Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #23

[sublimemumma]

I would swear up and down that the Amber Alert at one point said "Nathan may be in the company of his Grandfather" and that is where the discussion of Kathy being included or not originated. Does anyone else remember this? We puzzled over that quite a lot in the beginning. Otto, maybe you recall this, or Lois or Lala?

I recall them saying they believed the grandfather maybe in medical distress but don't remember the grandmother being left out of the details completely.

 

[Power of Two]

I would swear up and down that the Amber Alert at one point said "Nathan may be in the company of his Grandfather" and that is where the discussion of Kathy being included or not originated. Does anyone else remember this? We puzzled over that quite a lot in the beginning. Otto, maybe you recall this, or Lois or Lala?

I do remember that Jade, but there is not a hope in Hannah that I could go back and find the links. It was definitely how the original AA was initiated....'Thought to be in the company of the grandfather'.

 

[Sillybilly]

I do remember that Jade, but there is not a hope in Hannah that I could go back and find the links. It was definitely how the original AA was initiated....'Thought to be in the company of the grandfather'.

The original Alert said NO was believed to be with his grandparents. The revised Alert said "in the company of his grandfather".

The Alberta Emergency Alert video is linked upthread in JadeSleuth's post #355.

 

[otto]

I can't remember if this had been posted before. I looked up those shoes (kind of) corresponding to the box that was found at the G home, and it showed the sole. This isn't the 'Delta 2' however, but just the 'Delta' that I found. Not entirely sure from the testimony whether their test sample was an exact match or not, it kind of sounded as if it was iffy to me:

Does that mean that although Garland had a different but similar pair of shoes, there is no proof that he ever owned the shoes that made the print? If so, is the prosecution hoping that the jury will assume that a similar pair of shoes means it's probable that he bought the shoes that made the print as well? That doesn't add up for me, so I'm curious whether there is a point to the evidence of the shoebox.

 

[Sillybilly]

I can't remember if this had been posted before. I looked up those shoes (kind of) corresponding to the box that was found at the G home, and it showed the sole. This isn't the 'Delta 2' however, but just the 'Delta' that I found. Not entirely sure from the testimony whether their test sample was an exact match or not, it kind of sounded as if it was iffy to me:

<rsbm>

Other than the articles that reference this case, I'm not finding a Delta 2 anywhere in the Dr. Scholl's line, only Delta.

 

[nettie_82]

The original Alert said NO was believed to be with his grandparents. The revised Alert said "in the company of his grandfather".

The Alberta Emergency Alert video is linked upthread in JadeSleuth's post #355.

Is it possible the revised stated about being in company of Grandfather due to fact of the amount of blood found at L house. Could LE have known than already it was that of KL and she most likely hadn't survived?


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[Sprigs]

Court also heard police later searched the Garland residence. In the basement, they found three empty shoe boxes. One was a yellow box for the Dr. Scholl’s Delta 2 in size 13 W.

http://globalnews.ca/news/3193486/d...eek-with-footwearfootprint-expert-to-testify/








A photo from the footwear comparison presented to court at Douglas Garland’s murder trial on Jan. 20, 2017.


A photo from the footwear comparison presented to court at Douglas Garland’s murder trial on Jan. 20, 2017.

Calgary Police Sgt. Gallen

Police homicide Det. Clark Budd was tasked with finding and purchasing a matching pair. Forensic investigators put black powder on the shoes and created prints with white transfer paper. At the same time, investigators used a chemical to spray the footprints at the Liknes home to highlight and make faint impressions clearer.

The chemical turned the prints purple, then Gallen said she was able to overlay the prints she created on top of the footprints in the home.

She testified several of the prints in the home were made by a Delta 2 shoe or a shoe of similar size and shape.

Court heard police never recovered a Delta 2 shoe

 

[YYC]

I've been thinking more about why he took the bodies of the victims. I came up with the following theory.

This vile man, but very smart and thorough, when planning all this, knew that his truck would be recorded by CCTV cameras at intersections/businesses surrounding the Parkhill area. By leaving the bodies behind, he knew that the police would have been able to determine a time frame during which death occurred. The sooner after death a body is found, the estimation of time of death is more accurate and precise. In this case, with the discovery likely in the morning, we are looking at a very short time frame of possibly less than 2 hours.

With such a short time frame of death the police would look at the CCTV videos showing vehicles in that time frame only and instead of looking at several thousands of vehicles, the police would look at maybe 100-200 vehicles at that late hour. Then, the police would be able to narrow down this number to maybe 3-4 vehicles (considering only vehicles that came in and out multiple times).

Without the bodies at the crime scene, he calculated, the CCTV camera videos would not provide any value to the police.
If he only knew that his vehicle was recorded just a few houses up the road.

In addition to this, by taking their bodies DG avoided the possibility of leaving behind his DNA on the victims' bodies, such as under the victims' fingernails.

More info on this matter at:
http://www.practicalhomicide.com/Research/LOmar2007.htm

This map shows 10 intersections for possible entry/exit to and from the Parkhill area.
I bet at least 2/3 of them have CCTV. There are many businesses along McLeod Trail.

 

[deugirtni]

Does that mean that although Garland had a different but similar pair of shoes, there is no proof that he ever owned the shoes that made the print? If so, is the prosecution hoping that the jury will assume that a similar pair of shoes means it's probable that he bought the shoes that made the print as well? That doesn't add up for me, so I'm curious whether there is a point to the evidence of the shoebox.

I really don't know what to think.
There is no proof (so far) that DG owned or wore a pair of 'Delta 2'
There is no proof that he purchased a pair of Delta 2
There was an empty box for a pair of Delta 2 in DG's basement closet, but there is no proof whose shoebox it was or if the box ever contained shoes
Maybe we will learn more later, but sounds like 'the shoe didn't fit' to me.

from Jan 20th:

Nancy Hixt @NancyHixt
Gallen-3 prints Liknes tile floor &#8220;they were made by the left shoe of a Delta 2 size 13 or another shoe of the same shape or size&#8221; #garland

Lucie Edwardson @MetroLucie
Gallen says as far as she knows there is no electronic confirmation that #Garland ever purchased a Delta 2 at Walmart. #yyc

Lucie Edwardson @MetroLucie
In her opinion, the footprints in the home are consistent with a Dr. Scholls Delta 2 or another shoe of same shape and size #Garland #yyc

Lucie Edwardson @MetroLucie
In her opinion that footprint from the bed is also consistent w/ Dr. Scholls Delta 2 shoe. #Garland #yyc
0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

Lucie Edwardson @MetroLucie
Gallen says the footprint on the bed is consistent with someone standing on the bed or putting a shoe on the bed #Garland

Lucie Edwardson @MetroLucie
"The elements are the same design, not a perfect fit...they do correspond in shape and size," Gallen of comparing footprint w shoe. #Garland

Lucie Edwardson @MetroLucie
Gallen is comparing treated footprint at Liknes home with the test impression she and Cst. Alexon made. #Garland #yyc

Lucie Edwardson @MetroLucie
Gallen says the impressions she made of Dr. Scholls Delta 2 shoes are the same make/model as shoe box found at the #Garland home. #yyc

 

[JadeSLeuth]

Is it possible the revised stated about being in company of Grandfather due to fact of the amount of blood found at L house. Could LE have known than already it was that of KL and she most likely hadn't survived?


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This is what I think happened.

 

[otto]

This is what I think happened.

That's exactly what I thought at the time. You remembered correctly that there was an alert that Nathan may be travelling with his grandfather. Given the obvious struggle in the master bedroom, and the difficulty that Garland would have had to hoist a 200 pound, 6 foot tall man into the back of his truck, it does look more likely that Alvin was alive when he left the Liknes property. Kathryn may have been attacked first and mortally wounded with a head injury. Alvin was Garland's primary target and given the struggle in the room, it looks like Alvin had a fighting chance at the beginning.

 

[Power of Two]

Here is a video clip of Nancy Hixt, one of the reporters covering the trial, on Global News which aired yesterday.
Worth watching as it has some different photos of the crime scenes.

http://globalnews.ca/video/3209693/douglas-garland-murder-trial-3rd-week-of-testimony-begins-monday

 

[gen_bug]

In regards to the shoes. I also only see them online as Delta, not specified as Delta 2. I even checked them out in store when I was out and about running errands. Another thing I noticed is they no longer come in a yellow box, like we have seen - but a grey/white box. At least in my store, but I would think it would be the same everywhere for the brand.

Is it possible that the yellow box could also give them an idea of purchase time of these shoes, prior to new packaging. Maybe they were "Delta 2" but now are just Delta?

 

[Krystine]

The truck running for 1-5 minutes could also add just enough confusion and back noise for those in the house not to hear the lock being drilled. If Alan came out, plan A, if not, plan B...meet them all inside.

 

[otto]

The truck running for 1-5 minutes could also add just enough confusion and back noise for those in the house not to hear the lock being drilled. If Alan came out, plan A, if not, plan B...meet them all inside.

You probably meant to write Alvin rather than Allen, but, nevertheless, the couple were probably in a deep sleep at 2AM when Garland drilled the lock. We all hear unusual noises at night. It takes a minute to realize that there's an unusual sound, another to somewhat wake up and focus on the sound, and for the most part if the sound stops, we go back to sleep. Last week someone set off a bunch of fireworks late at night for the Chinese New Year. I listened to the pops, figured out what it most likely is, and then forgot about it.

I agree that Garland most likely had a plan for the possibility that someone woke up. He had a taser, and that would disable everyone.

 

[Sillybilly]

Lucie Edwardson @MetroLucie
"The elements are the same design, not a perfect fit...they do correspond in shape and size," Gallen of comparing footprint w shoe. #Garland

I think that's understandable given the print is on the soft surface of a bed.

 

[deugirtni]

I think that's understandable given the print is on the soft surface of a bed.

At the time, they were specifically discussing the 3 prints at the front door of the L home.

 

[Power of Two]

I think that's understandable given the print is on the soft surface of a bed.

The photos of the footwear we have seen as evidence, which DG was wearing when arrested, are in terrible shape and looking worn out. Is it possible the tread was also worn and thus would not have been a precise print?

 

[Power of Two]

A niggling thought in my mind is, how did DG manage financially? Was he reliant solely on the generosity of his parents? He didn't seem to have a long working career in which to contribute to CPP. A federal disability pension starts at $933.82 and goes up to $1,290.81 depending on your contributions to CPP while working. In order to even qualify for a disability pension, one has to jump through hoops, have a longstanding history of inability to work, and a physician able and willing to vouch for you and your condition. I suppose if he did not contribute to the running of the household in any way or have any sort of social life, it would be a nice little 'allowance'. Because he has just turned 57 years old, he doesn't have his regular CCP yet, much less his OAP. It has been stated that the green truck is even in his father's name, so I presume the elder G paid the insurance on that as well.

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/b...pp/cpp-disability-benefit/benefit-amount.html

 

[Hatfield]

Just an older article that describes some of his past criminal activities in more detail than most do

http://www.vancouversun.com/Blatchf...+history+documents+reveal/10012209/story.html