Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #5

[TigerLilly]

They are identical twins.

Interesting. I wonder if DG had someone make his fake ID or if he made it himself? Total speculation...if DG was good at forging documents and someone paid him for new identity documentation..perhaps he would have to drive around while waiting for estate sale buyers or JO to leave in order to hand over the docs.

 

[stan laurel]

yes,, and it was very rainy here during that time, sandstone mud is a mud like no other,, very slippery and sinky. it would take a lot of strength to stand on the embankment if there is a slope of less than 45 degrees which there is little

 

[Wondergirl]

I meant to quote my last post with the picture of the end of the street and the Elbow pathway.

I have a theory after reading all the latest sleuthing;

Firstly; DG's parents by now would have heard about the search of their land and their son in jail. Even if he has done something wrong why haven't they contacted either the police or come home? Are they keeping DG in jail to see if maybe his parents are missing too? seems an awfully longtime for them to not respond.

However, and secondly, I now think DG has been framed; maybe someone else has posted this too, pologies. AL would know that his street has CCTV, and he would also know info on DG. Did AL call DG after the fact of doing something, knowing that DG would drive around thusly becoming person of interest numero uno? knowing that DG had no leg to stand on in defense?

It's so troubling and sinister that I find myself avoiding the news altogether.

BBM - Good point. Both AL and KL would know that there were camera's everywhere in their neighborhood.

Well, maybe not at the side of their house, which is difficult to see with the trees, but, certainly everywhere else.

A pre-meditated crime in the Liknes' neighborhood would involve knowledge and recognition of the various cameras at the neighbours homes.

JMO

 

[Weebles]

Winter Petroleum had tax issues from at least June 2012 and had agreed to payment plans back then

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=16&ved=0CDkQFjAFOAo&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.mackenziecounty.com%2Fdocushare%2Fdsweb%2FGet%2FDocument-31%2F06-12-12%2520Council%2520Meeting%2520Minutes%2520Approved.pdf&ei=wqG8U430HMHCigLd8IHoCg&usg=AFQjCNE5Ksz9aSRFKh-llW6o7QtYnclPlg&bvm=bv.70138588,d.cGEhttps://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=web&cd=16&ved=0CDkQFjAFOAo&url=https%3A%2F%2Fdocs.mackenziecounty.com%2Fdocushare%2Fdsweb%2FGet%2FDocument-31%2F06-12-12%2520Council%2520Meeting%2520Minutes%2520Approved.pdf&ei=wqG8U430HMHCigLd8IHoCg&usg=AFQjCNE5Ksz9aSRFKh-llW6o7QtYnclPlg&bvm=bv.70138588,d.cGE

 

[otto]

yes,, and it was very rainy here during that time, sandstone mud is a mud like no other,, very slippery and sinky. it would take a lot of strength to stand on the embankment if there is a slope of less than 45 degrees which there is little

Regarding the trees at the end of the street leading to the river, it is not a steep slope. There are several trails, including steps, leading to the river and Stanley Park.

This is a google earth map of the Elbow River in relation to the crime scene.



This is taken on the trails that are between the T-intersection at the end of the road and the Elbow River.



This is another google earth view of the house in relation to the Elbow River

 

[ElleElle]

Exactly. If LE had any reason to suspect bad actions by the grandparents, it would be bordering on irresponsible (and perhaps unprecedented?) to have them running free without a public warning that they could be dangerous.

The LE wouldn't suspect anything unless the immediate family gives them info that the Liknes' are dangerous. JMO. Like, any mystery, they can only go with what they got. And as far as i'm concerned, they got nothing.

 

[ElleElle]

Going way out on a limb to speculate here... suppose this does turn out to be the worst case scenario crime, and the POI is involved.

He's had 5 days of custody to get raked by LE, several of those apparently without legal counsel. Is he the type that would 'crack'?

We can look to his past misdeeds and misadventures for clues, and he actually seems kind of the opposite. We see repeated instances where he owns up to previous mistakes, confesses his mistakes, admits to nervous breakdowns, and so on. Whether all the things he's conceded are entirely true isn't necessarily the point, just that he's shown a lot of past tendency towards admitting things, as opposed to denial and self-delusion. Whether he was exclusively involved, assisted, or just knows or suspects something, past history suggests he'd be more inclined to talk than to clam up.

BBM ~ No, IMHO.

 

[ElleElle]

No. Calgary is a white collar oil city with many head offices for international oil companies. There is no mob involvement in oil and gas in Calgary.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. There is ALOT of $$$ in the oil/gas industry and the mob has their own supply & demand. JMO

 

[ElleElle]

Hello! New user here, drawn in by this case being a mother to two young boys myself and a Canadian.

I didn't catch the press conference today but from the transcript above they mentioned possible sightings in Brooks AB and tips coming in across the country. From my recollection, this is the first time they have mentioned potential sightings? Can someone confirm that?

Yesterday, it seemed almost a foregone conclusion that this was a "recovery" investigation given the intensive forensic search. Now I'm not so sure, and am wondering again about the family (and especially NO) still being out there somewhere.

Without speculating on motive though, how long can one realistically keep a child in their company with an active Amber Alert still ongoing? I mean, you couldn't exactly be going out in public or anything. And what would a potential captor be waiting for at this point, if it is such a situation?

The whole case is really perplexing and I just can't even imagine the horror the family is going through.

:welcome: ! So many new WS'ers! YAY

 

[SnooperDuper]

Does Canada have a DNA system? Anyways, with the amount of traffic that went through that house in the days leading to the disappearance, "hundreds" of DNA samples are to be had. JMO.

Was watching this BBC program on how to commit the perfect murder today http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/perfect-murder/ and it seems once you have 3-4 DNA profiles mixed in the sample you have garbage. There were just too many people in that house for the crime scene to be anything other than fully, completely contaminated. There is no way LE is going to get any useful DNA info out of that house (except, perhaps, info about the source of the large quantities of blood)

 

[MSNurse]

From Kittymeow transcript/notes of todays press conf:
says that yes the signs of violence is a concern about the family's wellbeing but not conclusive enough to say they aren't alive

This makes me think there wasn't a significant amount...just the statement itself. Signs of violence could mean broken glass, hole in wall, turned about furniture. I would think other terms may have been used if it were a completely bloody scene. Other verbage comes to mind such as "grim scene, horrific, massive, etc"....but those terms weren't used.

Quote by loveisthemovement:
I interpreted "medical distress" as lots of blood but they can't come out and say with confidence that someone is dead. Unless you are getting at something else....which I am misreading.

I interpret "medical distress" as someone needing medical attention, no doubt. But it just doesn't seem to me like they are describing a horrific murder scene.

Quote by otto:
Dave Dormer
Tuesday, July 01, 2014, 2:46 PM
"Drag marks could be seen near evidence tags on the walkway of a home where three people were reported missing Monday.
Police would not comment on the drag marks, which ran about eight metres from a side door to the driveway and appeared to be a dark liquid that was recently cleaned up."
http://m.torontosun.com/2014/07/01/d...y-went-missing

Otto - the drag marks are certainly in the back of my mind. I haven't dismissed it. But with recent moving of potential furniture, large items, increased foot traffic, could it have been something that left marks that was removed from the home as part of the move itself?

Don't get me wrong...I do believe and agree that something criminal has happened. I just personally don't believe a death occurred in the house. Or maybe I just don't want to believe that.

JMO

 

[KMouse]

Forgive me if this was reported already: http://metronews.ca/news/calgary/10...any-went-bankrupt-weeks-before-disappearance/

"Liknes headed up the cash-strapped junior petroleum firm.

The company had its equipment seized by a rural Alberta county that it owed roughly $800,000 to in property taxes and late penalties, according to the company’s ex-chief operating officer.

Kozera said he and all of Winter’s employees officially resigned June 25."

 

[ElleElle]

Dave Dormer
Tuesday, July 01, 2014, 2:46 PM


"Drag marks could be seen near evidence tags on the walkway of a home where three people were reported missing Monday.

Police would not comment on the drag marks, which ran about eight metres from a side door to the driveway and appeared to be a dark liquid that was recently cleaned up."

http://m.torontosun.com/2014/07/01/...lgary-grandparents-and-young-boy-went-missing

BBM ~ I wonder if anything was sold at the estate sale that could leave "drag marks".

 

[otto]

Sorry, but I have to disagree. There is ALOT of $$$ in the oil/gas industry and the mob has their own supply & demand. JMO

Supply and demand of what?

 

[arizona sunshine]

this answers something for me - AL has many siblings it is likely one brother ie CL would be significantly younger than him, cheers

 

[ElleElle]

I'm not a forensics expert. However, to see if the blood is XX or XY I would think that would come with the DNA analysis. I assume that is being done and they took swabs from the family so they can match up what they have.

I wonder of DG consented to be swabbed.

BBM ~ I doubt it. He seems to be the type to have lawyered up, and I would too. JMO

 

[ElleElle]

Interesting. I wonder if DG had someone make his fake ID or if he made it himself? Total speculation...if DG was good at forging documents and someone paid him for new identity documentation..perhaps he would have to drive around while waiting for estate sale buyers or JO to leave in order to hand over the docs.

Here's a thought. Maybe DG knew how to make people disappear. :scared:

 

[Wondergirl]

A massive amount of information regarding exactly what Winter Petroleum did, how much it cost, investment wise etc.

....a small private gas explorer operating in the remote, northwest sector of the province between High Level and Rainbow Lake. The company has 30 conventional shallow wells and 50 shut-in wells that will not be brought into production until markets improve.

AV: What other cost challenges do small producers face?

McCowan: County … taxes on our company are usurious. It’s based on pipelines and equipment and gas plants and it’s based on the original capital expenditure to put them in. They don’t take in appreciation, so the value they have assigned to it absolutely outrageous. It’s more than the value of our company even including the reserves. Our taxes haven’t decreased at all. It has no function of our revenue or commodity prices. They think the oil and gas industry has a lot of money.

AV: How can you tough it out given the current economic climate?

McCowan: We’re working with one of our neighbours, a gas producer up there and we’re going to jointly produce their gas so both of us can cut our operating costs. That’s an effective way right now to keep the status quo. They’re not putting any capital in nor are we, so that’s one of the main things we are doing.

http://albertaventure.com/2011/04/small-players-big-issues/

 

[bakerlady]

I'm sorry if this was already mentioned but why did LE focus on this one truck as being suspicious? Where was the camera located? Was it a well traveled road or a quiet side street? I know I often drive up the same road several times a day, running errands, dropping kids off at school, etc. So I'm sure my car is seen on camera somewhere along the way.

So why question about this truck in particular?

I wonder if there were tire tracks somewhere in the yard that matched a pickup truck kinda like 'My Cousin Vinny' and the tread analysis.

I also find it puzzling to drop a 5 year old off at 10pm for a sleepover. And why not the other kid?

 

[peony27]

I meant to quote my last post with the picture of the end of the street and the Elbow pathway.

I have a theory after reading all the latest sleuthing;

Firstly; DG's parents by now would have heard about the search of their land and their son in jail. Even if he has done something wrong why haven't they contacted either the police or come home? Are they keeping DG in jail to see if maybe his parents are missing too? seems an awfully longtime for them to not respond.

However, and secondly, I now think DG has been framed; maybe someone else has posted this too, pologies. AL would know that his street has CCTV, and he would also know info on DG. Did AL call DG after the fact of doing something, knowing that DG would drive around thusly becoming person of interest numero uno? knowing that DG had no leg to stand on in defense?

It's so troubling and sinister that I find myself avoiding the news altogether.

The truck was seen many times through out the day/evening. In the photo of the truck it is light out, so I am assuming that was before 10pm.