Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[Krystine]

unless the field was fallow that season?

I have heard of summer-fallow. Does that mean giving the land a rest for a planting season? Ploughed and then it remains dormant?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Are there any links to information about how chemicals, and/or incineration, is used to make a body completely disappear? The one link that has been posted several times has problems with facts, and no references. We have to include the facts with the theory, so incineration temperature is a factor. Open fires on the prairies are not realistic, and extremely high temperatures are not realistic. Putting things down the drain is not an option because there is a septic tank and field.

What is a feasible theory based on chemicals/incineration ... one that includes valid links?

I have a hard time digesting the chemical/incineration idea for the same reasoning as you otto, although with twisted thinkings of DG, still possible. My main concern is time and risk, and again, feels like a way messier process. My spouse mentioned some chemicals dissolve steel so it wouldn't be time consuming, but not sure DG would've exposed himself and his parents environment to something so high grade and dangerous? But then again, he had drug making equipment in their shed in the 90s so who really knows what this guy would do.

 

[Krystine]

I'm just using your quote to outline something that we've forgotten; Alberta had an extremely wet Spring (talked to some farmers in the S end of the province who received 9 inches in 72 hours). Forestry Trunk Roads, Crown Land/Lease Land - even the ones graded and maintained - are as slick as a well soiled diaper, 4WD and a winch is a must. It would be foolhardy to even chance it and tow trucks called sometimes call other tow trucks. As for mine shafts that are abandoned, they are very sketchy and most of the gypsum and coal shafts have been blocked (if it were the 70's, this would be different).
.

moving water such as the lower Bow at Bassano/Brooks, or even the Red Deer River which is not only swift but covers stuff with silt very quickly.

There must have been a good reason for AL junior to say what he did about DG's old truck not being a 4WD, and that his search would cover township roads and ditches, not venturing into the fields.
Perhaps it was from what he had from LE about probabilities. After making that statement to Global news, he set off on his motorcycle down that lonely side road. I felt so bad for the man, what a terrible task. I hope it proved therapeutic in some way for him.

 

[stan laurel]

I have heard of summer-fallow. Does that mean giving the land a rest for a planting season? Ploughed and then it remains dormant?

yes, to help replenish nitrates. some fields are also protected wetlands and grasslands.

 

[LoisLane]

Seeing as we are touching on hiding spots again I would like to ellaborate more on the potential for an underground shelter. I have no doubt in my mind that a person such as DG would be able to acheive and make use of such a space for various reasons.

Here is simple explanation of a project that I am aware of that has recently been built in the Calgary area, on a small acreage. I know the owner, and the architect, and am able to offer this decription. The house and workshop are designed as 2 buildings. For ease of access and use the 2 basements of the buildings are connected by a tunnel. Above grade the tunnel is covered by dirt and sidewalks, so from the outside you are unaware that the buildings are connected. From inside the house, it would be a simple extra step to make the tunnel access inside the house also concealed. This can be done by a concealed wall panel, door, or hidden behind cabinetry. Currently, you can go from the house basement to the shop basement by walking thru the tunnel. Materials that can be used are pressure treated wood that could be used below grade, or a metal culvert that is also designed to be buried or some other similar material or structure.

I think DG is perfectly capable of building something similar on the Airdrie property. If the parents enjoy travelling and leave for extended periods of time he would be able to do this without their knowledge. This can also be done with very little money and without an architect. All you really need is someone that has a general understanding of structure or who has been involved in building would be able to put something like this together.

 

[Cherchri]

Are there any links to information about how chemicals, and/or incineration, is used to make a body completely disappear? The one link that has been posted several times has problems with facts, and no references. We have to include the facts with the theory, so incineration temperature is a factor. Open fires on the prairies are not realistic, and extremely high temperatures are not realistic. Putting things down the drain is not an option because there is a septic tank and field.

What is a feasible theory based on chemicals/incineration ... one that includes valid links?

I posted numerous links at your request earlier... Did you miss them? I shared the outcome of a specific trial of a Mexican who used this disposal method for over 300 bodies. There was extensive coverage of his trial. There is no need to agree with my hypothesis but I hold firm on my belief that DG disposed of his victims this way. We may have to wait a really long time to find out if I am right. So be it! Here is yet another link for your perusal.... http://grind365.com/news/true-crime/mexican-kingpin-el-teo-captured/ and another http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nes-home-Mexican-drug-cartels-Stew-maker.html and a link to a book - follow the link to the heading Stewmaker excerpt...http://books.google.ca/books?id=0QM...posed of hundreds of bodies using lye&f=false

 

[Cherchri]

An excerpt from the following link "About the same, with the right chemicals and equipment. The assassins typically use sodium hydroxide or potassium hydroxide, strong bases commonly known as lye. (The Times story misidentified their reagent of choice as an acid.) Heated to 300 degrees, a lye solution can turn a body into tan liquid with the consistency of mineral oil in just three hours. If your kettle isn’t pressurized, you won’t be able to heat the solution much above the boiling point of water, 212 degrees, and it might take an additional hour or two to complete the process. Narco-hit men did not pioneer this technique. Adolph Luetgert, known in his day as the “Sausage King of Chicago,” dumped his wife into a boiling vat of lye in 1897, then burned what was left. Police eventually found bone fragments in the factory’s furnace."
http://www.tarborotimes.com/2014/04/13/weird-news-how-to-dissolve-a-human-body-in-acid/

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Seeing as we are touching on hiding spots again I would like to ellaborate more on the potential for an underground shelter. I have no doubt in my mind that a person such as DG would be able to acheive and make use of such a space for various reasons.

Here is simple explanation of a project that I am aware of that has recently been built in the Calgary area, on a small acreage. I know the owner, and the architect, and am able to offer this decription. The house and workshop are designed as 2 buildings. For ease of access and use the 2 basements of the buildings are connected by a tunnel. Above grade the tunnel is covered by dirt and sidewalks, so from the outside you are unaware that the buildings are connected. From inside the house, it would be a simple extra step to make the tunnel access inside the house also concealed. This can be done by a concealed wall panel, door, or hidden behind cabinetry. Currently, you can go from the house basement to the shop basement by walking thru the tunnel. Materials that can be used are pressure treated wood that could be used below grade, or a metal culvert that is also designed to be buried or some other similar material or structure.

I think DG is perfectly capable of building something similar on the Airdrie property. If the parents enjoy travelling and leave for extended periods of time he would be able to do this without their knowledge. This can also be done with very little money and without an architect. All you really need is someone that has a general understanding of structure or who has been involved in building would be able to put something like this together.

I could see DG having a private project of sorts like this too. If he's learned from his past mistakes in law breaking I could see him having a back up plan or stash location of sorts. I keep bringing up location brainstorms because I want these 3 brought home somehow soon and hope they're not forgotten because the media will tend to focus on DG, so sorry if I keep bringing up location hunting here, it just bothers me they're not confirmed found by LE :-(

 

[LoisLane]

There must have been a good reason for AL junior to say what he did about DG's old truck not being a 4WD, and that his search would cover township roads and ditches, not venturing into the fields.
Perhaps it was from what he had from LE about probabilities. After making that statement to Global news, he set off on his motorcycle down that lonely side road. I felt so bad for the man, what a terrible task. I hope it proved therapeutic in some way for him.

I easily dismissed this statement about DG's truck being a "piece of crap" from AL for a few reasons...
I know a few people who drive around the same vehicle that most others make fun of or describe in such a way because they either despise the person, they do not understand the vehicle owners care and frugalness of an older vehicle, or they themselves had problems driving it, possibly when they borrowed it or as a passenger. Amazingly, the truck is still operating and has not been replaced. It must be good for something.
As for not being able to manouever service roads and not being 4WD and having the proper tools to make it thru these roads, I will share my recent personal experience that I am pretty proud of....lol

I recently drove up a soft, muddy, forestry service road (that morning it had rained heavily) for about 15-20km at over 15 percent grade. I drove this in a Honda Odyssey Van with front wheel drive and highway tires. I came into spots where I could no longer move and would back down to a dryer, flat spot and work my way back up, it took me about 30 minutes. The owner of the resort did not think I was going to make it and was ready to tow me in his tow truck.

A Ford F-150 in 2-wheel drive would have no problem making it up the road that I had travelled and I am sure it would do fine in the surrounding areas of Calgary. JMO

 

[LoisLane]

I could see DG having a private project of sorts like this too. If he's learned from his past mistakes in law breaking I could see him having a back up plan or stash location of sorts. I keep bringing up location brainstorms because I want these 3 brought home somehow soon and hope they're not forgotten because the media will tend to focus on DG, so sorry if I keep bringing up location hunting here, it just bothers me they're not confirmed found by LE :-(

I am with you!

 

[Cherchri]

For those who have any interest, Alkaline Hydrolysis (dissolving remains in lye) may be the way we are disposed of in future..... http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828249 "The system works by submerging the body in a solution of water and potassium hydroxide which is pressurised to 10 atmospheres and heated to 180C for between two-and-a-half and three hours.

Body tissue is dissolved and the liquid poured into the municipal water system. Mr Sullivan, a biochemist by training, says tests have proven the effluent is sterile and contains no DNA, and poses no environmental risk.

The bones are then removed from the unit and processed in a "cremulator", the same machine that is used to crush bone fragments following cremation into ash. Metals including mercury and artificial joints and implants are safely recovered." Excerpt from BBC News http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-14114555

 

[stan laurel]

I wonder what the family dynamic was like. I mean, lotsa kids live with their parents, and nowadays it's considered a prudent financial choice and not just things royal families do. but I wonder what it was like in the home? I look at the house as being very sterile, kinda lifeless. did dg live in the main house or an out bldg.? his parents may have loved him, but the tough love may have pushed him too.

"Won't amount to anything eh, watch this!"

maybe, as long as dg stayed at the property he would be afforded a home, so long as he didn't disrupt the family quo.

I also think dg is a claustrophobic busy body, not good when in jail.

 

[stan laurel]

I easily dismissed this statement about DG's truck being a "piece of crap" from AL for a few reasons...
I know a few people who drive around the same vehicle that most others make fun of or describe in such a way because they either despise the person, they do not understand the vehicle owners care and frugalness of an older vehicle, or they themselves had problems driving it, possibly when they borrowed it or as a passenger. Amazingly, the truck is still operating and has not been replaced. It must be good for something.
As for not being able to manouever service roads and not being 4WD and having the proper tools to make it thru these roads, I will share my recent personal experience that I am pretty proud of....lol

I recently drove up a soft, muddy, forestry service road (that morning it had rained heavily) for about 15-20km at over 15 percent grade. I drove this in a Honda Odyssey Van with front wheel drive and highway tires. I came into spots where I could no longer move and would back down to a dryer, flat spot and work my way back up, it took me about 30 minutes. The owner of the resort did not think I was going to make it and was ready to tow me in his tow truck.

A Ford F-150 in 2-wheel drive would have no problem making it up the road that I had travelled and I am sure it would do fine in the surrounding areas of Calgary. JMO

congrats, but you knew that the person at the resort would help you if you got in a pickle and you also didn't have the pressure of knowing dead bodies were with you,, and did you have front wheel drive? the 89 didn't. can you imaging mildly getting stuck if you were dumping something unlawfully? one might have a panic attack feeling like a heart attack. not saying it can't be done, but in certain situations one would want to be sure they were leaving without help from a tow truck or even their own winch.

 

[Krystine]

For those who have any interest, Alkaline Hydrolysis (dissolving remains in lye) may be the way we are disposed of in future..... http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828249 "The system works by submerging the body in a solution of water and potassium hydroxide which is pressurised to 10 atmospheres and heated to 180C for between two-and-a-half and three hours.

Body tissue is dissolved and the liquid poured into the municipal water system. Mr Sullivan, a biochemist by training, says tests have proven the effluent is sterile and contains no DNA, and poses no environmental risk.

The bones are then removed from the unit and processed in a "cremulator", the same machine that is used to crush bone fragments following cremation into ash. Metals including mercury and artificial joints and implants are safely recovered." Excerpt from BBC News http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-14114555

That is quite fascinating. I suppose our water system already carries traces of human remains from centuries of people dying... as does house dust, garden soil, ...etc. We are organic material, when you stop and think about it.
I believe in some areas like New Orleans, LA, people have been buried above ground for a long time, for lack of burial space.

 

[stan laurel]

For those who have any interest, Alkaline Hydrolysis (dissolving remains in lye) may be the way we are disposed of in future..... http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4828249 "The system works by submerging the body in a solution of water and potassium hydroxide which is pressurised to 10 atmospheres and heated to 180C for between two-and-a-half and three hours.

Body tissue is dissolved and the liquid poured into the municipal water system. Mr Sullivan, a biochemist by training, says tests have proven the effluent is sterile and contains no DNA, and poses no environmental risk.

The bones are then removed from the unit and processed in a "cremulator", the same machine that is used to crush bone fragments following cremation into ash. Metals including mercury and artificial joints and implants are safely recovered." Excerpt from BBC News http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-14114555

would the funeral home look like a gingerbread house and tucked back in the woods?

 

[LoisLane]

I wonder what the family dynamic was like. I mean, lotsa kids live with their parents, and nowadays it's considered a prudent financial choice and not just things royal families do. but I wonder what it was like in the home? I look at the house as being very sterile, kinda lifeless. did dg live in the main house or an out bldg.? his parents may have loved him, but the tough love may have pushed him too.

"Won't amount to anything eh, watch this!"

maybe, as long as dg stayed at the property he would be afforded a home, so long as he didn't disrupt the family quo.

I also think dg is a claustrophobic busy body, not good when in jail.

I have no issue with DG or anyone living with parents as an adult. My brother in-law has lived with his parents over the years for extended period of time because he was building a house, renovating another, he was in transition. Also, Mayor Nenshi lives or lived with his mother during the election process and maybe he still does. These people I described are valuable members of society.

DG is troubled, his parents have put up with him for years. I can only imagine the stress he has caused them over the years and I believe they were aware of his violent disposition and know more about him that LE was not able to uncover. Not saying they are concealing valuable information but I do believe they may have turned a blind-eye on a few occasions and may have become immune to his abusive or angry personality. JMO

 

[Cherchri]

::

would the funeral home look like a gingerbread house and tucked back in the woods?

Hmmmm not sure SL but I am sure it wouldn't look as bad as the zoo slaughterhouse you worked at :facepalm:

 

[Krystine]

would the funeral home look like a gingerbread house and tucked back in the woods?

Tee hee! Lets hope so.

 

[LoisLane]

congrats, but you knew that the person at the resort would help you if you got in a pickle and you also didn't have the pressure of knowing dead bodies were with you,, and did you have front wheel drive? the 89 didn't. can you imaging mildly getting stuck if you were dumping something unlawfully? one might have a panic attack feeling like a heart attack. not saying it can't be done, but in certain situations one would want to be sure they were leaving without help from a tow truck or even their own winch.

Trust me I would have panicked if I was stuck. I had my husband, three kids and two small dogs in the back of my van, It was 4:30 in the afternoon and the tow truck driver/owner of the resort drove past me as I was about to enter the route and was heading in the opposite direction going to town, I would have had no choice but to wait a couple hours for him to find me and my husband, and three kids, dogs, who were already stressed out. Not to mention that if I had my foot on the gas and hit a dry spot I could have easily gone down the edge of the road at anytime. My adrenalin was going thru the whole drive. But, I knew my van better than my husband who sat passenger and we made it.

DG most likely has rear-wheel drive he could have enough weight in the back of his truck to push the truck down and give him traction. Sand bags are a simple solution for that. He would do fine.

 

[stan laurel]

::

Hmmmm not sure SL but I am sure it wouldn't look as bad as the zoo slaughterhouse you worked at :facepalm:

Apologies for the derail; the slaughterhouse was - and had to be kept - pristine. It actually took longer to clean it than it did to slaughter and distribute the fare. However, the dead pit was something out of a Stephen king book and would confuse future alien archaeologists as to why bones from worldwide animals are all in one place.

I wonder what farm implements the G property has,, a fence post auger is quick,, a tiller can also disperse.