Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[bakerlady]

Sure the things need to be removed but it is not the family's responsibility to do so. If I were grieving and someone told me I had to do all of that I would tell them to go suck an egg.

They were trying to sell everything anyways so I would just call the salvation army to come pick it up.

 

[garbagetweet]

Wasn't the lease up on July 1?

In the news reports yesterday where they interviewed the O'brien's neighbour (Head) he mentioned that the house has to be cleared out by the end of the month.

http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/neighbours-launch-fundraiser-for-family-of-missing-calgarians-1.1917293

 

[appleeye]

Wow. I would hope that he had spoke to them before speaking for them.

 

[dairydog]

We owe many thanks to the WS members who spent so much time in researching the past criminal activities, arrests, etc. of DG. We now know quite a bit about his criminal history but so far little has been mentioned of his personal behaviour and past. In many cases, we hear quite a lot about accused killers; going back to their childhood and onwards. I realize that this case is still in its infancy but I do wonder why we haven't heard from classmates (public, high school, university) or even co-workers or acquaintances. I still keep in contact with a number of public school and high school friends and I'm older than DG! I noticed that the family did move around a bit in the 1960's when DG would have attended public school. Wondergirl, I believe mentioned that they lived in Bow River (1965) but had a different Calgary address in 1962 (from the voters' lists). I do not know where he would have attended public school but I assume that when they moved to the farm, he went to high school in Airdrie. Did the school have year books? We know he is a loner so he likely had few friends and perhaps had problems in forming close or intimate relationships. I find it amazing that he went on the lam for 7 years before being arrested. Even with a fraudulent identity, one would think he would now be recognized by folks with whom he had contact during that time. One would think that during his run from LE that photos of him would have been widely circulated but perhaps not in B.C. I also wonder just how much actual farm work he did when his family moved to rural Airdrie? Was it bought as a 'gentleman' type farm where his parents leased the acreage to other farmers? It seemed like quite a contrast to move from Calgary to a farm. Although his parents were a lot younger, the voter's list gave his father's occupation as an accountant/clerk. Perhaps his parents continued to work in town. I also strongly believe that the traits that develop in one's childhood, continue throughout the years. It seems that DG has a violent temper and obviously no conscience or empathy, given the heinous crime (if he is in fact the killer). Perhaps he was prone to temper tantrums as a child. It's been said that he didn't like authority. To kill three innocent people, including a sweet little child, over a business grudge, is unthinkable. This sure makes me think that this is not the first time he has committed a violent act when he perceived a wrong doing by another person(s). I'm sure that LE will attempt to follow his trail over the past years in order to investigate any other missing persons/unsolved cases. In any case, he is certainly a narcissist who cares only about himself. I feel so badly for all the families including his parents for whom he created a hellish existence. How can one ever cope with a nightmare like this?

 

[ResearchQuest]

I know it's tough, but even in times of grief, practical things must be dealt with. There will be people to help the family to clear the house, and make the arrangements. Awful, though, I agree.

 

[otto]

I'm not trying to be insensitive but are family members really responsible for the Liknes home and moving their things and settling their estate? I would just apologize and say 'sorry I can't deal with this now'. It's not their responsibility. And I would hope they had life insurance policies to cover funeral expenses and whatnot.

Also the reward money might not have been offered by family members. The most recent case I remember is Relisha Rudd. She was homeless and the FBI offered up a $25k reward for information.

The black SUV is interesting. Maybe that is one of DG's vehicles and he used that to transport bodies and then switched to his truck to go back for clean up. He could have left it near the property to avoid detection from the road and neighbors but close enough that no one would be reporting an abandoned vehicle.

I honestly believe that DG did not think anyone would be looking for him.

It is the responsibility of the family, and next of kin, to clear out the home of deceased loved ones. Next of kin is responsible for crime scene clean up costs. There is no one else that will remove the contents with care, but there are companies that will haul and remove for garbage disposal.

 

[bakerlady]

It is the responsibility of the family, and next of kin, to clear out the home of deceased loved ones. Next of kin is responsible for crime scene clean up costs. There is no one else that will remove the contents with care, but there are companies that will haul and remove for garbage disposal.

There is no way this can be true. You can not be held responsible for another adult's property or actions, blood relative or not. Absolutely false.

ETA: Link https://www.mywayforward.com/financial/deceased_debt/

 

[otto]

Just a thought ... the brother's carpeting company used the Liknes' address as the registered address. If he did live with them for a while, maybe the possible "second living room" was his space.

(Although with the cold temps and frost heaves in AB, I don't think that space would have been too comfortable in the dead of winter. It's one thing to use a room without an excavated basement under it in warm weather but in the cold weather I don't imagine it would be that warm, even with space heaters.)

All four levels are fully developed and the furnace/hotwater/electrical would be on the lowest level. That part of the house would be warm.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

It's good to see you posting again! I posted a floor plan of the house based on the front elevation, the aerial footprint, and the traditional layout of four level split homes. The room where the windows go to the floor must be the room upstairs in the front of the house with the balcony. I know that you looked carefully at all of the kijiji ads and media photos to understand the floorplan. Please have a look and let me know what you think about this as an approximate layout (proportions approximate as well).

Excellent work otto, I had not seen all these images and am very impressed with the accuracy of them. Couple of notes though otto, in your foyer entrance area you have the windows on the left hand side of the front door (if looking at the house from the street) maybe a bathroom but based on the photos on kijiji I am absolutely certain that there is a wall dividing the foyer from those windows. If I am able to I would like to post the kijiji photo to demonstrate. Does anyone still have the link to the kijiji ads. Secondly, the stairs are absolutely in the right position (I had an almost identical home) however I believe you stated it was a four level side split but I am thinking it is only a three level split. We had a four level split as indicated and the fourth lowest level was basically all below ground therefore the windows by code have to be there and therefore window wells are needed on the outside of the home. I don't see any but that doesn't mean they aren't there but I also wonder with the cold weather in Alberta and frost etc if a fourth lower level was feasible. I welcome thoughts and ideas. Note: the levels being first: the level just below the living room second: main floor and third: upper floor over the garage.

 

[otto]

There is no way this can be true. You can not be held responsible for another adult's property or actions, blood relative or not. Absolutely false.

ETA: Link https://www.mywayforward.com/financial/deceased_debt/

Who should clean up the crime scene and remove the contents ... the home owner? I suppose the home owner would do it, but everything will be removed for garbage disposal, and the associated costs will be filed against the estate. The executor of the estate is the person responsible for looking after the estate, which includes all costs associated with the death (funeral, crime scene clean-up), and house contents.

 

[ilovepierre]

Sure the things need to be removed but it is not the family's responsibility to do so. If I were grieving and someone told me I had to do all of that I would tell them to go suck an egg.

They were trying to sell everything anyways so I would just call the salvation army to come pick it up.

When my great gramma died, family members were responsible for moving everything out of her house.
For some people, it's a grieving process.

 

[otto]

The L house is only leased until the end of July. So, the things in the house need to come out and go somewhere. In order to settle an estate, there has to be a death certificate. So until that time, perhaps it's just best if the things go into storage. That's my take on it, anyway. There is a death benefit from CPP which can be used to cover funeral expenses. I do not know the amount, nor do I wish to be insensitive and speculate on the funeral, sorry. Not everyone buys life insurance, for various reasons.

Police and prosecutors have stated that the victims are deceased. The medical examiner was at the home the day that the disappearance was reported and is probably the person that has confirmed that they are deceased. I think that a death certificate can be filed. This is different from a missing person's case where there is some belief amongst authorities that the missing persons will resurface. They have been declared dead, and that is probably based on blood evidence ... too much blood evidence for the three victims to still be alive.

 

[Krystine]

A matter if opinion Krystine. If NO were alive in the vehicle, unlikely AL would purposely have a car wreck IMO. So some added insights on this would be interesting, factoring in the sighting of a similar vehicle by a tipster who said the driver looked like AL. Darn this guy if he would only talk. He surely doesn't hope to bargain less time in the event he is convicted?

Definitely a matter of opinion. I don't pretend to be a professional by any means, just someone with some insight and life experience (like all of us).

 

[otto]

I completely agree with you on that one. Without a body or a death cert. there is no need for an executor and I am guessing by the little bits that we have heard , that there is a DEEP cleaning that needs to happen in that house before anyone can even go in it. The family that was to move in have already said that they may not want to move there. I will look for link to support that.

Is it their problem? I don't know. Has it even been released as a crime scene? How are they to have their things out by the end of the month? Gosh I just keep thinking this is so strange.

The crime scene tape is down, and a video link was posted yesterday of Serpro cleaning services at the house.

 

[garbagetweet]

We had a four level split as indicated and the fourth lowest level was basically all below ground therefore the windows by code have to be there and therefore window wells are needed on the outside of the home. I don't see any but that doesn't mean they aren't there but I also wonder with the cold weather in Alberta and frost etc if a fourth lower level was feasible.

There would absolutely be a 4th (lowermost level) that would be sub-grade. We have a 4 level split in Calgary which is likely built around the same time (if not earlier) than the Liknes home. We have a main floor slightly above grade, an upper floor with bedrooms/bathroom, a lower lever which is half above grade (similar to the right hand side lower windows on the Liknes home) and a basement (sub grade) with window wells. All of our levels are completely developed and fully live-able.

 

[otto]

Excellent work otto, I had not seen all these images and am very impressed with the accuracy of them. Couple of notes though otto, in your foyer entrance area you have the windows on the left hand side of the front door (if looking at the house from the street) maybe a bathroom but based on the photos on kijiji I am absolutely certain that there is a wall dividing the foyer from those windows. If I am able to I would like to post the kijiji photo to demonstrate. Does anyone still have the link to the kijiji ads. Secondly, the stairs are absolutely in the right position (I had an almost identical home) however I believe you stated it was a four level side split but I am thinking it is only a three level split. We had a four level split as indicated and the fourth lowest level was basically all below ground therefore the windows by code have to be there and therefore window wells are needed on the outside of the home. I don't see any but that doesn't mean they aren't there but I also wonder with the cold weather in Alberta and frost etc if a fourth lower level was feasible. I welcome thoughts and ideas. Note: the levels being first: the level just below the living room second: main floor and third: upper floor over the garage.

http://www.kijiji.ca/o-posters-other-ads/56563739

They are ads in the public domain, so I would assume that the pictures can be posted with links.

 

[zencompass]

My thoughts and prayers go out to the family, police and the community who are so determined to continue searching as they care so much about this heart-breaking case. I am still hoping that Douglas Garland's family, especially his sister who is in a relationship with one of the sons, will get him to tell where the bodies are since after all, Nathan would have been considered a nephew to Garland's sister.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

There would absolutely be a 4th (lowermost level) that would be sub-grade. We have a 4 level split in Calgary which is likely built around the same time (if not earlier) than the Liknes home. We have a main floor slightly above grade, an upper floor with bedrooms/bathroom, a lower lever which is half above grade (similar to the right hand side lower windows on the Liknes home) and a basement (sub grade) with window wells. All of our levels are completely developed and fully live-able.

Thanks, yes it is possible for sure. I would be interested to see if there were window wells on the home indicating the fourth lowest level. I don't believe though and it is only my speculation, that the crime occurred in the lower levels but rather on the upper most level of the home but of course I have no reference for that thought.

 

[otto]

Excellent work otto, I had not seen all these images and am very impressed with the accuracy of them. Couple of notes though otto, in your foyer entrance area you have the windows on the left hand side of the front door (if looking at the house from the street) maybe a bathroom but based on the photos on kijiji I am absolutely certain that there is a wall dividing the foyer from those windows. If I am able to I would like to post the kijiji photo to demonstrate. Does anyone still have the link to the kijiji ads. Secondly, the stairs are absolutely in the right position (I had an almost identical home) however I believe you stated it was a four level side split but I am thinking it is only a three level split. We had a four level split as indicated and the fourth lowest level was basically all below ground therefore the windows by code have to be there and therefore window wells are needed on the outside of the home. I don't see any but that doesn't mean they aren't there but I also wonder with the cold weather in Alberta and frost etc if a fourth lower level was feasible. I welcome thoughts and ideas. Note: the levels being first: the level just below the living room second: main floor and third: upper floor over the garage.

Regarding four level split, it must be four. There's the garage and floor above on one side of the house, and there's the main entrance and window on the floor below on the other side of the house, therefore ... a four level split. There is more developed space behind the garage. There is permafrost in Calgary, and every house must be built four feet into the ground. For cost effectiveness, that is usually turned into a full basement.

 

[sublimemumma]

I have just spent over an hour catching up on all the posts on here... It was on one of the closed threads and I don't remember which one... It was a transcript of someone talking about the charges that have been laid against DG... I figured with just the murder charges and no kidnapping charges they didn't think that they were removed from the house alive but then in this interview he mentioned it.
I was wondering if they could later on add those charges and if they could possibly be waiting until they have enough evidence to back that up? I have felt from the beginning of the amber alert that AL was murdered at the house and the other two done afterwards. (especially with the drag marks on the driveway, that is unless AL was the only one that was heavy enough t need to drag and not carry... just thought of that as I was writing this...)
Also in regards to the black SUV, does anyone know if the police took it or if it is still sitting where it is seen on the pictures . That would help us know if it is evidence linked to the case... I do agree that it sounds suspicious.

Also as to the post mentioning Drumheller (Alberta badlands) we (yes I live here) are actually 45 minutes from Airdrie if you know the back roads. The town and immediate area is very busy with people hiking and exploring this time of the year but there is also a lot of area with coulees, caves, hills and such that would make for very isolated hiding places. It would be very hard to carry three bodies to hide though and doesn't seem very likely to me. My first thought was more towards Canmore and the area in the hills that way. Anyone who knows Alberta knows there is a vast amount of space to search and cover. I only hope and pray for those conducting the search and hope there will find something soon so the family will get some closure...