Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #12

[PrincessButtercup]

So do you think the Garlands relationship to their son is worth exploring? Not because they're guilty of anything but because they were the two people closest to him.

I think when terrible crimes happen it is natural for people to want to understand what makes a person capable of committing an act that the majority of society finds abhorrent. DG's parents are a part of that picture.

 

[julydarling]

So do you think the Garlands relationship to their son is worth exploring? Not because they're guilty of anything but because they were the two people closest to him.

Personally? Yes. I think that every single family member victim or perp side is being looked at. Not because there are other guilty parties but because this seems to be quite a tangled web that has been woven.

 

[Leeman68]

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...ct=rc&uact=3&dur=2816&page=5&start=84&ndsp=23

Link to a picture of the condo that appears to be a match.

Looks like that matches the photo. The real estate listing for that building shows a 2 bedroom for $120,000 USD. Very affordable !!

http://www.solutionsmazatlan.com/Ma..._Zone/Zona_Dorada/Agent/Listing_76478312.html

MLS $120,000 USD 2 bedroom - a real deal!

 

[otto]

What about all the comments about the victims running off to Mexico with their grandson? That's accusing them of a most despicable crime.

There were indeed several posts questioning why police are in Mexico. One line of discussion was about the possibility that the family is in Mexico. We know that isn't true, but that will be one defence argument. If police do not rule out the possibility, that will be the defence. Police have to get more information about the condo for at least that reason, but that could be ruled out by local police. Therefore, there must be something more to it.

Given the recent bankruptcy, the shell company in Panama (a tax shelter country), and the dozen construction, and oil/gas, companies that popped up and disappeared over the last 15 years, police may be doing a parallel investigation into the Liknes finances. Also, since the Mazatlan property is a joint ownership between the Liknes/Garland families, the accused is Garland, the victim is Liknes, it seems logical that police have to explore whether this business deal relates to the murder. We know that Garland thought he should be named co-inventor on a patent, and was upset that his name was not included. The family describes this as a "petty" complaint. Is the Garland name included on the title of the Mazatlan property. If not, that could also relate to motive.

Although the Liknes couple are victims, we know this was a targeted, pre-meditated murder, and that the accused had something in his head that made him so angry he decided to murder the couple rather than allow them to retire in a condo jointly owned by Liknes/Garland in Mazatlan.

 

[studyer]

In what way are the parents of a 54 year old accused murder related to the murders?

What about the fact that they own the property on which he has been living, and which is now a crime scene? Or that he was using his father's (?) email address for business communication? So wouldn't LE have tried to determine what they might know, how involved they were in his finances, etc. Not with the purposes of implicating them, but rather to see what additional clues could be found there.

 

[LoisLane]

What about the fact that they own the property on which he has been living, and which is now a crime scene? Or that he was using his father's (?) email address for business communication? So wouldn't LE have tried to determine what they might know, how involved they were in his finances, etc. Not with the purposes of implicating them, but rather to see what additional clues could be found there.

I am confident that LE covered that during the investigation at the Garland property. The parents would have been questioned, most definetly.

 

[ABro]

Although the Liknes couple are victims, we know this was a targeted, pre-meditated murder, and that the accused had something in his head that made him so angry he decided to murder the couple rather than allow them to retire in a condo jointly owned by Liknes/Garland in Mazatlan.

And I would like to know more about that anger and how the people closest to him dealt with it.

 

[otto]

What about the fact that they own the property on which he has been living, and which is now a crime scene? Or that he was using his father's (?) email address for business communication? So wouldn't LE have tried to determine what they might know, how involved they were in his finances, etc. Not with the purposes of implicating them, but rather to see what additional clues could be found there.

I have no doubt that police have interviewed extended family of the accused.

 

[Cherchri]

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=...ct=rc&uact=3&dur=2816&page=5&start=84&ndsp=23

Link to a picture of the condo that appears to be a match.

Well done Penny except I think you'll find that this condo belongs to the twin brother. If you check KL's pics they are from a while ago when they were visiting AL's twin and family. Yes I just checked and the photo caption is AL (twin) and FL's condo. So not the one the victims purportedly purchased.

 

[Snoop Sister]

What about the fact that they own the property on which he has been living, and which is now a crime scene? Or that he was using his father's (?) email address for business communication? So wouldn't LE have tried to determine what they might know, how involved they were in his finances, etc. Not with the purposes of implicating them, but rather to see what additional clues could be found there.

How do you know it was DG's fathers email? Link please.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

How do you know it was DG's fathers email? Link please.

There have been several links posted with regards to it being AG's email, you'll likely have to go back and look.

 

[otto]

And I would like to know more about that anger and how the people closest to him dealt with it.

I don't know if it's ever possible to get inside the mind of a mass murderer, to understand their anger/rage, or to find a way to deal with it.

 

[Cherchri]

I don't know if it's ever possible to get inside the mind of a mass murderer, to understand their anger/rage, or to find a way to deal with it.

This is unrelated but a very interesting read Ito understanding what it's like to parent someone with mental problems
http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

 

[Sillybilly]

If that were the case, then DG would have surely been charged and detained, and likely withOUT bail, in relation to the disappearance. As you said, that would be very solid and damning evidence against him. But yet in numerous news reports, those charges were stated as being unrelated to the missing persons' case.

<rs&bbm>

I posted much earlier about the wording "unrelated to the missing persons case", and provided a link to where the various MSM reports were ambiguous in that regard. Some articles refer to "two identity theft offences", others break it down into the identity theft AND stolen (or possession? / or obtained by crime?) bank card.

Just some of those ambiguities (all of which are reporter interpretation, and none of which have a direct quote from the Crown or LE):

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-police-search-landfill-1.2701030

Garland made his second court appearance Wednesday on a charge of identity theft unrelated to the investigation.

from that same article:

Garland faces charges of identity theft and unlawfully possessing a bank card. The charges are unrelated to the missing persons investigation.

from:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nathan-obrien-amber-alert-police-142846185.html

Garland, 54, has been in custody since last Friday on a charge of identity theft unrelated to the missing family investigation. He faces charges of identity theft and unlawfully possessing a bank card.

from:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/from-d...d-map-of-key-events-in-calgary-case-1.1904896

On July 7, Garland appears in court on unrelated charges stemming from his use of a false identity in the 1990s, when he lived in British Columbia.

and from that same article:

Meanwhile, person of interest Douglas Garland appears in court via closed-circuit camera on an identity-theft charge unrelated to the missing persons case

from:
http://www.leaderpost.com/news/Person+interest+released+bail/10024557/story.html

Garland had been held at the Calgary Remand Centre on the two identity-theft offences unrelated to the missing persons case.

So, without a direct quote, it's still clear as mud, eh?

 

[news.talk]

I posted much earlier about the wording "unrelated to the missing persons case", and provided a link to where the various MSM reports were ambiguous in that regard. Some articles refer to "two identity theft offences", others break it down into the identity theft AND stolen (or possession? / or obtained by crime?) bank card.

Just some of those ambiguities (all of which are reporter interpretation, and none of which have a direct quote from the Crown or LE):

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-police-search-landfill-1.2701030



from that same article:



from:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nathan-obrien-amber-alert-police-142846185.html



from:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/from-d...d-map-of-key-events-in-calgary-case-1.1904896



and from that same article:


from:
http://www.leaderpost.com/news/Person+interest+released+bail/10024557/story.html



So, without a direct quote, it's still clear as mud, eh?

I agree - What charge or charges are "unrelated" is unclear. Based on my experience, I interpreted that the identity theft charge is unrelated but the possessing a stolen bank card is directly related to the homicide, hence the staying of charges and Crown Prosecutor's comments.

 

[ABro]

I don't know if it's ever possible to get inside the mind of a mass murderer, to understand their anger/rage, or to find a way to deal with it.

There are a great number of excellent books and articles on this subject.

Here is an amazing article by Andrew Solomon on the Lanza parents: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/17/the-reckoning

 

[ABro]

This is unrelated but a very interesting read Ito understanding what it's like to parent someone with mental problems
http://gawker.com/5968818/i-am-adam-lanzas-mother

I find that article appalling and always have.

Instead I recommend this amazing piece on the Lanzas

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/17/the-reckoning

 

[Cherchri]

<rs&bbm>

I posted much earlier about the wording "unrelated to the missing persons case", and provided a link to where the various MSM reports were ambiguous in that regard. Some articles refer to "two identity theft offences", others break it down into the identity theft AND stolen (or possession? / or obtained by crime?) bank card.

Just some of those ambiguities (all of which are reporter interpretation, and none of which have a direct quote from the Crown or LE):

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-amber-alert-police-search-landfill-1.2701030



from that same article:



from:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nathan-obrien-amber-alert-police-142846185.html



from:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/from-d...d-map-of-key-events-in-calgary-case-1.1904896



and from that same article:


from:
http://www.leaderpost.com/news/Person+interest+released+bail/10024557/story.html



So, without a direct quote, it's still clear as mud, eh?

Thank you for taking the time to do that SillyBilly and in so doing underscoring what I said. If no live report from LE/Crown, then all words chosen by those writing the stories and not necessarily accurate.

 

[Cherchri]

I find that article appalling and always have.

Instead I recommend this amazing piece on the Lanzas

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/17/the-reckoning

Appalling perhaps but gives the insight I suggested. I have read the article you suggest too. It does not IMO give the insights relative to Otto's remark regarding understanding the rage/anger.

 

[news.talk]

I find that article appalling and always have.

Instead I recommend this amazing piece on the Lanzas

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/17/the-reckoning

What is so appalling? It is a mother with a child that has severe emotional, behavioural and mental disorders, trying to shed some light on the struggles parents of these children face. So many people are quick to impose "poor parenting" as the cause without understanding the illness.

Personality, I found her story brave.