Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

[casesensitive]

Absolutely... That's why IMO, they were dead before they left the home. Given that the ME focused his time at the Liknes home, I believe that is where they died, hence being declared legally deceased by the ME.

I agree--I can't see any other explanation for the charges.

 

[casesensitive]

He was caught in the possession of break and enter tools. I read it in some report.

It is listed in the time line.

1992 October 23 – charges listed in BC court registry under file #42183-1-H (against Douglas ROBERT Garland):

FDA - 39(1) Traffic in a controlled drug Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 353(1)(b) possessing automobile master key Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 354 Possession of property obtained by crime Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 90(1) Possession of a prohibited weapon Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert

 

[sublimemumma]

I'm responding to my own post because I didn't realize earlier while typing it out (was in a rush and had to go out) but noticed now while re-reading this page, that it was Calgary Search and Rescue Police that blocked off the area. So maybe I'm overanalyzing, but wouldn't it be Homicide or ME searching, or was CSRP only blocking the area not doing the search? I'm not sure police protocols, or which areas of LE does what, but I would assume if they were searching for bodies would CSRP even be involved at all? Does anyone know?

It was search and rescue that I saw searching before. I also remember on the news them saying thy were helping with the search.

 

[otto]

He was caught in the possession of break and enter tools. I read it in some report.

It is listed in the time line.

1992 October 23 – charges listed in BC court registry under file #42183-1-H (against Douglas ROBERT Garland):

FDA - 39(1) Traffic in a controlled drug Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 353(1)(b) possessing automobile master key Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 351(1) Possess break-in instrument Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 354 Possession of property obtained by crime Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert
CCC - 90(1) Possession of a prohibited weapon Commit GARLAND, DOUGLAS Robert

That might be the answer then ... he had instruments for break in, but there were no signs of a break in, so would that include tools for picking locks?

 

[stan laurel]

It's strange that two diametric opposites met. AL and DG couldn't be more different than apples and centipedes. AL was extroverted,, DG introverted. AL didn't have the security of parents and was raised by his sister,, DG was raised by his parents within the complete security of shelter and finances. AL made best (maybe not the best way but) with what he was afforded, he tried. DG squandered the security and giving of his parents (prior to the crime). AL was a prolific sire. DG had no offspring. AL brought that what he loved into his home. DG took what AL loved out of his home. DG retired AL, AL through death retired DG.

The only thing AL and DG had in common was a social circle of similar nefarious acquaintance and a layman's approach to opportunity via little formal education. They [also] both thumbed their noses at authority, again and again and again; DG kept using the fake ID, AL kept starting and dissolving companies in the same manner over and over and over again. They were weirdly, habitually addicted to their failing's.

This is what goes through my head on how they met. Was it via their friends in the shadows? or just via AL'n and PG?

How does an AL meet a DG? One was a charmer yet I can't see the other easily charmed.

anti-matter met matter.

 

[Shags0sh]

IMO the door was inadvertently left unlocked. The signs for the estate sale were still on the front door, so I'm assuming if they had locked the door, they would have taken their signs down.

 

[Sillybilly]

If all three victims left the house "alive" and against their will, would that not be considered an abduction or kidnapping? Wouldn't that qualify for first-degree murder charges for all three?

This was discussed in earlier threads casesensitive, and at the time I suggested that if NO was removed from the house in the company of either of his grandparents, technically DG would not be removing him from their lawful care and control (thus eliminating the kidnapping of a minor). That same theory was later referred to by a detective (? retired ? can't recall his name but it was linked at the time) as to why the charge in NO's case is 2nd degree.

So, IMO it would seem they have premeditation to justify the 1st degree against the grandparents, but neither premediation or kidnapping wrt Nathan, thus only 2nd degree in his case.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

It's strange that two diametric opposites met. AL and DG couldn't be more different than apples and centipedes. AL was extroverted,, DG introverted. AL didn't have the security of parents and was raised by his sister,, DG was raised by his parents within the complete security of shelter and finances. AL made best (maybe not the best way but) with what he was afforded, he tried. DG squandered the security and giving of his parents (prior to the crime). AL was a prolific sire. DG had no offspring. AL brought that what he loved into his home. DG took what AL loved out of his home. DG retired AL, AL through death retired DG.

The only thing AL and DG had in common was a social circle of similar nefarious acquaintance and a layman's approach to opportunity via little formal education. They [also] both thumbed their noses at authority, again and again and again; DG kept using the fake ID, AL kept starting and dissolving companies in the same manner over and over and over again. They were weirdly, habitually addicted to their failing's.

This is what goes through my head on how they met. Was it via their friends in the shadows? or just via AL'n and PG?

How does an AL meet a DG? One was a charmer yet I can't see the other easily charmed.

anti-matter met matter.

And there you have it, an opening statement for the prosecutor. Brilliant Stan and so so poetically accurate.

 

[casesensitive]

This was discussed in earlier threads casesensitive, and at the time I suggested that if NO was removed from the house in the company of either of his grandparents, technically DG would not be removing him from their lawful care and control (thus eliminating the kidnapping of a minor). That same theory was later referred to by a detective (? retired ? can't recall his name but it was linked at the time) as to why the charge in NO's case is 2nd degre

So, IMO it would seem they have premeditation to justify the 1st degree against the grandparents, but neither premediation or kidnapping wrt Nathan, thus only 2nd degree in his case.

Thanks sillybilly, I missed that discussion for some reason.

 

[stan laurel]

He was caught in the possession of break and enter tools. I read it in some report.

It is listed in the time line.

1992 October 23 – charges listed in BC court registry under file #42183-1-H (against Douglas ROBERT Garland):

So we can easily assume that from the methamphetamine charges that DG likely was in contact with a funding group like say the H.A or Grim Reapers.

With the B&E charges, he was likely in contact with a fence, someone who'd pay him for his thefts.

Pure speculation, but maybe AL's daughter - who was shot for uncontrollable crime debts - connected DG to her father. And a further speculation is that maybe it wasn't the matter of a patent dispute but rather DG intro'ing AL to some quick high interest cash to start his next enterprise,, Winter failed, the backers put the heat on DG and DG in turn put the heat on AL.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

IMO the door was inadvertently left unlocked. The signs for the estate sale were still on the front door, so I'm assuming if they had locked the door, they would have taken their signs down.

I think in AL and KL's frame of mind with the estate sale completed and the move imminent, they had already vacated emotionally from the home if you will and likely did not give any consideration to home safety measures at that time. They subconsciously knew there was nothing of material value left in the home and with all the people coming and going in the home they had already said their goodbye's symbolically and/or figuratively to personal belongings, home and life in Calgary. So I don't think safety was on their minds that night to assure the doors were locked and maybe they were not in the habit of locking doors typically?

 

[otto]

This was discussed in earlier threads casesensitive, and at the time I suggested that if NO was removed from the house in the company of either of his grandparents, technically DG would not be removing him from their lawful care and control (thus eliminating the kidnapping of a minor). That same theory was later referred to by a detective (? retired ? can't recall his name but it was linked at the time) as to why the charge in NO's case is 2nd degree.

So, IMO it would seem they have premeditation to justify the 1st degree against the grandparents, but neither premediation or kidnapping wrt Nathan, thus only 2nd degree in his case.

When it is planned and deliberate, it is first degree murder. When it is not planned and deliberate, it is second degree murder. The accused went to the house for the purpose of planned and deliberate murder. Were it not for that, he would not have murdered Nathan. Therefore, he did not plan to deliberately murder Nathan ... that makes it second degree ... that's the best I can figure out from reading the description.

I also read through the exceptions in first degree murder, and didn't see anything about kidnapping. That is, it doesn't seem like "kidnapping" constituted first degree murder ... maybe someone can check ... I sometimes skim.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html

 

[appleeye]

When it is planned and deliberate, it is first degree murder. When it is not planned and deliberate, it is second degree murder. The accused went to the house for the purpose of planned and deliberate murder. Were it not for that, he would not have murdered Nathan. Therefore, he did not plan to deliberately murder Nathan ... that makes it second degree ... that's the best I can figure out from reading the description.

I also read through the exceptions in first degree murder, and didn't see anything about kidnapping. That is, it doesn't seem like "kidnapping" constituted first degree murder ... maybe someone can check ... I sometimes skim.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html

If I were reading that, this is the quote that I would say would make me think kidnapping could tip the scale for 1st degree charges
(5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
(b) section 271 (sexual assault);
(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).

 

[AltaBorn]

Is this the correct location?

When I saw the police officers/cruisers parked and blocking the road on July 19 they were right at the intersection north of your yellow circle. But were only blocking the road you have the yellow circle on. People were able to travel on East Lake Ramp NE.

 

[stan laurel]

I think in AL and KL's frame of mind with the estate sale completed and the move imminent, they had already vacated emotionally from the home if you will and likely did not give any consideration to home safety measures at that time. They subconsciously knew there was nothing of material value left in the home and with all the people coming and going in the home they had already said their goodbye's symbolically and/or figuratively to personal belongings, home and life in Calgary. So I don't think safety was on their minds that night to assure the doors were locked and maybe they were not in the habit of locking doors typically?

That would throw a wrench into the pre-meditated part. IF DG had a plan, he couldn't plan for a door left by chance unlocked. On this notion he could use the defense that he was casing the place for a B&E, discovered the door unlocked and met AL unexpectedly, reacted and went beserk. If it was pre-meditated, he knew that he was getting in and also knew how to get in or had a key.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

In the LE photo of the green truck can anyone who has seen the photos of google earth views of the street compare something that has me wondering. In the attached pic, the grassy area on the home beside the side walk looks like it is very early spring versus summer grass growth. It could be the house's current yard state but the pic has me questioning if it is earlier in the springtime. If this picture is of an earlier time in the year when grass hadn't grown yet, then maybe as some have speculated that this wasn't the first time the green truck was scouting the neighborhood.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1445696/timeline-missing-calgary-family-nathan-obrien-alvin-and-kathryn-liknes/
N.B. I do see the evergreens across the street and smaller shrubs but the grassy area beside the sidewalk has me perplexed.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

That would throw a wrench into the pre-meditated part. IF DG had a plan, he couldn't plan for a door left by chance unlocked. On this notion he could use the defense that he was casing the place for a B&E, discovered the door unlocked and met AL unexpectedly, reacted and went beserk. If it was pre-meditated, he knew that he was getting in and also knew how to get in or had a key.

Yes, I see your point now. Agreed.

 

[stan laurel]

In the LE photo of the green truck can anyone who has seen the photos of google earth views of the street compare something that has me wondering. In the attached pic, the grassy area on the home beside the side walk looks like it is very early spring versus summer grass growth. It could be the house's current yard state but the pic has me questioning if it is earlier in the springtime. If this picture is of an earlier time in the year when grass hadn't grown yet, then maybe as some have speculated that this wasn't the first time the green truck was scouting the neighborhood.
View attachment 55682

http://globalnews.ca/news/1445696/timeline-missing-calgary-family-nathan-obrien-alvin-and-kathryn-liknes/

Otto, has the pics and it should be noted that Calgary only recently is starting to look normally yellow and beige again (the provincial colour is flat beige). Our very wet spring made for an oddly lush early summer. The foothills part of the province looked like hills and dells of Ireland not a week ago.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Otto, has the pics and it should be noted that Calgary only recently is starting to look normally yellow and beige again (the provincial colour is flat beige). Our very wet spring made for an oddly lush early summer. The foothills part of the province looked like hills and dells of Ireland not a week ago.

http://article.wn.com/view/2014/07/16/Douglas_Garland_in_court_Liknes_family_speaks/
Here is another picture. Looks very patchy the grass for June-July but I am not from Alberta.

 

[stan laurel]

View attachment 55683
http://article.wn.com/view/2014/07/16/Douglas_Garland_in_court_Liknes_family_speaks/
Here is another picture. Looks very patchy the grass for June-July but I am not from Alberta.

that is likely scrub weeds thru the gravel from the house that is being built on the street and where the cctv pic came from. in another pic the landscaping isn't finished - or started - on that property, so it's more than likely patchy weeds