Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #7

[Labrahma]

We don't know if this was a planned or spontaneous sleepover, we don't know if NO was a frequent weekend overnight guest at his grandparent's house, we don't know if they locked all of the doors and windows before they went to sleep, we don't know if NO talked to other kids or adults while on the playground that day. It's entirely plausible that someone would ask him if he lived nearby and that he would tell them that he was staying with his grandparents for the night, even pointing out their house in the process, or that he would offer up the same information at the estate sale. Adults often make small talk with outgoing and adorable children and ask them questions about themselves. Children excitedly relay all details. So it's entirely plausible that perfect strangers knew he was spending the night.

You're right that taking the adults along pose quite a problem, but we do know one (or several) people were in medical distress. Perhaps this was more a hiding the bodies then taking them along?

It is rare for a child abduction to include adults. You are taking a whole lot of risk assuming the plans didn't change between the time you overheard the plans, and the actual sleepover. Given the age differences, there would be no reason to assume NO lived there if everyone knew it was the grandparent's estate sale. No forced entry suggests the perp was let in. If the perp knocked on the door, then they would know full well they would have do deal with the adults. It's not impossible... But unlikely that's what happened. Not that it's any great relief.

 

[otto]

I was looking for the link to clear information that Winter Petroleum was owned by Liknes, and came across yet another company registered to the address that is now a crime scene

Lifestyle Flooring Ltd
123 38a Ave Sw
Calgary, AB T2S 0W3, Canada

http://www.manta.com/ic/mtqd8lw/ca/lifestyle-flooring-ltd

 

[Boosmom]

If the green truck is actually the involved in this, I don't see a lot of careful planning. You would have to speculate there was then no casing of the neighborhood for cameras, and the perp brought an open box truck to transport 2 bodies. The amount of potential blood evidence left behind also suggests a crime of passion is more likely. The time of whatever happened suggests the perp wanted privacy, so there may have been some intent to intimidate (as someone said) or be physical, but late evening in a quiet neighborhood would require a plan to keep it very quiet. Whatever happened seems more a case of panic to keep it quiet.

Or I could be completely wrong...

Let's' take this one step further...

And everything is IMO...

Maybe there was no careful planning. Assume for a second it is a professional hit situation. The perp comes in and either does something to AL or KL. And then there is a discovery that NO is there. From what I think I understand of a professional, a child is not a part of the deal. They make a call akin to "there was not supposed to be a child here, come clean this up..."... Enter DG. Now, it assumes DG is very close to it and perhaps ran the initial connection. Maybe not a stretch given his life's work choices. But a quick call in to 'fix' a situation would not allow time for discovering all the CCTV angles.

All IMO....

 

[daniela40]

I was looking for the link to clear information that Winter Petroleum was owned by Liknes, and came across yet another company registered to the address that is now a crime scene

Lifestyle Flooring Ltd
123 38a Ave Sw
Calgary, AB T2S 0W3, Canada

http://www.manta.com/ic/mtqd8lw/ca/lifestyle-flooring-ltd

All of these seemingly random shell companies make it appear like some type of money laundering could have been going on. Maybe AL took more than his share and someone got "angry" with him? JMO



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[otto]

I noticed that the article linked above says, "Although Mr. Liknes was not listed as a director for Winter Petroleum..."

AL was not a director, that means he held no ownership of the company. The Directors of the company would be available through a corporate search, available from any Alberta Registry Agent for about $13. Has the company been struck from the register? We don't know if their intellectual or physical property was bought by another O&G company, or what happened... We also don't know if the reported debts are still outstanding or have been addressed. Since it was an incorporated company, any shareholders would have limited liability. Even if AL held some shares, because he wasn't a Director the closure of Winter Petroleum Ltd. would have no additional bearing on him.. other than being out of a job like everyone else. He wouldn't be responsible or liable for any of the debt incurred by the company.

"Winter Petroleum, a junior gas company owned by Liknes, went bankrupt near the end of June — just days before the family went missing. "

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...-search-teams-return-to-liknes-home-1.2705128

 

[Carli]

I believe Tim Bosma's remains were found on Millard's property, among other incriminating (i.e., not circumstantial) evidence. Millard has also been charged with the murder of his own father and a friend. I have no doubt the Crown has everything it needs for a successful prosecution. That case is one of the most disturbing I have ever followed, but lost interest when a number of WS posters thought Millard was innocent, framed or being railroaded... at least in the beginning. IMHO.

Fortunately, WS is for sleuthing and discussion; not held to the higher legal presumptions as with a jury.

Forgive my bewilderment. I'm old. Sometimes I don't compute rapidly. It's a golden years thing. But why on god's earth would you believe the crown has everything it needs for a successful prosecution in this or any case. Determining the validity of evidence against an accused and whether it does, or does not, contribute to a determination of reasonable doubt, is the work of jurors in a properly constituted trial, is it not? My opinion is not one that belongs on this thread, but in response to your concern I can only say that I find it absolutely and equally possible that DM is either guilty as charged, is innocent, was framed, or is being railroaded on every single charge. IMO. IMHO. And you know what? Because of the early rushes to judgement and bizarre releases to the media, I greatly fear that we will ever find out which one is true. I love your statement about WS being for sleuthing and discussion, and not held to the responsibilities of a jury. Hear. Hear. Thanks for that and thanks to the mods for encouraging it. MOO.

 

[otto]

All of these seemingly random shell companies make it appear like some type of money laundering could have been going on. Maybe AL took more than his share and someone got "angry" with him? JMO

Liknes can be connected to numbered companies that don't even have a name.

 

[Orangeboy]

All of these seemingly random shell companies make it appear like some type of money laundering could have been going on. Maybe AL took more than his share and someone got "angry" with him? JMO



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I believe that company was owned by the another family member. Al's son I believe.

 

[otto]

I believe that company was owned by the another family member. Al's son I believe.

The flooring company is registered to the home of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes, and it looks like one of Alvin's brothers was the contact person for that company. I find that very surprising after seeing the blue carpet in the kijiji ads.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Just curious if anyone knows how many Garland siblings there are? Is it only DG and PG?

 

[Sillybilly]

If you follow Lifestyle's phone number, it brings up kijiji ads to call "Cliff" .. also is listed for a bathroom reno company in London, Ontario

QP Alberta has it on the list for Cancellation of Registration 4 months from May 2 2014

http://www.qp.alberta.ca/documents/gazette/2014/text/11_Jun14_Registrar.cfm

ETA: Can't access the kijiji ad, so the London business may just have shown up in the google hit summary for the same page the Lifestyle Flooring ad was on.

 

[Sillybilly]

The flooring company is registered to the home of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes, and it looks like one of Alvin's brothers was the contact person for that company. I find that very surprising after seeing the blue carpet in the kijiji ads.

I wonder if CL lived with them at some point in time. Maybe his room with the bad carpeting, LOL (barber's kids needing a haircut type of thing).

 

[LoisLane]

I am reading about Garland and it reminds me of the missing, found dead woman from Edmonton. Her name is AH. She was a scientific researcher and found dead in a forest between Nordeg and Rocky Mtn. House. Her death was reported publicly on May 15, 2014. The connection to science is eery. Her colleagues and friends and roommate are all folowers of John de Ruiter based in Edmonton, he is basically a twisted cult leader. As I cross-checked names (fb) I could not find any linked to O or L, but some of the friends (scientists) have chemical mixing as expertise and are followers of JDR. What if something from her case (death was released as non-criminal) could help towards the O-L case? I noticed in one of the pics on the kijiji estae sale adv. the prescence of angel statues.. LIke a shrine... Were they into anything such as JDR. Coincidentally the JDR was holding a meeting of sorts that weekend in Edmonton and than supposedly shut down in the summer. If you search the name and see the web page and FB pics, they travel all over the world, have young children in most pics of community events etc. i could speculate a whole drama for this. Anyway the timing is so recent and the science connection peaked my interest. What if??? I have presented my concern to reporter at CH and publicly in the CH forum but it was never approved for posting, but that was also in timing when they stopped posting public comments in the Live feed. But i was told the police do review it so. I threw it out there. I will appeal to a reporter who did a story on JDR and his cult and see if they connect the dots for AH sake.

Also, has further investigating gone into the sister of DG? I believe her name is PG and she is listed to reside in Edmonton on FB, possibly in a bedroom city outside of Edmonton, her former employer is in Drayton Valley. Why would DG have so much knowledge of the grandparents? Where would he get his intel from? The sister may know or be involved somehow. Could it be possible that the missing are in Edmonton or wherever she resides?

 

[sheshecanada]

There just seems to be more questions than answers . I feel so terribly sad for the friends and family

 

[Sillybilly]

Lifestyle Flooring at AL and KL's home address definitely connects to CL (4th hit down on google):

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q="lifestyle+flooring+ltd"+calgary&start=10

When it was registered in March 2012, it had a different address:

https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/9265019/corporate-registry-registrars-periodical-template/49

So if CL did live at AL and KL's home address, it would appear that it was sometime after the company being registered in 2012.

 

[LoisLane]

Which media outlet do you feel is more accurate and proffessional? CH, NP, SUN, Global, CTV, CBC? I am trying to keep up with all of them. I was glued to CH for the Live coverage but the story telling from reporters was bothersome. I assume that the Investigators have there prefereed source??

 

[Cherchri]

I think this is the general layout of the house, although room proportions are estimates. There are two chimney's on the roof, so one is for the furnace, and one is for a fireplace. I was curious about what route would be taken to get to the side door. I'm assuming that there are stairs off the kitchen heading to the next lower level - where there is the side door. The attack could have been on the level where there is the garage, but I'm guessing it's more likely that they were awake (interior lights on in the morning) and on the main floor when someone came to the house. Click on the image for a virtual tour.

Phenomenal Otto! You are beyond talented. Thank you.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Let's' take this one step further...

And everything is IMO...

Maybe there was no careful planning. Assume for a second it is a professional hit situation. The perp comes in and either does something to AL or KL. And then there is a discovery that NO is there. From what I think I understand of a professional, a child is not a part of the deal. They make a call akin to "there was not supposed to be a child here, come clean this up..."... Enter DG. Now, it assumes DG is very close to it and perhaps ran the initial connection. Maybe not a stretch given his life's work choices. But a quick call in to 'fix' a situation would not allow time for discovering all the CCTV angles.

All IMO....

If you could point to a recent suspected professional hit that wasn't very public, or left bodies behind, then that would help make it seem more plausible. There aren't a lot of grandparents getting rubbed out by hit squads as far as I know.

 

[swedie]

Just a theory... did AL and KL get into an altercation in the house that night and let's say KL was accidental killed? Did NO witness it or tried to intervene and something terrible happen to him as well? In a panic AL took KL and NO in his truck and disposed of them, came back and tried to clean up. Reality struck him and he knew it would only be a matter of time before LE caught up with him, or felt remorse and guilt for what had happened, did he then wander off on his own and commit suicide? Or maybe he called upon DG for help after something terrible happened in the house. Did he and DG then get into an altercation? I guess there could be a million different scenarios but obviously only one set of facts. Here's hoping answers come very soon so that this family can have a bit of closure and a community can rest at ease knowing they are not in danger. JMO.

 

[sheshecanada]

I am reading about Garland and it reminds me of the missing, found dead woman from Edmonton. Her name is AH. She was a scientific researcher and found dead in a forest between Nordeg and Rocky Mtn. House. Her death was reported publicly on May 15, 2014. The connection to science is eery. Her colleagues and friends and roommate are all folowers of John de Ruiter based in Edmonton, he is basically a twisted cult leader. As I cross-checked names (fb) I could not find any linked to O or L, but some of the friends (scientists) have chemical mixing as expertise and are followers of JDR. What if something from her case (death was released as non-criminal) could help towards the O-L case? I noticed in one of the pics on the kijiji estae sale adv. the prescence of angel statues.. LIke a shrine... Were they into anything such as JDR. Coincidentally the JDR was holding a meeting of sorts that weekend in Edmonton and than supposedly shut down in the summer. If you search the name and see the web page and FB pics, they travel all over the world, have young children in most pics of community events etc. i could speculate a whole drama for this. Anyway the timing is so recent and the science connection peaked my interest. What if??? I have presented my concern to reporter at CH and publicly in the CH forum but it was never approved for posting, but that was also in timing when they stopped posting public comments in the Live feed. But i was told the police do review it so. I threw it out there. I will appeal to a reporter who did a story on JDR and his cult and see if they connect the dots for AH sake.

Also, has further investigating gone into the sister of DG? I believe her name is PG and she is listed to reside in Edmonton on FB, possibly in a bedroom city outside of Edmonton, her former employer is in Drayton Valley. Why would DG have so much knowledge of the grandparents? Where would he get his intel from? The sister may know or be involved somehow. Could it be possible that the missing are in Edmonton or wherever she resides?

WHOA I have never heard of this guy...he sure is interesting.