like Calgary has a particularly bad record.

there's also the smith fellow who wrongfully caused conviction of 8 innocent people,, he said at one point that it didn't really matter as they were nobodies anyways. wow eh? talk about psychotic meglomaniacal characters.