Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #7

[Sillybilly]

If you could point to a recent suspected professional hit that wasn't very public, or left bodies behind, then that would help make it seem more plausible. There aren't a lot of grandparents getting rubbed out by hit squads as far as I know.

Not really my theory but ... they wouldn't be "rubbed out" because they were grandparents; they could be rubbed out because they, or someone close to them, didn't pay their debts.

 

[sheshecanada]

If you could point to a recent suspected professional hit that wasn't very public, or left bodies behind, then that would help make it seem more plausible. There aren't a lot of grandparents getting rubbed out by hit squads as far as I know.

I do not necessarily think we would know as a lot of crimes are not reported by media.

 

[daniela40]

Not really my theory but ... they wouldn't be "rubbed out" because they were grandparents; they could be rubbed out because they, or someone close to them, didn't pay their debts.

EXACTLY!!!!


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[LoisLane]

I just do not see the point of taking Nathan or harming him. He is 5, what could he have testified or explain to officials that could hold up. If JO left at 10 pm was NO already asleep like most 5yo. Where would he had been sleeping in relation to the rest of the house. Yes, he may have woken in a commotion but what use would he be to any random burglar. They could have easily left him sleeping if he slept thru it or tied him up, why go to the extreme for him? Three people is a big job to move around, yes, the truck, three times, but again why bother with NO. Maybe, they are stashed in a bunker in the Airdrie property, there was a 12 hr window from the house and even longer at the Airdrie property to sort that all out. It would have been messy unless if it was DG and he injected them with his chemical expertise. But why Nathan!! It seems the grandparents were caught up in alot of financial problems and it seems dishonest business ventures and professionalism. Maybe they took off, they took Nathan, they are still alive, they are hiding out, now that the police have left the residence, maybe they will show up and bring Nathan home. Maybe whoever took Nathan could just take him back now. I pray this family is found and is safe and there is some joy to come from this. Please bring Nathan back to his family!!!

 

[sheshecanada]

Which was my first thought when it was reported that NO may be in the company of his grandfather. Obviously, it was LE first thought as well. IMO.

This is what I thought as well with the wording they were using previously on the AA. Now I am just not sure because of the little one being gone too. I only know of 2 other cases where the children and adults were both missing and well they both did not end well. In those 2 cases I do not think there have been any real answers....just fishy family members and $$$$

 

[craftybatchy]

If you could point to a recent suspected professional hit that wasn't very public, or left bodies behind, then that would help make it seem more plausible. There aren't a lot of grandparents getting rubbed out by hit squads as far as I know.

Professionals don't generally advertise their lists of accomplishments to the general public. You know, sort of along the lines of 'The first rule of the Fight Club is no one talks about the Fight Club.'

Grandparents come in all ages, from all walks of life. There are 38 year old grandmothers, 49 year old grandfathers, and so forth. Grandparenthood does not preclude one from criminal activity. Nor does it prevent one from coming into contact with unsavoury individuals of dubious character.

I'm sure a professional would have no compunctions about offing 67 year old snitch. Jobs a job after all.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Not really my theory but ... they wouldn't be "rubbed out" because they were grandparents; they could be rubbed out because they, or someone close to them, didn't pay their debts.

I didn't mean because they were grandparents, I meant it's not necessarily the norm for a tv movie hit squad to secretly take out the elderly, regardless of the reason. The idea of collecting a debt is to collect the debt, not to have a missing persons or murder investigation started looking for you and your hit squad. To go to that extreme might send the debtor straight to LE. Most gang land hits in Canada seem to be of the public shooting variety.

It's not an impossible theory, but highly unlikely. Secret hit squads calling in relatives to clean up just doesn't ring true.

 

[craftybatchy]

I didn't mean because they were grandparents, I meant it's not necessarily the norm for a tv movie hit squad to secretly take out the elderly, regardless of the reason. The idea of collecting a debt is to collect the debt, not to have a missing persons or murder investigation started looking for you and your hit squad. To go to that extreme might send the debtor straight to LE. Most gang land hits in Canada seem to be of the public shooting variety.

It's not an impossible theory, but highly unlikely. Secret hit squads calling in relatives to clean up just doesn't ring true.

Such as The Bacon Brothers and the Johals.

I agree. It's pretty difficult to collect debt from a dead person. UNLESS the deceased is worth more dead than alive ie. life insurance and the person to whom the debt may be owed is also a beneficiary of the will.
However, it might be worth it (in the perps eyes) if the death or disappearance of one (or three) sends a strong message to other parties involved or associated with their particular circle of friends, family, and business associates.

Are other members of the L/O families under police protection ? Have LE stated (as they sometimes will) that the general public is not believed to be at risk ?

 

[daniela40]

Such as The Bacon Brothers and the Johals.

I agree. It's pretty difficult to collect debt from a dead person. UNLESS the deceased is worth more dead than alive ie. life insurance and the person to whom the debt may be owed is also a beneficiary of the will.

Which takes me all the way back to two facts.

1) There was a violent incident.
2) 3 people are missing.

What we don't know is if there was a 4 th person present when the violent incident occurred.

At this point it's not about getting money back....it's about respect and payback.

That's how organized crime works.


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[PonderingNS]

What if LE are just going along with this as if they have DG as a poi ( and perhaps he is somehow connected ) [modsnip]


I hold onto the hope that they will walk out of a cabin in the woods and call us all crazy.

 

[Eileen730]

Let's' take this one step further...

And everything is IMO...

Maybe there was no careful planning. Assume for a second it is a professional hit situation. The perp comes in and either does something to AL or KL. And then there is a discovery that NO is there. From what I think I understand of a professional, a child is not a part of the deal. They make a call akin to "there was not supposed to be a child here, come clean this up..."... Enter DG. Now, it assumes DG is very close to it and perhaps ran the initial connection. Maybe not a stretch given his life's work choices. But a quick call in to 'fix' a situation would not allow time for discovering all the CCTV angles.

All IMO....

Instead of breaking bad we have FARGO!
Maybe Billy Bob came a knocking.

Maybe these ppl are on the run.

 

[Lava]

Sometimes a picture can say a thousand words. And then other times it can say absolutely nothing lol.

 

[bullish]

...

Completely OT, but honestly, lazy reportage like this makes me crazy. What's a "barren" desk? Is it a desk unable to give birth to little baby desks? Did the writer mean "empty" or "abandoned" or "vacant"? Grrr. When I see stuff like this it makes me doubt the whole story and I don't think I'm alone in that assumption. IMO. MOO.

"Bare" is a synonym for barren so the word fits.

 

[know_what_i'm_sayin']

The theory that LE may have a secret eye on a family member is interesting to me. In the Russel Williams case, LE had tracked his SUV and followed him for a while before bringing him in for questioning. Does anyone remember how long he was followed and tracked before that case was blown wide open? I feel like it wasn't this long, what are we at now? day 16 I think? Anyhoo, maybe someones being closely watched and they're waiting for the guard to go down.

 

[bakerlady]

We keep thinking there is someone else involved in this case.

[modsnip]

There was initially a rewards of $100,000 offered and then it was taken back?

The family also said Wednesday that they are looking into a possible award for the safe return of the trio, as part of the investigation.
Earlier, Calgary Police Chief Rick Hansen cautioned against the move, telling a local radio station that a reward offer could lead to bogus tips and create more work for police. At the news conference, Andrus confirmed that police are “exploring” the option with the family.


Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/missin...a-for-their-superhero-1.1895317#ixzz37RgbMFgM

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/missin...-emotional-plea-for-their-superhero-1.1895317

Initial reports: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/07/02/nathan-obrien-missing-amber-alert_n_5551477.html

 

[Mountaingazer]

Guys just a reminder before a mod comes in, unless the police state otherwise, the family are victims in this. Please keep theories about family to yourself unless LE states otherwise. We are a victim friendly forum.

 

[peony27]

From everything police have told us so far AL and KL are not involved, and are also missing.

 

[PonderingNS]

I guess we will just have to wait and see who is charged someday. I hope the family gets answers soon as I cant imagine how heartbreaking this must be for them. Till then I will watch the news, twitter and pray for a positive outcome.

 

[bullish]

I noticed that the article linked above says, "Although Mr. Liknes was not listed as a director for Winter Petroleum..."

AL was not a director, that means he held no ownership of the company. The Directors of the company would be available through a corporate search, available from any Alberta Registry Agent for about $13. Has the company been struck from the register? We don't know if their intellectual or physical property was bought by another O&G company, or what happened... We also don't know if the reported debts are still outstanding or have been addressed. Since it was an incorporated company, any shareholders would have limited liability. Even if AL held some shares, because he wasn't a Director the closure of Winter Petroleum Ltd. would have no additional bearing on him.. other than being out of a job like everyone else. He wouldn't be responsible or liable for any of the debt incurred by the company.

Generally the shareholders wouldn't have any liability beyond whatever money they may have lost by the Company going bankrupt (i.e. having purchased shares in a Company that ends up worthless). I believe that in some cases where unfair trading or illegality is shown to have occurred, Directors might be liable, but I'm not certain of the all the conditions.

Winter Petroleum filed a Change of Director/Shareholder on June 25, 2017. I did a Current Search of the Company last week for the basics but would need to do a Certificate of Status search to see the details of that document. I was going to do that this weekend but didn't have time.

It wouldn't surprise me to see that's when AL stepped down as Director.

Winter Petroleum started life as 649028 Alberta Ltd. on Mar. 31, 1995. It filed a name change on July 7, 1995, becoming Winter Petroleum Ltd.

On May 2, 2007 there was a status change listed referring to Failure to File Annual Returns, and a further status change on May 17, 2007 for which I have no description but I'm going to guess they filed because the Company did continue on.

Nov. 20, 2011 they had an address change (I don't have the details).

April 17, 2014 is the date the last annual return was filed.

There are 5 listed voting shareholders (AL isn't one of them) whose names I will not post.

The use of numbered companies in o&g dealings isn't at all unusual. When companies have an acquisition usually one or more numbered companies will be set up and the acquired interests moved from vendor to numbered company (or sequentially more than one) and finally to the purchaser. This is done for tax reasons and is within the framework of legitimate business practice. Just because numbered companies are used doesn't necessarily mean anything nefarious is going on.

 

[bullish]

Which was my first thought when it was reported that NO may be in the company of his grandfather. Obviously, it was LE first thought as well. IMO.

That was my thought as well, and stayed my thought until the family press conference when JO mentioned NO's grandmother probably holding him tight. Then because of what had been released since the first AA, I thought that if she still thinks her mother's alive and with NO, then it must have been the grandfather who'd been severely injured.