Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #23

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Yes, absolutely... but... if the Crown is saying that the shoes that came from the box at DG's house were the ones worn by the killer during the crime, then shouldn't the shoe prints be a perfect fit, rather than 'not a perfect fit'?

It isn't possible to have a "perfect fit". Even two pairs of same brand shoes of the same size often fit slightly differently. You've probably experienced this when trying on shoes. A perfect fit would mean that they are identical at every point.

But, a different batch lot would make them slightly different, the fact that one pair was worn and one unworn would show some changes. The worn pair could show gravel chips, or rubbed spots.

The information that the shoe prints were the same on the garage floor as the shoes that would have come from one of the boxes is very incriminating. Even if they had found the actual shoes worn by DG, the prints might not be identical by the time the shoes were confiscated. He may have stepped on a wire back at the farm.
 
I think they won't say perfect fit because there could be another brand with very similar tread etc. that could make similar marks - though IMO totally unlikely. The defense didn't really go after the shoe evidence.

I mean come on - you have someone that knows the victims, had a grudge against them, had a shoe box with the shoes in questions, blood traces all over their truck that was in the area, no alibi for the night in question, with DNA evidence of the victims at their home. NO was never at the farm before correct? Who knows about KL and AL but I doubt either had been in years if ever. I think the least that can be agreed with is AL, KL and NO were killed or remains disposed of at the farm. So that leaves who did it.

A stranger that just happens to set up the perfect frame on DG? DG's parents or another family member? The evidence does point to DG and the Crown is going to highlight anything that bolsters that.
 
Sorta of afraid of posting this...but...most everything that has been found and testified about so far, you would find at my house. I don't have tanks of gases though.

Surprisingly, the areas in the outbuildings also didn't send up alarms to me. I know many farms that are no longer operating as livestock farms and there's usually many outbuildings. Many are full of things gathered at auctions, equipment from when it was a working farm, estate furniture and belongings from deceased family members...yes a type of hoarding, yet fairly common.

The one item I don't get is the dental numbing medicine. It's an injectible, AFAIK. There are topical numbing medicines, but I personally have not seen them in the type of container those in the fridge were. Shocking enough, I have injectible lidocaine, which would be similar. HOWEVER....I must add we have a much smaller farm, but do have livestock, and pets. Even though we are country, not many vets will treat injured chickens, or pigs. You learn to treat them yourself, and I have the needles with string attached to put stitches in if need be They were purchased right off ebay...

Restraints? I don't think I still have the leather ones, but I did have some that you put around a horse or cows legs to keep them from kicking at their newborn baby so it can nurse. I believe a friend borrowed mine, and I didn't have a need for them, so never asked for them back.

As a gag, I was given a set of thumb handcuffs. No idea why I have kept them.

I guess what I'm thinking, looking at each item, it doesn't seem that bizarre to me. However, looking at the whole picture, and DNA, and missing people, etc. it does add up to nefarious reasons.

I'm not sure how different cultures, and livestyles are in that area, but from what I have gathered through the time on this case, much is like rural areas here in VA. Most larger farms have been in that family for generations, and if the current owner needs money, then the timber is cut, or a few lots or parcels of land are sold. As many of the older generation retire from active farming, they usually want someone in the family to continue the tradition.

Since it doesn't seem the rest of the siblings were interested in farming, I can see how the parents just let him do what he wanted. Afterall, he was present if they needed help with firewood, mowing the lawn, moving items, driving someone into town, etc. And likely the entire farm would have been left to him at their death.

Did they realize he had some 'issues' or mental health problems, maybe, and probably. However, that generation here do NOT openly talk about it. I remember asking my Grandmother, who at the time had been diagnosed with brain cancer, if my Aunt had always been the way she was. Grandma pointed to her head, and shook her head, saying "she might have something like I do, it's best not to talk about people"...

Injectable lidocaine has a batch number and expiry date, so it's possible to roughly estimate when the drug may have been acquired. If it was left from the ol' farming days, it should be easy enough to see.
 
Injectable lidocaine has a batch number and expiry date, so it's possible to roughly estimate when the drug may have been acquired. If it was left from the ol' farming days, it should be easy enough to see.

I think the fact the defence didn't ask the parents if they had reason to have guns, handcuffs, tyvek suits, fridges full of drugs, women's shoe collections, meat hooks, poison manuals, etc. is also significant. It this was all just regular "down on the farm" gear, it would have been put to the elder Garlands and they would have explained what farming tasks it was all used for.
 
The straight jacket is not explainable. Why would he have this on a farm? No logical reason.
 
The straight jacket is not explainable. Why would he have this on a farm? No logical reason.

Yet there is no evidence put forth, so far, that indicates the straight jacket was used in any way in the commission of this crime. And having a straight jacket in your home is not illegal. Just odd.
IMO


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Propane and a torch seems like such overkill for the burning barrel. It's likely they were burning things that shouldn't actually be burned, but should instead be taken to the dump.
I am guessing he is referring to a small green propane tank, the Coleman brand used for camping stoves. You can attach a small torch end to the nozzle and it's a small but powerful way to *start* a garbage barrel fire instead of a lighter. It is what myself and pretty much all of our country neighbors use in this area (near the Garlands'). We just keep it in the garage and take it out with us when we take out the burnables.

I do think, based on the barrel photo with the hole was used to add fuel & flame below to get a hotter burn but I would believe something larger was used, just not not what DG's father was referring to. Acetylene would work.

Acetelyne is also used for welding. Any evidence of welders gear in the out buildings? Even so, it would be easy to obtain the tanks under that guise.

FWIW, I have never seen a burning barrel modified like that. I'm curious whether the older barrel seen discarded in the burn pit was similarly modified, if this was something they commonly did to all their barrels or if this was a new thing.
 
Just remembering today.

[video=twitter;515883315057131521]https://twitter.com/Jill_Croteau/status/515883315057131521[/video]
 
I am beginning to think that maybe DG has all these fetishes or 'preferences' (whatever you'd like to call them), but perhaps did not bring them into play for this kidnapping and murder. They could all be red herrings - the shoes, diapers, straightjacket, wigs, all of these things. Thoughts?
Chemicals to aid with disposal, chloroform, some method of restraint - yes, but the rest, I'm not sure about.
Does anyone else think that perhaps the murders were just that, murders (and body disposal), and that none of the other (sideshow) stuff actually comes into play?
Just pondering, I'm not committed to this.
I think we will definitely get the answer next week.
All MOO

This is my opinion as well. I'm open to evidence that proves otherwise, but so far I'm concerned the Crown is focusing too much on all the boxes of peculiarities. I don't think it's relevant if the guy likes to dance around in women's clothes. If it and some of the other fetish items don't specifically relate to the kidnap and killing of this innocent family, then IMO it's a distraction. We DO have a long way to go so I'm waiting to hear how it's all connected.
 
""This was not just research," said prosecutor Vicki Faulkner in her opening statement to jurors. "It was research that led to action, research that led the accused to purchase weapons and tools for killing and dismembering."
...
Garland's online exploration will also show his grudge against Alvin Liknes festered over years and evolved to include Kathy, according to the prosecutors Faulkner and Shane Parker.

"He planned to kill them but first he planned to disable them and remove them from their home and take them to his remote property where he could use the knowledge he had gained and the tools he had acquired," said Faulkner."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...der-liknes-nathan-obrien-hard-drive-1.3955698
 
""This was not just research," said prosecutor Vicki Faulkner in her opening statement to jurors. "It was research that led to action, research that led the accused to purchase weapons and tools for killing and dismembering."
...
Garland's online exploration will also show his grudge against Alvin Liknes festered over years and evolved to include Kathy, according to the prosecutors Faulkner and Shane Parker.

"He planned to kill them but first he planned to disable them and remove them from their home and take them to his remote property where he could use the knowledge he had gained and the tools he had acquired," said Faulkner."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...der-liknes-nathan-obrien-hard-drive-1.3955698

From the link: "The hard drive shows no research on five-year-old Nathan O'Brien but the Crown's theory is that he "tragically happened to be at the home that night," and Garland "incorporated him into his already meticulous research plan.""

BBM - this is the phrase that has been haunting me...
 
""This was not just research," said prosecutor Vicki Faulkner in her opening statement to jurors. "It was research that led to action, research that led the accused to purchase weapons and tools for killing and dismembering."
...
Garland's online exploration will also show his grudge against Alvin Liknes festered over years and evolved to include Kathy, according to the prosecutors Faulkner and Shane Parker.

"He planned to kill them but first he planned to disable them and remove them from their home and take them to his remote property where he could use the knowledge he had gained and the tools he had acquired," said Faulkner."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...der-liknes-nathan-obrien-hard-drive-1.3955698
This makes me think the hard drive doesn't contain any photographic proof of what happened to the victims on the acreage, which is something I know a lot of people began to wonder about when the judge gave his warning last week to the family and jurors.

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This is my opinion as well. I'm open to evidence that proves otherwise, but so far I'm concerned the Crown is focusing too much on all the boxes of peculiarities. I don't think it's relevant if the guy likes to dance around in women's clothes. If it and some of the other fetish items don't specifically relate to the kidnap and killing of this innocent family, then IMO it's a distraction. We DO have a long way to go so I'm waiting to hear how it's all connected.

If all of that evidence does not tie in to the crime, I would think that it would have been argued as inadmissible and just plain character assassination by the defence during preliminary hearings. Were there preliminary hearings in this case? I think the information from that hard drive is going to tie this all in to a murder plot that was long in the planning and included various means of torture and mutilation both before and after death.

Now whether he was able to carry through with what he may have originally planned, in what may have been a shortened time frame, is questionable. Because things did not go according to plan IMO. He likely intended to remove AL and KL uninjured but knocked out and restrained. Perhaps he did take the key fob... to go back and hide the truck as well. To buy time. People might think they had just gone for a short trip for the holiday and the urgency would not have been the same to find them. He could have had them restrained in one of those out buildings for quite a few days before the family and LE even really started to look for them.

But the blood in the house made that impossible. And NO was definitely not in the plan either. So the plan changed. Hopefully he was not able to fulfill most (or any) of his fantasies but if the Crown can prove that he had them and intended to carry them out, and without the bodies it can't be proven that he didn't, then the evidence should be shown. Let the jury decide what they want to believe happened.

MOO
 
I think the catalogue of physical items is to undermine a possible defence argument, that researching doing bad things to the the Liknes' doesn't mean he did do those things. All those possessions, which he went to a lot of trouble to acquire, show he was putting effort into actualizing what he'd researched, it wasn't just a fantasy.

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Douglas Garland triple murder trial to hear evidence of research on killing, torture and autopsies

Jurors in Douglas Garland's triple murder trial will hear about the accused's "meticulous and painstaking research" on killing methods, torture and autopsies, on Monday as witnesses from the Calgary police tech crimes unit are set to testify.

That evidence comes from a hard drive that was discovered hidden in the rafters in the basement of the Garland home, five days after investigators began to search the property.

"This was not just research," said prosecutor Vicki Faulkner in her opening statement to jurors. "It was research that led to action, research that led the accused to purchase weapons and tools for killing and dismembering."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...der-liknes-nathan-obrien-hard-drive-1.3955698
 
I find it interesting that pretty much every released picture of DG he is head down, eyes down. Guilt? Maybe. I see a social disorder also... I wonder if he ever looked LE in the eye, or his lawyer for that matter.
 
I find it interesting that pretty much every released picture of DG he is head down, eyes down. Guilt? Maybe. I see a social disorder also... I wonder if he ever looked LE in the eye, or his lawyer for that matter.

Even in this oldie....
young dg.jpg
 
This makes me think the hard drive doesn't contain any photographic proof of what happened to the victims on the acreage, which is something I know a lot of people began to wonder about when the judge gave his warning last week to the family and jurors.

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BBM - I agree with you Olivia&Eve - and that will be a huge relief to us all if its true!
 
The straight jacket is not explainable. Why would he have this on a farm? No logical reason.

Is it possible that DG and/or his dad used to attend various auctions, some of which may have been from some kind of clinic or something which may have closed? Just bought up a bunch of stuff as a 'lot'? May have bought a 'lot' for a couple of things in it and the rest was just a 'bonus'? Is it possible that DG could have had a side biz selling stuff online? Perhaps buying at auction in 'lots' and then selling individual items? Some people have been known to make a living doing just that. Is it possible that could be where the wigs, shoes, straight jacket, and various other things came from? How is it known that these items carry any relevance to this case?
 
Is it possible that DG and/or his dad used to attend various auctions, some of which may have been from some kind of clinic or something which may have closed? Just bought up a bunch of stuff as a 'lot'? May have bought a 'lot' for a couple of things in it and the rest was just a 'bonus'? Is it possible that DG could have had a side biz selling stuff online? Perhaps buying at auction in 'lots' and then selling individual items? Some people have been known to make a living doing just that. Is it possible that could be where the wigs, shoes, straight jacket, and various other things came from? How is it known that these items carry any relevance to this case?

Absolutely possible!
I would wonder though, why not ask Archie when he was on the stand about it....

The evidence this week should close up a few gaps
 
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