Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[otto]

Issues that are still bothering me:

1. Where did AL go to university, if he was a petroleum engineer? I believe this is relevant because if he received a degree in petroleum engineering, he certainly wouldn't need DG's help. However, if he didn't, he may have contracted with DG for his considerable chemical background.

Why so many bankruptcies? Is this part of a boom/bust economy in Calgary that isn't normally reported in news? Or is this like the Vancouver stock exchange in the 1980s and 1990s, out of control and run by criminals. No offense meant, I'm just so curious as to the shell companies, overseas companies, things like that. It must be making LE's job more difficult not to say expensive to trace all of this stuff.

Did DG really fall asleep at the wheel? Was he trying to imply that he was responsible for MKH's death? Setting himself up to seem 'deranged' when really he wasn't?

Is it just me, or is there just something OFF with this whole thing? Something missing? Something just isn't ringing true and I can't put my finger on it. Yet.

And who does this black truck/SUV belong to?

http://globalnews.ca/news/1436203/m...igators-spend-third-day-searching-rural-land/ (image 2)

I am so bothered by this disgraceful crime, and think about little NO every day.

That's a good question. Did he study at the University of Alberta and complete an engineering degree? If so, why wasn't that degree listed on his LinkedIn page? He should also be a member of APEGA if he is a professional engineer. Again, that is not on his LinkedIn page. Did he attend the Engineering Techologist program at NAIT? If so, that would explain working in industry but not having the professional designations. Either way, I think he studied in Edmonton.

 

[ResearchQuest]

I believe I read in some article (can't find it now) that AL worked in the oil and gas industry for over 30 years (may have been 40 years.) Back in those times it was common for folks to enter the industry without formal, post secondary training and learn on the job. He may be a Petroleum Engineer but without formal training and a degree. I know many older Engineers or Geoscientists that honed their craft on the job.

I checked the APEGA membership register and it did not show AL so he obviously is not and was not a Professional Engineer.

Bankruptcies are common in the resource sector (Alberta oil patch.) Junior companies constantly come and go. It is boom and bust. In the early 80's the city and industry went bust (National Energy Program.) The financial crisis from a few years ago was extremely tough on junior companies. Gas prices tanked, oil prices tanked, demand was low and investment and financing (especially for junior companies) did not exist. Many junior companies were lucky if they could sell their assets or merge with another company but most companies had to shut their doors.

Thanks. I was a little thrown by the word 'engineer' because to me that implies some sort of formal education and affiliation with a professional organization. I guess it was just shoddy reporting, then.

And big thanks, too, for the excellent explanation of the Alberta oil patch economy. It puts all of the bankruptcies into context. For those of us unfamiliar with the local economy, the bankruptcies seem a little alarming but if they're normal, perhaps they're clouding the judgement of some of us. JMO, of course.

 

[peony27]

I've seen that picture (#2), but the caption didn't mention what it is. Was it the abandoned SUV? Where exactly was it found?

It was found near the airdrie property(not on), where the slough was that they were searching. They never said if they found anything in it.

 

[ResearchQuest]

YES! I think that there is something VERY off about this crime, the way it has been handled, everything about it. I believe (MOO) that the family was told almost instantly that there was little chance that they were alive. The reason I believe this is that there were very few cries for help, statements from the parents, flyers, everything that normally happens when a person goes missing did not happen.

I feel like the police are not playing their cards. They didn't with Tim Bosma, either but I felt like things played out a little more textbook than this.

I guess that's what I meant. It's not 'textbook.' Not that every case is the same, of course. But I'm just comparing it to, say, the Kyron Horman case or the Madeleine McCann case. The behavior of LE and the family is different in this case, and perhaps the reason why will come out when it goes to court. Perhaps the reason why is that LE is confident they have their man in DG. Whereas in other cases, they were not solved so quickly.

 

[LoyalSleuth]

Hello All,
I am back from a beautiful camping trip in Algonquin. My reception was not great, and it was a bit of an unplug and get away from it all trip anyway... That was until Monday, when my husband did a quick run in the truck to get supplies, when he returned he told me there had been an arrest in "my case" (Dear hubby refers to all the cases I follow as " my case")

I am so saddened to hear this outcome, my numerou theories always leaned towards a planned exit from Calgary by the grandparents (and NO just happened to be there so was brought along), I truly wanted to believe this as it meant everyone was safe and unharmed... Unfortunately this is not the case.

My heart breaks to think about what may have happened that night / day, I can not even begin to bring those thoughts to my mind. I hope there is swift justice for this poor family, I hope the bodies are recovered so that the O & L family can lay them all to rest. I can not imagine what JO is going through, possibly burying her son and parents... My gosh, my head hurts thinking about it....

One thing I thought of as I was skimming through the posts, can the fact that DG's parents were away camping when this all happened, fall under the premeditated umbrella?
This time was planned because of them being away, he would have the farm to himself, and really had nothing to do with the sale?

May God Bless the O & L family and I pray they find some peace once the media fades away....

 

[Linike]

Issues that are still bothering me:

Is it just me, or is there just something OFF with this whole thing? Something missing? Something just isn't ringing true and I can't put my finger on it. Yet.]

YES! I think that there is something VERY off about this crime, the way it has been handled, everything about it. I believe (MOO) that the family was told almost instantly that there was little chance that they were alive. The reason I believe this is that there were very few cries for help, statements from the parents, flyers, everything that normally happens when a person goes missing did not happen.

I feel like the police are not playing their cards. They didn't with Tim Bosma, either but I felt like things played out a little more textbook than this.

I am in total agreement with you. I believe that the Family - Immediate family that is - believed it was over at the time of discovery, or very shortly after. A few slip ups that spoke of little Nathan in the past. Very innocently done, but they knew. Those tortured eyes of Nathan's Mother gave it away. Also the way things went, very few public appeals, withdrawal of reward. What a human can do to another is out of the realm of reality.

 

[Krystine]

Another possibility .... KL is the one dead, DG takes NO with him in one vehicle for insurance and forces AL to drive the other with the threat of hurting NO or the promise that he won't, takes them somewhere ... kills both .... maybe not far so he can take the truck back and get back to his truck. It's not really clear but maybe something in it that just needs more thought on my part?

ALjr said that the family left in the green truck which I believe was a slip as the police have not publicly confirmed this but it could still explain this
scenario.

This is possibly the best theory I have heard on here, PButtercup.

 

[otto]

Thanks. I was a little thrown by the word 'engineer' because to me that implies some sort of formal education and affiliation with a professional organization. I guess it was just shoddy reporting, then.

And big thanks, too, for the excellent explanation of the Alberta oil patch economy. It puts all of the bankruptcies into context. For those of us unfamiliar with the local economy, the bankruptcies seem a little alarming but if they're normal, perhaps they're clouding the judgement of some of us. JMO, of course.

Alvin may have described himself as an engineer and nobody questioned it, but without the degree, he wasn't an engineer. He may have been an engineering technologist, which is a 2 year certificate from NAIT (Northern Alberta Institute of Technology).

Kathryn Liknes, a realtor, declared bankruptcy in a booming real estate market in 2012. That doesn't make any sense. In 1994, at the time of the Alvin's first bankruptcy, the economy was stable but flat and engineering jobs were hard to find. New graduates could not find work in the engineering field. In 1999, the economy took off again, and that is when there was a huge jump in housing prices. By 2002, housing prices had doubled, and in 2007, housing prices had tripled from what they were in 1999. In 2007-8, the economy was again flat, and many engineers were again out of work. Declaring bankruptcy today, or on June 25 this year, does not make sense. The economy and oil industry is strong.

 

[ResearchQuest]

Alvin may have described himself as an engineer and nobody questioned it, but without the degree, he wasn't an engineer. He may have been an engineering technologist, which is a 2 year certificate from NAIT (Northern Alberta Institute of Technology).

Kathryn Liknes, a realtor, declared bankruptcy in a booming real estate market in 2012. That doesn't make any sense. In 1994, at the time of the Alvin's first bankruptcy, the economy was stable but flat and engineering jobs were hard to find. New graduates could not find work in the engineering field. In 1999, the economy took off again, and that is when there was a huge jump in housing prices. By 2002, housing prices had doubled, and in 2007, housing prices had tripled from what they were in 1999. In 2007-8, the economy was again flat, and many engineers were again out of work. Declaring bankruptcy today, or on June 25 this year, does not make sense. The economy and oil industry is strong.

Thanks, Otto. My dad was an engineer, so that's why I was so curious as to whether AL was, too.

And thanks, too, for the backgrounder about the Alberta economy. It helps a lot to put the historical aspects of the case in context.

 

[ztzt]

I'm not sure at all. In Airdrie, I'm guessing, but it never really was explained.

These are all I could find about the SUV:

"A black SUV was found near a pond in the area and became the focus of the search for a time on Monday as investigators tried to determine if it was relevent [sic] to the case. So far there has been no information released on what if anything has been found on or near the property." ["property" = DG's acreage, I believe]

"Police say they found an abandoned black SUV stuck in the mud, but have not released any details about what they’ve found."

The fact that police haven't released anything about the SUV makes me think it has significance, esp. given it's near DG's acreage. IF it was used by DG for the crime, then I assume it was driven there empty to be abandoned after being used to transport bodies, though it would seem stupid to abandon it near his own property.

Screen shot of the SUV:

Apparently the same one:

 

[Krystine]

The only reason I disagree with the accomplice theory is that DG is a loner. Everyone has described him as such. He's a loner who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. I don't believe he would be willing to bring an outside hand in to assist. He's had year to stew and plot this, so who knows what methods he dreamed up.

The law of attraction has been well documented. We attract and are attracted to those that are the most like us, with the same background and habits. I have often wondered how some of these partners in crime (eg. the Bernardos) found one another.

 

[otto]

Donations to the family are at $22,550, I think that if they are interested in a memorial bench, some of the money can be allocated for that.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

This is possibly the best theory I have heard on here, PButtercup.

Thank you [emoji5] I always go by the motto "When you see hoof prints look for horses not zebras." Things are often more simple than we think.

 

[otto]

Thanks, Otto. My dad was an engineer, so that's why I was so curious as to whether AL was, too.

And thanks, too, for the backgrounder about the Alberta economy. It helps a lot to put the historical aspects of the case in context.

I know that not all professional engineers join APEGA, but most have to do that to get work. Some professional engineers are specialized in such a way that they can dictate the terms of their job without needing APEGA registration. An example is that of an estimator for refineries ... there's so much demand for good estimators that they call the shots.

 

[ResearchQuest]

These are all I could find about the SUV:

"A black SUV was found near a pond in the area and became the focus of the search for a time on Monday as investigators tried to determine if it was relevent [sic] to the case. So far there has been no information released on what if anything has been found on or near the property." ["property" = DG's acreage, I believe]

"Police say they found an abandoned black SUV stuck in the mud, but have not released any details about what they’ve found."

The fact that police haven't released anything about the SUV makes me think it has significance, esp. given it's near DG's acreage. IF it was used by DG for the crime, then I assume it was driven there empty to be abandoned after being used to transport bodies, though it would seem stupid to abandon it near his own property.

Screen shot of the SUV: View attachment 55035

Apparently the same one: View attachment 55037

Thanks for finding that. It does look as though the SUV was driven their recently, and abandoned. Strange place to leave a vehicle, but it could have been someone joyriding. However, given the timing, it may have something to do with the case.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

I know that not all professional engineers join APEGA, but most have to do that to get work. Some professional engineers are specialized in such a way that they can dictate the terms of their job without needing APEGA registration. An example is that of an estimator for refineries ... there's so much demand for good estimators that they call the shots.

My cousin's ex-husband's job title was "Maintenance Engineer" but really he was just a janitor. [emoji11]

 

[otto]

My cousin's ex-husband's job title was "Maintenance Engineer" but really he was just a janitor. [emoji11]

True enough, there are domestic engineers and IT architects, but Engineer and Architect designations require specific qualifications.

 

[Cherchri]

This is possibly the best theory I have heard on here, PButtercup.

Similar to my hypothesis a couple of evenings ago Buttercup. DG lying across the bench seat with a gun trained on AL and might explain the sighting of the driver who resembled AL at 4:30 am going 10k under the speed limit. I think this really viable.

 

[PrincessButtercup]

Donations to the family are at $22,550, I think that if they are interested in a memorial bench, some of the money can be allocated for that.

I'd still like to get us locals together and do something symbolic for the family ... I still feel that need. My close work colleague is the sister-in-law of the Carlson's (hope I can post the last name) the couple that were murdered earlier this year and they have become the surrogate parents for their children ( in their 20s but obviously in need of support) ... she said how much these types of things mean. She said the kids would actually like to reach out to the O & L family since they've been there. I advised her that going through the church might be the best bet.

 

[Krystine]

Similar to my hypothesis a couple of evenings ago Buttercup. DG lying across the bench seat with a gun trained on AL and might explain the sighting of the driver who resembled AL at 4:30 am going 10k under the speed limit. I think this really viable.

PButtercup has Al following in his vehicle, while DG drives with Nathan. In her scenario KL is the first one attacked. It would explain the Amber Alert referring to NO being in the company of his grandfather. Logistically speaking, there is only one body to transport.