Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #23

[deugirtni]

This makes me think the hard drive doesn't contain any photographic proof of what happened to the victims on the acreage, which is something I know a lot of people began to wonder about when the judge gave his warning last week to the family and jurors.

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I believe what is to come from the hard drive on Monday is DG's 'research'. And just to add that I'm sure the public and/or a jury wouldn't be too impressed with things many of us sleuthers have researched over the past few years. Here's hoping none of us are charged with a crime where such research would be seen in a prejudicial light.

 

[deugirtni]

Absolutely possible!
I would wonder though, why not ask Archie when he was on the stand about it....

The evidence this week should close up a few gaps

No idea why Archie and/or others wouldn't have been at least questioned in that regard. Some of that stuff could have potentially been hanging around for years.

 

[Power of Two]

No idea why Archie and/or others wouldn't have been at least questioned in that regard. Some of that stuff could have potentially been hanging around for years.

Can any of the witnesses to date be recalled to the stand for further questioning? Sorry if that is a naive question.

 

[Power of Two]

Douglas Garland triple murder trial to hear evidence of research on killing, torture and autopsies

Jurors in Douglas Garland's triple murder trial will hear about the accused's "meticulous and painstaking research" on killing methods, torture and autopsies, on Monday as witnesses from the Calgary police tech crimes unit are set to testify.

That evidence comes from a hard drive that was discovered hidden in the rafters in the basement of the Garland home, five days after investigators began to search the property.

"This was not just research," said prosecutor Vicki Faulkner in her opening statement to jurors. "It was research that led to action, research that led the accused to purchase weapons and tools for killing and dismembering."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...der-liknes-nathan-obrien-hard-drive-1.3955698

The headline in this news piece mentions autopsies. Do we suspect DG did autopsies on the victims? I feel he committed many sins with AL,KL, and little N, but autopsies? To what end? And how will that possibility be proven, by definition? http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/A/Autopsy.aspx

 

[deugirtni]

Can any of the witnesses to date be recalled to the stand for further questioning? Sorry if that is a naive question.

I think it is a good question, and I'm not really clear on the answer. I believe that it must be stated at the time when/before a witness is being dismissed, that further testimony may be required at a later time and witness may be recalled..... but I'm not sure on that. I'm also not sure how often, or if, it happens that a Crown witness might also be called as a Defence witness.

 

[deugirtni]

It isn't possible to have a "perfect fit". Even two pairs of same brand shoes of the same size often fit slightly differently. You've probably experienced this when trying on shoes. A perfect fit would mean that they are identical at every point.

But, a different batch lot would make them slightly different, the fact that one pair was worn and one unworn would show some changes. The worn pair could show gravel chips, or rubbed spots.

The information that the shoe prints were the same on the garage floor as the shoes that would have come from one of the boxes is very incriminating. Even if they had found the actual shoes worn by DG, the prints might not be identical by the time the shoes were confiscated. He may have stepped on a wire back at the farm.

I completely agree that the markings may never match 'perfectly' between a worn shoe and a brand new shoe of the same kind and size... but when they are talking about a 'perfect fit', shouldn't they be the same size? The soles are made, I'm assuming, of some kind of material which is formed on a machine in a mold of some kind, and shouldn't they all be the same? When we try on shoes and the fit is different, we're talking about the 'inside' of the shoes, where a number of other factors come into play, but when just talking about the fit of the outside of the sole, I would have expected them to be the same, if they are same shoe brand/model/size. jmo.

Just me, but I would have liked to have heard more about how/why they were not a 'perfect fit'. Interesting that the defence didn't jump in on that, but focused instead on those particular shoes not being found, no indication of DG having purchased them, inconclusiveness of who may have owned them, and whether there were ever any shoes in the apparently empty box which was not actually looked into, nor seized as evidence.

 

[LoisLane]

Is it possible that DG and/or his dad used to attend various auctions, some of which may have been from some kind of clinic or something which may have closed? Just bought up a bunch of stuff as a 'lot'? May have bought a 'lot' for a couple of things in it and the rest was just a 'bonus'? Is it possible that DG could have had a side biz selling stuff online? Perhaps buying at auction in 'lots' and then selling individual items? Some people have been known to make a living doing just that. Is it possible that could be where the wigs, shoes, straight jacket, and various other things came from? How is it known that these items carry any relevance to this case?

There is an ebay receipt in his files for diapers that a reporter tweeted. Most likely there will be more evidence of transactions.

 

[LoisLane]

The headline in this news piece mentions autopsies. Do we suspect DG did autopsies on the victims? I feel he committed many sins with AL,KL, and little N, but autopsies? To what end? And how will that possibility be proven, by definition? http://www.duhaime.org/LegalDictionary/A/Autopsy.aspx

Maybe they have video? He may have documented his intent and bought tools for specific autopsy work, maybe there is DNA to suggest it on certain tools. Otherwise I don't understand how relevant it would be. Unless they are ensuring this information is on record for future cases he may be involved in.

 

[Hatfield]

There is this picture I snipped off of News, not sure if this will tell you what you are looking to know or not - but I have saved hoards of pics so maybe it will help you.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3206053/douglas-garland-triple-murder-trial-thursday/

Thanks so much for the picture of the burn can with the hole at the bottom.

Catching up and that is a perfect picture of what I was expecting to see if he used a gas torch to help burn the bodies in the metal cans.

Notice the hole is at the very bottom which is important because flame and heat travel upwards. I suspect he had quite a torch blowing into the can in order to burn those bodies so cleanly as he seemed to have done.

Attached link below shows two orange gas cylinders that were seen in the basement and I suspect these are an Acetylene torch kit. One tank holds plain Acetylene gas and the other tank is usually plain oxygen. The mixture of the 2 gasses will light a torch that is used mainly for welding and he could have used that torch to blow into the bottom of the can and that would have gotten extremely hot and burned up the bodies real cleanly. Or like was mentioned even propane gas cylinder can be rigged to a torch to blow into that hole in bottom of can.

The hole in the can shows that he had a method of getting a torch into the bottom of the can. It helps explain how he managed to burn the bodies so cleanly.

The orange Acetlylene and Oxygen gas tanks can be seen in the Photos section below the video part.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/forensic-...of-evidence-in-garland-murder-trial-1.3254368

 

[Hatfield]

Been reading back through some of the older articles.

I wondered why LE let DG out on 750$ bail after his first arrest and I think I now know why. Been reading back about it and I suspect LE was hoping he would lead them to where he had kept them. LE may have thought they could still be alive and may have been held captive or maybe DG would at least lead them to the bodies or more evidence.

It looks like DG was trying to sneak back to his parents farm and LE could not let him do that so they arrested him that final time at 1:30 AM as I think he must have been trying to sneak back home.

LE probably knew they were going to eventually rearrest him and pretty much knew he was responsible. They only let him out on that small bail with the hopes he would lead them to more evidence or the alive people if possible. It all makes much more sense now as LE most likely had him under close surveliance as they arrested him at that early morning hour as he was trying to likely sneak back home.

I have to give kudos to Canada investigators in this case. They have done a really good job and had a good plan trying to let DG lead them to more evidence. DG is one sneaky monster. LE is lucky to have gotten as much evidence as they have got.

Im hoping the mapping photos will be really convincing photos that the bodies are right in his yard. That will be an important day in the trial.


"Garland spent last week in custody on unrelated identity-theft charges before being released on $750 bail sometime on the weekend.


Officers arrested Garland again near his parents’ Airdrie property at about 1:30 a.m. Monday.

"

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...harged-with-murders-of-missing-calgary-family

 

[musicaljoke]

I believe what is to come from the hard drive on Monday is DG's 'research'. And just to add that I'm sure the public and/or a jury wouldn't be too impressed with things many of us sleuthers have researched over the past few years. Here's hoping none of us are charged with a crime where such research would be seen in a prejudicial light.

Don't worry, deugirtni, we've got your back!

 

[Coldpizza]

Douglas Garland triple murder trial to hear evidence of research on killing, torture and autopsies

:rose:

Jurors in Douglas Garland's triple murder trial will hear about the accused's "meticulous and painstaking research" on killing methods, torture and autopsies, on Monday as witnesses from the Calgary police tech crimes unit are set to testify.

That evidence comes from a hard drive that was discovered hidden in the rafters in the basement of the Garland home, five days after investigators began to search the property.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...der-liknes-nathan-obrien-hard-drive-1.3955698

Tech crimes experts to testify in triple-murder trial of Douglas Garland

Douglas Garland‘s triple-murder trial will enter its third week Monday with testimony from an expert in digital forensics.

It’s expected court will hear more about evidence discovered on the computer hard drive found hidden in the rafters of the basement of the Garland home.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3210822/d...rial-monday-tech-crimes-experts/?sf53399441=1

 

[Tealgrove]

I'm not looking forward todays evidence.

I know we've talked about the individual pieces of evidence not being all that relevant on its own as many of us have some of these things on our own properties but it occurred to me that they must be very relevant. If they weren't relevant on their own merit then the crown would not be permitted to present it as evidence. In addition, the Defence would be VERY STRONGLY attacking the evidence.

I know we are only getting tweets but I am not getting the sense that the evidence is being aggressively refuted. In fact, so far, I get the sense that the Defence is pretty laid back in all of this.

Are any WS members in court and can give us a better sense of the tone?




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[Female]

I'm not looking forward todays evidence.

I know we've talked about the individual pieces of evidence not being all that relevant on its own as many of us have some of these things on our own properties but it occurred to me that they must be very relevant. If they weren't relevant on their own merit then the crown would not be permitted to present it as evidence. In addition, the Defence would be VERY STRONGLY attacking the evidence.

I know we are only getting tweets but I am not getting the sense that the evidence is being aggressively refuted. In fact, so far, I get the sense that the Defence is pretty laid back in all of this.

Are any WS members in court and can give us a better sense of the tone?




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I will be in the court room today. Heading there right away actually.

 

[otto]

I'm not looking forward todays evidence.

I know we've talked about the individual pieces of evidence not being all that relevant on its own as many of us have some of these things on our own properties but it occurred to me that they must be very relevant. If they weren't relevant on their own merit then the crown would not be permitted to present it as evidence. In addition, the Defence would be VERY STRONGLY attacking the evidence.

I know we are only getting tweets but I am not getting the sense that the evidence is being aggressively refuted. In fact, so far, I get the sense that the Defence is pretty laid back in all of this.

Are any WS members in court and can give us a better sense of the tone?

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I think the evidence is intended to support the premeditated murder charge. That he obsessed over the financial dispute with the couple, and searched ways to kill and dismember people, supports first degree murder.

However, although that may have been his plan, if they were mortally injured during the kidnapping, I see a problem. Although he may have had a plan to murder the couple, if they had not been mortally injured during the kidnapping, there would have been a possibility that his parents discovered the couple, or that Garland changed his mind, and the plan to murder was not carried out.

 

[otto]

I will be in the court room today. Heading there right away actually.

Thank you! I would like to suggest that if you are uncomfortable with what you hear, you should leave. Some things cannot be unseen, and you don't want to have nightmares from glimpsing inside this monster's head.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

I will be in the court room today. Heading there right away actually.

Be strong Female! Take care of your head! We are here for you if you need us, if you need to decompress after. We are thinking of you today.

 

[garbagetweet]

I will be in the court room today. Heading there right away actually.

Let me know what it is like to get into the court room. I might stop by one day. I'm interested to know if you manage to get into the main court room just just an auxiliary room.

 

[olivebpa1]

The crown doesn't have to prove exactly what took place on that farm in order to get their first degree murder conviction. Imo there isn't going to be some big bombshell evidence like a video of torture. The crown would have brought that up in their opening statement. The evidence the crown does have is more than enough. It's absolutely unreasonable to explain away all of this evidence against him.

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Let me know what it is like to get into the court room. I might stop by one day. I'm interested to know if you manage to get into the main court room just just an auxiliary room.

Same. I don't think they've had to use the aux rooms since the opening statement day. Although if DG is going to testify, I imagine it'll be like day one all over again with spectators. And yes, I'd likely be one of them in that case ...