Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[news.talk]

So if the evidence from the impersonation charges will be used for the murder case, does that mean that it is also evidence linking DG to the murders?

It depends entirely what said evidence is - If he was found to have one of the victims bank cards for example, he may have trouble explaining why he was in possession of such an item.

If he was only caught with MH's identification, then the Crown can show a pattern of fraud and evading arrest.

We won't know until trial how these charges fit.

 

[wendiesan]

Transcript of news report regarding the Calgary Police Service sending investigators to Mexico.
This is not an official draft, and is not connected to any of the participants.
This is a rough draft, and all errors are my own.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1492641/s...ther&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

Global News
News Hour Calgary
August 5, 2014

News Anchor=Linda Olsen= LO Field Reporter = Reid Feist - RF Neighbour= Al (preferred not to have his last name known)

Investigation into missing Calgary family moves to Mexico.

LO: It has been over a month since the disappearance and presumed murders of a little boy and his grandparents. And even though police have charged their accused killer, they are no closer to finding the bodies of Nathan O'Brien, and Alvin and Kathryn Liknes. Now their investigation has taken them out of the country. Our Reid Feist is at the former Liknes's home in Parkhill. And, Reid, police sent investigators to Mexico.

RF: That's right, Linda, but they aren't saying exactly why they went there or if they found anything or exactly where in Mexico they went. Now, we do know that Kathryn and Alvin Liknes had purchased a home, we understand, in the Mazatlan area. So, we can only assume, perhaps, that that's where investigators went. Again, though, police aren't commenting much more than confirming their investigation taking them to Mexico to cover all of their bases.

Now the Liknes's had sold this Parkhill home many months ago, and they were renting it back from the new owner with the plan to spend at least part of their year in the Mexico area.

Back here in Calgary, I can tell you over the last couple of weeks the inside of the home, or at least what we can see through the windows has changed significantly. It appears that the remaining furniture in the home has been removed. And, one of the neighbours we spoke to this afternoon confirms that.

Al: The moving truck was here, and I came over and talked to the man, and he said "do you want to see the inside of the house", and I says, "well OK". So he showed me around and I noticed that the rug was picked up and there was a lot of cleaning on the wall and what have you. And the reason why the moving truck was here was because the sale in his words "didn't go that well" and so he was movin' this out and I says "is it goin' to an auction" and he says "no, it's going into storage"

LO: And Reid, police are still carrying out extensive searches in the Calgary area and beyond.

RF: That's right, so not only has this taken them now to Mexico, but the police did confirm to me today that they did complete some searches in the Calgary and Alberta area as recently as this long weekend. Although they're not saying exactly what they were looking for, or where, now not much has been said since mid-July. And that is, of course, when Douglas Garland was charged with two counts of first degree murder and one count of second degree murder. In the deaths of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes and Nathan O'Brien. Douglas Garland is set to make his next court appearance next Thursday at the Calgary Court Centre.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

It depends entirely what said evidence is - If he was found to have one of the victims bank cards for example, he may have trouble explaining why he was in possession of such an item.

If he was only caught with MH's identification, then the Crown can show a pattern of fraud and evading arrest.

We won't know until trial how these charges fit.

I wonder if he was using MH's ID to make some purchases relating to the crime. It is possible that he could have even opened a bank account in MH name and obtained a bank card to make any purchases more difficult to trace.

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder if he was using MH's ID to make some purchases relating to the crime. It is possible that he could have even opened a bank account in MH name and obtained a bank card to make any purchases more difficult to trace.

I'm thinking the reference to the "stolen" bank card indicates it was just that ... stolen. Had he opened a bank account in MH's name and obtained a bank card in MH's name, I think that would constitute part of the identity theft and fraud as opposed to stolen. IMO, stolen indicates it was something that was the property of another living individual (not something obtained through misrepresentation in the name of a deceased person. IOW, as MH was not alive to ever be in possession of the card, it was not stolen from him).

 

[news.talk]

I'm thinking the reference to the "stolen" bank card indicates it was just that ... stolen. Had he opened a bank account in MH's name and obtained a bank card in MH's name, I think that would constitute part of the identity theft and fraud as opposed to stolen. IMO, stolen indicates it was something that was the property of another living individual (not something obtained through misrepresentation in the name of a deceased person. IOW, as MH was not alive to ever be in possession of the card, it was not stolen from him).

As reported, there are two charges that were stayed - Identity theft and Possession of a stolen bank card.

I tend to agree with you that the second charge is not related to the first. I would further suggest that it is this second charge that relates to the triple homicide. As I have theorized, I believe that the suspect was found to be on possession of one of the deceased bank cards. That alone would be extremely compelling evidence and a reason to stay the charges.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

As reported, there are two charges that were stayed - Identity theft and Possession of a stolen bank card.

I tend to agree with you that the second charge is not related to the first. I would further suggest that it is this second charge that relates to the triple homicide. As I have theorized, I believe that the suspect was found to be on possession of one of the deceased bank cards. That alone would be extremely compelling evidence and a reason to stay the charges.

If it were the victims cards or ID, would the Crown have agreed to such a low bail, especially given his flight history? That would be a very incriminating piece of evidence.

"Garland was charged with identity theft and possessing a bank card obtained by crime after police released him without charges following his interview in the missing-persons case.

The identity he allegedly was using was in the name of an Alberta teen who died in a 1980 crash..."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/1...-disappearance-of-calgary-family-granted-bail


Different articles seem to use different descriptions of the charges.

 

[news.talk]

If it were the victims cards or ID, would the Crown have agreed to such a low bail, especially given his flight history? That would be a very incriminating piece of evidence.

It would if they wanted him out on bail so they could see where he leads them. Additionally, at that time, they had not officially declared this a homicide. If the theory is true, all he could be charged with was unlawful possession of a bank card.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

"WHAT IS POSSESSION OF PROPERTY OBTAINED BY CRIME UNDER THE CRIMINAL CODE OF CANADA?

Under the Criminal Code of Canada, every one commits an offence who has in his possession any property or thing or any proceeds of any property or thing knowing that all or part of the property or thing or of the proceeds was obtained by or derived directly or indirectly from (a) the commission in Canada of an offence punishable by indictment; or (b) an act or omission anywhere that, if it had occurred in Canada, would have constituted an offence punishable by indictment"

http://www.aelaw.ca/charges/possession-of-property-obtained-by-crime/

It doesn't necessarily mean the bank card was "stolen". It also could have been obtained using a false identity. It could be some MSM outlets assumed it was a stolen card. Every article I read today about the stayed charges included that they were "unrelated" to the disappearances. Lots of semantics in this...

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-p...-case-of-missing-trio-1.1946871#ixzz39ZqzxVmH

At 1:00 of this news clip, the reporter says the crown asked for the "charges of impersonation and the fraudulent credit card be stayed".

 

[otto]

I'm curious about the joint ownership of the property in Mexico by Garland and Liknes. At a press conference, one of the Liknes children mentioned that it was a joint family purchase, but I had assumed that it was Liknes children and parents. If it was a Garland/Liknes purchase, that may factor into motive. My first question would be: were both names on title? My next question would be whether the Garland in question is the sister of Douglas, or whether the money came from the owners of the Airdrie acreage. If the money came from the owners of the acreage, I could see that as being a problem for Douglas.

 

[Krystine]

Wouldn't this neighbor had to have known the house real well to even notice/make mention of a rug being picked up? Like a big area rug? IMO it would make more sense for a large portion of carpet to have been cut out somewhere. Although the article is written very poorly, I get the sense by what this neighbor is quoted as saying, that maybe English isn't his first language..........eg) a lot of cleaning on the wall. That being said, a little difficult to really interpret (again, based on poorly written article) what he was really saying.

Shame on the "man" who offered to allow neighbor to snoop around inside, if for no other reason than to just be a lookie-loo. How disrespectful and sick, IMO.

A lot of people use 'rug', referring to carpet out west. When I heard the quote I visualized a section of wall to wall carpet removed, exposing the subfloor.
And I agree, it was disgusting for the mover to offer, and very tacky for the neighbour to accept.

 

[Cherchri]

As reported, there are two charges that were stayed - Identity theft and Possession of a stolen bank card.

I tend to agree with you that the second charge is not related to the first. I would further suggest that it is this second charge that relates to the triple homicide. As I have theorized, I believe that the suspect was found to be on possession of one of the deceased bank cards. That alone would be extremely compelling evidence and a reason to stay the charges.

I went on about this ad infinitum and was shouted down. I still believe he was in possession of a card or cards belonging to his victims which would provide LE very solid evidence of his culpability.

 

[deugirtni]

If the Mexico property were jointly owned by AL/KL and Garland.. that could very well mean DG's sister, who is in effect, one of the Liknes' children, through marriage to AL's son.

I'm curious about the joint ownership of the property in Mexico by Garland and Liknes. At a press conference, one of the Liknes children mentioned that it was a joint family purchase, but I had assumed that it was Liknes children and parents. ........

 

[deugirtni]

If that were the case, then DG would have surely been charged and detained, and likely withOUT bail, in relation to the disappearance. As you said, that would be very solid and damning evidence against him. But yet in numerous news reports, those charges were stated as being unrelated to the missing persons' case. IMHO, I believe that LE will simply bring that in to being a part of the L testimony, as a means to say DG was presenting to LE a false identity when LE came looking for him, in order to escape. MOO. (Isn't that kind of nuts though, because surely anyone would know that the stolen identity person would be forever linked in LE records with DG's name? I am pretty sure that LE records show 'aliases'.)

I went on about this ad infinitum and was shouted down. I still believe he was in possession of a card or cards belonging to his victims which would provide LE very solid evidence of his culpability.

 

[Cherchri]

If that were the case, then DG would have surely been charged and detained, and likely withOUT bail, in relation to the disappearance. As you said, that would be very solid and damning evidence against him. But yet in numerous news reports, those charges were stated as being unrelated to the missing persons' case. IMHO, I believe that LE will simply bring that in to being a part of the L testimony, as a means to say DG was presenting to LE a false identity when LE came looking for him, in order to escape. MOO. (Isn't that kind of nuts though, because surely anyone would know that the stolen identity person would be forever linked in LE records with DG's name? I am pretty sure that LE records show 'aliases'.)

Possession of their card(s) alone, would not be irrefutable evidence of murder but regardless, it was used to detain him longer. In conjunction with the truck being caught on camera and any other evidence in the form of DNA (his and theirs) in the Parkhill residence plus evidence gathered on the Airdrie acreage would go beyond circumstantial. Yes nuts. The whole matter is nuts and it's driving me nuts.

 

[Cherchri]

This was the article that got me stirred up about the bank card. This reporter did a good job of summarizing events to that point and was careful to quote LE verbatim eg "Violent incident". Because of that I gave (give) this article some credence. I don't think we have a live clip of LE making specific reference to the card do we? If not, it's down to one reporter's interpretation over another's.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1440571/person-of-interest-in-missing-calgary-family-to-appear-in-court/

 

[kanga]

It would be pretty weird and difficult, in a scenario like this, for Mom to say "oh look at him, he's asleep, I'm not going to wake him up, he can just spend the night and I'll be back in the morning".........would you expect AL or KL to be adamant and tell Mom "no, please wake him up and take him home"?

My mother would not hesitate to tell me to wake my kids up and take them home if it wasn't a good night for her to have them sleep over.

ETA: Sorry, that was kind of random. I forgot I was a few pages behind when I posted this reply.

 

[winnnancy]

Wouldn't this neighbor had to have known the house real well to even notice/make mention of a rug being picked up? Like a big area rug? IMO it would make more sense for a large portion of carpet to have been cut out somewhere. Although the article is written very poorly, I get the sense by what this neighbor is quoted as saying, that maybe English isn't his first language..........eg) a lot of cleaning on the wall. That being said, a little difficult to really interpret (again, based on poorly written article) what he was really saying.

Shame on the "man" who offered to allow neighbor to snoop around inside, if for no other reason than to just be a lookie-loo. How disrespectful and sick, IMO.

Where does that put all of us WSers? This horrific crime happened in this mans "own backyard" , to people he knew and likely lived next door to. Perhaps he's wondering how he hadn't heard anything or berating himself thinking he should have....

 

[otto]

If the Mexico property were jointly owned by AL/KL and Garland.. that could very well mean DG's sister, who is in effect, one of the Liknes' children, through marriage to AL's son.

I suppose that would mean that the property is in the names of the Liknes couple, their son, and his common law wife. If she put her own money into the property, I'm wondering if she got an advance from her parents or if she had simply saved enough. What I'm thinking is that if the sister of Douglas borrowed money (inheritance advance) from her parents to put into a condo where the Liknes couple would live for the next year, Douglas might view that as the couple dipping into his family finances for their own comfortable lifestyle.

Condos in Mazatlan are not cheap: http://www.solutionsmazatlan.com/Mazatlan_Condos_For_Sale/page_2250858.html

 

[otto]

If that were the case, then DG would have surely been charged and detained, and likely withOUT bail, in relation to the disappearance. As you said, that would be very solid and damning evidence against him. But yet in numerous news reports, those charges were stated as being unrelated to the missing persons' case. IMHO, I believe that LE will simply bring that in to being a part of the L testimony, as a means to say DG was presenting to LE a false identity when LE came looking for him, in order to escape. MOO. (Isn't that kind of nuts though, because surely anyone would know that the stolen identity person would be forever linked in LE records with DG's name? I am pretty sure that LE records show 'aliases'.)

"Garland was originally arrested on identity theft charges but Crown Prosecutor, Shane Parker, says he has requested those charges be stayed.

“The evidence from the impersonation will be used as part of the murder case so there was no need to have separate proceedings,” said Parker."

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-p...-case-of-missing-trio-1.1946871#ixzz39d8UYUsM