Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 June 2014 - #9

[PennyM]

Yes, that was me. I added several posts about this and also discovered that hydrofluoric and hydrochloric acid are both used in oil fields.

Hydrofluoric acid is EXTREMELY dangerous and also deadly if not handled in a chemical fume hood wearing proper safety/body protection. The way they threw it around in the Breaking Bad scene was ridiculous. A drop on the skin can cause a burn that could go through tissue/bone that you may not even notice immediately. I highly doubt the concentrated formula could be found in a hardware store in Canada!

 

[Krystine]

I'm not optimistic. When they weren't found on the Airdrie acreage in the first couple of days, I pretty much assumed that they will only be found when someone stumbles onto bones. It seems that murder requires two plans: one to commit the murder, and one to dispose of bodies. Assuming that the June 25 bankruptcy of Winter Petroleum tipped the suspect over the edge, that means four days to hatch a murder plan. There were another four days for the suspect to dispose of bodies after the murders. The suspect had a pretty good head start. I think that someone that grew up in the Airdrie area (rural) in the 1970s should quietly search all the high school party spots from that era. High school party spots for rural students were accessible by truck and in places that parents wouldn't think to look. Today, those spots are probably over grown and forgotten. That's where I would look.

I am dubious. Like every other Alberta hub, Airdrie has been developed into many, many residential subdivisions and rural acreages in the past 44 years. Farmland is all private property.

 

[goodasgold]

In my opinion, dumping the bodies off at the side of a road on the way home seems too haphazard for what appears to be a meticulously premeditated crime.

If he knew his parents were away camping and that he had a huge acreage full of chemicals at his disposal, it seems to me he would favor bringing the bodies back to his place. This way he could control every aspect of their disposal and remove as much evidence as possible by "dissolving" it away.

Also, if KL or AL put up any kind of fight at all, then DG's DNA would be under their fingernails, for example.

Just dumping them would be too much of a risk in DG's mind, I believe.


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I agree. The LE have more evidence from that farm than we are hearing about. The truck alone would not supply murder charges. Something is tied to that acreage, hence the massive search with all the medical, LE, and firetrucks. Something involved with this crime was on that acreage, and JMO but i feel the bodies were there at some point in those days. (Whether they were already deceased or still alive at that time, is beyond me)

 

[roseofsharon]

What kind of farm is this? TIA

 

[CentralAlberta]

Currently, I don't think any farming went on here. All the outbuildings and machinery are overgrown. My guess is that the land was rented out as hay.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hydrofluoric acid is EXTREMELY dangerous and also deadly if not handled in a chemical fume hood wearing proper safety/body protection. The way they threw it around in the Breaking Bad scene was ridiculous. A drop on the skin can cause a burn that could go through tissue/bone that you may not even notice immediately. I highly doubt the concentrated formula could be found in a hardware store in Canada!

<bbm>

aka "muriatic acid" .. hardware stores still advertise it, but when I was having some renos done a couple of years ago, the fellows wanted it to clean some surfaces and couldn't get it.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

This is what I'm thinking.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...2!3m1!1s0x5373e1c7b9d0bec9:0x4a7a60f8f7a68330


Here is the aerial map of the home. The section I have zoomed in on is a mystery to me. Does anyone know what this white square patch is? If you zoom out DG's home is on the right, you can see the trees lining the driveway and all of the other stuff we have already seen.

If you follow two fields back you get to Rt 2 or Queen Elizabeth Highway which seems to me to be where he would have entered the fields.

ETA: If you put a pin on DG's house and then punch in the address for the Motel 6, 133 Gateway Drive NE , you will see he could have easily walked there in a few minutes time by walking.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/133...68330!2m2!1d-113.9665158!2d51.2996838!1m0!3e0

I had absolutely no idea that the acreage was so close to the city.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Currently, I don't think any farming went on here. All the outbuildings and machinery are overgrown. My guess is that the land was rented out as hay.

Yet DG was anxious to return to work there according to his question to the judge.

 

[PennyM]

<bbm>

aka "muriatic acid" .. hardware stores still advertise it, but when I was having some renos done a couple of years ago, the fellows wanted it to clean some surfaces and couldn't get it.

That one is hydrochloric acid, not hydrofluoric...still corrosive, but wouldn't readily dissolve bone.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

This is what I'm thinking.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/R...2!3m1!1s0x5373e1c7b9d0bec9:0x4a7a60f8f7a68330


Here is the aerial map of the home. The section I have zoomed in on is a mystery to me. Does anyone know what this white square patch is? If you zoom out DG's home is on the right, you can see the trees lining the driveway and all of the other stuff we have already seen.

If you follow two fields back you get to Rt 2 or Queen Elizabeth Highway which seems to me to be where he would have entered the fields.

ETA: If you put a pin on DG's house and then punch in the address for the Motel 6, 133 Gateway Drive NE , you will see he could have easily walked there in a few minutes time by walking.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/133...68330!2m2!1d-113.9665158!2d51.2996838!1m0!3e0

I had absolutely no idea that the acreage was so close to the city.

 

[otto]

Did police check the silo on the property?

 

[otto]

What kind of farm is this? TIA

Looks like wheat.

 

[bakerlady]

<bbm>

aka "muriatic acid" .. hardware stores still advertise it, but when I was having some renos done a couple of years ago, the fellows wanted it to clean some surfaces and couldn't get it.

Muriatic acid is hydrochloric acid and is in every Home Depot in my area in gallon jugs(I checked).

Hydrofluoric acid is sold in auto parts stores as wheel cleaner and possibly hardware stores as it is used in glass etching. I don't think its possible to buy large quantities without someone being suspicious tho.

Lye is readily available in hardware stores and farm supply stores as it is the most common thing used on animal carcasses.

In Breaking Bad Jesse is wearing a gas mask and rubber/plastic gear so I think it is realistic that DG could have done the same. I have a mas like that here from doing home renovations.

Here are some informative links. Not for those with weak stomachs tho....

http://chemistry.about.com/b/2008/02/12/hydrofluoric-acid-breaking-bad.htm

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/12/soluble_dilemma.html

 

[goodasgold]

Looks like wheat.

It has some kind of grain on it because the LE was searching through grain in trucks at one point. There are also graineries on the acreage. So wheat is a good guess.

 

[roseofsharon]

In my opinion, dumping the bodies off at the side of a road on the way home seems too haphazard for what appears to be a meticulously premeditated crime.

If he knew his parents were away camping and that he had a huge acreage full of chemicals at his disposal, it seems to me he would favor bringing the bodies back to his place. This way he could control every aspect of their disposal and remove as much evidence as possible by "dissolving" it away.

Also, if KL or AL put up any kind of fight at all, then DG's DNA would be under their fingernails, for example.

Just dumping them would be too much of a risk in DG's mind, I believe.


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Wow, risking driving about half an hour north with three living or deceased people and confident LE would be nowhere in sight. All part of his arrogance!:scared:

 

[bakerlady]

DG is a crook. I would not put it past him to break into an oil field and steal a few gallons of acid. He might have even had some delivered in the mail. You can order it from several places and his company could have been an easy way to avoid red flags if the suppliers assumed he was legit.

It's possible that could have been the smoking gun in the investigation. Maybe LE found a paper trail leading to large amounts of chemicals and supplies.

Many cases have been solved because some idiot decided to go to Walmart and buy duct tape, trash bags, bleach and gloves....

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

ETA: If you put a pin on DG's house and then punch in the address for the Motel 6, 133 Gateway Drive NE , you will see he could have easily walked there in a few minutes time by walking.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/133...68330!2m2!1d-113.9665158!2d51.2996838!1m0!3e0

Do we know for sure which motel he was staying at? I've never seen that published.
Also, the google map you posted shows the amount of time it would take to get from Motel 6 to the rural property, by vehicle. We don't know he had a vehicle as we do know that LE had seized his green truck so we don't know if he had access to another vehicle. According to google maps, by foot it would have taken 1 hr 16 minutes by foot if going directly on the road and not across fields.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Stan Laurel, been looking for your post since this morning. Very interested ~ with bated breath.

 

[Deleted member 117120]

Someone upthread (sorry cant find post) suggested that perhaps the Winter Petroleum solvency was the catalyst for DG's crimes. Does anyone else believe this as well?

 

[bakerlady]

Do we know for sure which motel he was staying at? I've never seen that published.
Also, the google map you posted shows the amount of it would take to get from Motel 6 to the rural property, by vehicle. We don't know he had a vehicle as we do know that LE had seized his green truck so we don't know if he had access to another vehicle. According to google maps, by foot it would have taken 1 hr 16 minutes by foot if going directly on the road and not across fields.

I got the Motel 6 from this post.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/man-to-face-murder-charges-in-case-of-missing-calgary-boy-grandparents-bodies-not-found-1.1913168
Starting at 00:50, this report says he stayed at a Motel 6 but doesn't say Airdrie. Many other reports stated he was staying in an Airdrie motel that night. It is my opinion that this is the one in Airdrie.
http://www.motel6.com/reservations/motel_detail.aspx?num=5722

This is only a few miles from the Garland acreage so it is possible he walked from the motel. I am not sure why the report states that it is a 20 minute drive from the property, it would only be about 5 minutes.

Then I gathered it was the one in Airdrie from almost every news site out there saying he was in a motel/hotel in Airdrie.

And while the route shows the distance by vehicle it would actually be much shorter on foot if you just crossed over the highway.