Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[Deleted member 117120]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...le-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all



He was going back for something.

I remember during his bail hearing when he said he often worked past 9pm...so strange to say that.

The article indicated that DG was arrested on the front porch of his neighbors property. Why did LE arrest him there and at that time? Were they concerned he would commit another crime at that home? Why was DG there at that time? Could it be that he was asked to leave the motel and was seeking a place to stay? or something more sinister and LE was not going to take a chance of him entering their home?

 

[daniela40]

The article indicated that DG was arrested on the front porch of his neighbors property. Why did LE arrest him there and at that time? Were they concerned he would commit another crime at that home? Why was DG there at that time? Could it be that he was asked to leave the motel and was seeking a place to stay? or something more sinister and LE was not going to take a chance of him entering their home?

These are great questions!

On one hand, logic tells me that the motel kicked him out and maybe he thought that neighbor would let him stay there.

On the other hand, I think he'd be a fool to expect them to let him stay there. Therefore, that leads me to believe that maybe he hid something in/on/near their property.

At this point and after so many weeks of police searching the Airdrie area, it would seem that anything that could be found by police would have been discovered by now.


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[Deleted member 117120]

The 30 days seems to have significance on two fronts:

"In a news release put out Thursday afternoon, the Calgary Police Service says while they are grateful for the overwhelming community support of the investigation, they currently have a 30-day search plan in effect which cannot be shared outside of law enforcement.​"

"Crown prosecutor Shane Parker says it normally takes 30 days for disclosure in a major crime — especially one that involved a homicide and missing persons investigation."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ay-civilian-search-teams-not-needed-1.2708571

If I had to guess, I think that the 30 days has more to do with disclosure than searching.

Thank you otto, perhaps LE is hoping if they keep their manpower on this case that within the 30 days evidence will be discovered that could be included in their disclosure. What if any are your thoughts on the family being discovered within this time frame?

 

[bakerlady]

The wording of the article is confusing. It just says porch of the home behind his parent's property. So does that mean their back porch or the neighbors porch? Hard to decipher for me.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

These are great questions!

On one hand, logic tells me that the motel kicked him out and maybe he thought that neighbor would let him stay there.

On the other hand, I think he'd be a fool to expect them to let him stay there. Therefore, that leads me to believe that maybe he hid something in/on/near their property.

At this point and after so many weeks of police searching the Airdrie area, it would seem that anything that could be found by police would have been discovered by now.


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Daniela, I question if he thought he was going to be able to stay there since from everything I have read, DG was a loner and was not known even by his neighbors and you are correct it would highly unlikely he would have been invited into their home and I would think DG would have known that going there. Perhaps and this is only speculation, perhaps DG was going to create a hostage scenario and that is why LE stepped in at that moment rather then let DG proceed and LE take a watch and observe approach. DG knew the hounds were closing in on him and maybe he felt he had nothing to lose.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

The wording of the article is confusing. It just says porch of the home behind his parent's property. So does that mean their back porch or the neighbors porch? Hard to decipher for me.

I take it the neighbors porch as I assume DG could not get even close to his parents farm.

 

[daniela40]

The wording of the article is confusing. It just says porch of the home behind his parent's property. So does that mean their back porch or the neighbors porch? Hard to decipher for me.

This is a good point.

Maybe this is way off, but locating DG on the FRONT porch seems far less nefarious than finding him on the BACK porch (which somehow seems more sinister and sneaky, especially considering it was the middle of the night).


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[daniela40]

Daniela, I question if he thought he was going to be able to stay there since from everything I have read, DG was a loner and was not known even by his neighbors and you are correct it would highly unlikely he would have been invited into their home and I would think DG would have known that going there. Perhaps and this is only speculation, perhaps DG was going to create a hostage scenario and that is why LE stepped in at that moment rather then let DG proceed and LE take a watch and observe approach. DG knew the hounds were closing in on him and maybe he felt he had nothing to lose.

Woah! What a frightening thought! I think you could be right about this.

It's true, DG was a loner, and the neighbours likely didn't know him well enough and surely would not trust him enough to let him stay there.

Maybe DG was taking a page from FC's book and planned to break in and use those neighbours as leverage. So scary!!!





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[Deleted member 117120]

This is a good point.

Maybe this is way off, but locating DG on the FRONT porch seems far less nefarious than finding him on the BACK porch (which somehow seems more sinister and sneaky, especially considering it was the middle of the night).


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If we could find some aerial photos with a house behind his parents property it would give a better understanding of it.

 

[Sillybilly]

Given he had supposedly already crossed 2 open fields, I think the statement that he was arrested "on the porch of the home behind his family’s property" really just meant the porch attached to the back of his parents' home.

Could be wrong (it's been known to happen :blush

 

[Deleted member 117120]

"Life on Range Road 291 changed forever at 1:30 a.m. on July 14. The quiet street was awash with flashing lights that night as neighbours said Mr. Garland crossed two open fields and was arrested on the porch of the home behind his family’s property."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/airdrie-calgary-struggle-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

We need otto and his map skills for this one!

 

[daniela40]

"Life on Range Road 291 changed forever at 1:30 a.m. on July 14. The quiet street was awash with flashing lights that night as neighbours said Mr. Garland crossed two open fields and was arrested on the porch of the home behind his family’s property."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/airdrie-calgary-struggle-with-grim-puzzle/article19682368/?page=all

We need otto and his map skills for this one!

I wonder if LE observed DG doing something in those two fields he crossed, such as checking on something hidden there?

Where on earth could he have been going. Surely he knew his parents acreage was off limits and going anywhere near there would be in violation of the terms of his release!


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[bakerlady]

Given he had supposedly already crossed 2 open fields, I think the statement that he was arrested "on the porch of the home behind his family’s property" really just meant the porch attached to the back of his parents' home.

Could be wrong (it's been known to happen :blush

This is what I'm thinking.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...2!3m1!1s0x5373e1c7b9d0bec9:0x4a7a60f8f7a68330

Here is the aerial map of the home. The section I have zoomed in on is a mystery to me. Does anyone know what this white square patch is? If you zoom out DG's home is on the right, you can see the trees lining the driveway and all of the other stuff we have already seen.

If you follow two fields back you get to Rt 2 or Queen Elizabeth Highway which seems to me to be where he would have entered the fields.

ETA: If you put a pin on DG's house and then punch in the address for the Motel 6, 133 Gateway Drive NE , you will see he could have easily walked there in a few minutes time by walking.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/133...68330!2m2!1d-113.9665158!2d51.2996838!1m0!3e0

 

[Deleted member 117120]

This is what I'm thinking.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...2!3m1!1s0x5373e1c7b9d0bec9:0x4a7a60f8f7a68330

Here is the aerial map of the home. The section I have zoomed in on is a mystery to me. Does anyone know what this white square patch is? If you zoom out DG's home is on the right, you can see the trees lining the driveway and all of the other stuff we have already seen.

If you follow two fields back you get to Rt 2 or Queen Elizabeth Highway which seems to me to be where he would have entered the fields.

Great question bakerlady. I don't know what that area is in grey.
In response to whether DG was at his parents home when he was arrested I don't believe he was as LE did not say that in their briefs. I take it from the MSM article DG was at a neighbors porch. Not that many neighbors so I wonder which one it could be.

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder if LE observed DG doing something in those two fields he crossed, such as checking on something hidden there?

Where on earth could he have been going. Surely he knew his parents acreage was off limits and going anywhere near there would be in violation of the terms of his release!

Guy doesn't deal well with rules.

 

[otto]

Thank you otto, perhaps LE is hoping if they keep their manpower on this case that within the 30 days evidence will be discovered that could be included in their disclosure. What if any are your thoughts on the family being discovered within this time frame?

I'm not optimistic. When they weren't found on the Airdrie acreage in the first couple of days, I pretty much assumed that they will only be found when someone stumbles onto bones. It seems that murder requires two plans: one to commit the murder, and one to dispose of bodies. Assuming that the June 25 bankruptcy of Winter Petroleum tipped the suspect over the edge, that means four days to hatch a murder plan. There were another four days for the suspect to dispose of bodies after the murders. The suspect had a pretty good head start. I think that someone that grew up in the Airdrie area (rural) in the 1970s should quietly search all the high school party spots from that era. High school party spots for rural students were accessible by truck and in places that parents wouldn't think to look. Today, those spots are probably over grown and forgotten. That's where I would look.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

I'm not optimistic. When they weren't found on the Airdrie acreage in the first couple of days, I pretty much assumed that they will only be found when someone stumbles onto bones. It seems that murder requires two plans: one to commit the murder, and one to dispose of bodies. Assuming that the June 25 bankruptcy of Winter Petroleum tipped the suspect over the edge, that means four days to hatch a murder plan. There were another four days for the suspect to dispose of bodies after the murders. The suspect had a pretty good head start. I think that someone that grew up in the Airdrie area (rural) in the 1970s should quietly search all the high school party spots from that era. High school party spots for rural students were accessible by truck and in places that parents wouldn't think to look. Today, those spots are probably over grown and forgotten. That's where I would look.

Agreed otto, and now that LE have released the farm back to the owners and no announcement has been made on a discovery of the missing family in any form, I concur with your thoughts above. That's not to say that LE did not deem valuable evidence at the farm but sadly does not appear to have been a recovery that the family needs.

 

[supernovaNic]

Can someone remind me. The green pickup that was in the aerial view footage that was NOT DG's - but was on the property next door to DG's? Is that house/property vacant?

 

[roseofsharon]

I'm not optimistic. When they weren't found on the Airdrie acreage in the first couple of days, I pretty much assumed that they will only be found when someone stumbles onto bones. It seems that murder requires two plans: one to commit the murder, and one to dispose of bodies. Assuming that the June 25 bankruptcy of Winter Petroleum tipped the suspect over the edge, that means four days to hatch a murder plan. There were another four days for the suspect to dispose of bodies after the murders. The suspect had a pretty good head start. I think that someone that grew up in the Airdrie area (rural) in the 1970s should quietly search all the high school party spots from that era. High school party spots for rural students were accessible by truck and in places that parents wouldn't think to look. Today, those spots are probably over grown and forgotten. That's where I would look.

I think the bodies are on the route he drove between the L's home and the Airdrie ranch that day. He possibly would have chosen something very quick and probably didn't have to drag or carry the adult bodies anywhere. They may be wrapped in something to avoid being detected at the side of the road and they most likely aren't together. Just MOO

 

[daniela40]

I think the bodies are on the route he drove between the L's home and the Airdrie ranch that day. He possibly would have chosen something very quick and probably didn't have to drag or carry the adult bodies anywhere. They may be wrapped in something to avoid being detected at the side of the road and they most likely aren't together. Just MOO

In my opinion, dumping the bodies off at the side of a road on the way home seems too haphazard for what appears to be a meticulously premeditated crime.

If he knew his parents were away camping and that he had a huge acreage full of chemicals at his disposal, it seems to me he would favor bringing the bodies back to his place. This way he could control every aspect of their disposal and remove as much evidence as possible by "dissolving" it away.

Also, if KL or AL put up any kind of fight at all, then DG's DNA would be under their fingernails, for example.

Just dumping them would be too much of a risk in DG's mind, I believe.


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