CANADA Canada - Ariel Jeffrey Kouakou, 10, Montreal, 12 March 2018

[juli99]

There are multiple exits to that park, I am curious if he could have left through a different exit and not be seen on camera.

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[carbuff]

All this updated and conflicting information is making my thoughts go in a way I'd really rather not think about...

 

[Mel77]

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/j...riel-des-agresseurs-potentiels-rencontres.php

This is an article from La Presse.

I understand the witness saw Ariel before he "seems" walking into the park. Then , they have found some blood near the area where Ariel disappeared but the result of the analyse is negative. What does that mean? How do they know where Ariel disappeared if the witness saw him before he walked into the park?

 

[juli99]

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/j...riel-des-agresseurs-potentiels-rencontres.php

This is an article from La Presse.

I understand the witness saw Ariel before he "seems" walking into the park. Then , they have found some blood near the area where Ariel disappeared but the result of the analyse is negative. What does that mean? How do they know where Ariel disappeared if the witness saw him before he walked into the park?

From my understanding, it says the restaurant camera had footage showing him walking into the park. But his dad has seen the restaurant footage, I thought?

The blood it sounds like was tested but did not match him.

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[katydid23]

The father has said that he wants to ask the witness what Ariel was wearing. That suggests that he does not believe that the witness actually spoke to Ariel. The father is filled with grief, and it is not always easy to deal with other people's grief. On the one hand we want the witness to be compassionate with the family, but on the other hand I would not want to be in a position of being confronted by a grieving family that didn't believe my witness statement.

Why does it suggest the father doesn't believe the witness?

I don't think it means he doesn't 'believe' what the witness has said. I think it means that the father wants to clarify the details and make sure she saw the correct boy.

There was no school that day. There might have been a few boys in that park at that time. How can Dad be certain it was his son she saw, and not another young boy, alone in the park?

I believe the witness is sincere and is telling the truth AS SHE SEES IT. But I wholly believe the father has the right to ask her further questions so he can try and see if it was really his son she spoke to.

Also, you bring up the father's grief quite often, and saying he should not spread his grief to this witness.

But I would think she has some grief already because of the circumstances. She must feel some kind of way about speaking to this lonely sad boy right before he may have died in the river, or been kidnapped in the park. If so, she must be feeling some grief of her own.

Wouldn't she like to know if maybe they boy she spoke to is safe and sound, and not the missing boy? I'd want to know that if I was her.

 

[Taurian34]

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...-ariel-jeffrey-kouakou-missing-almost-2-weeks

 

[matou]

La Presse a frappé à la porte du restaurant. La gérante nous a dit avoir souvent vu le petit Ariel et ses amis jouer dans le stationnement des HLM voisins et près du parc riverain dans le passé.

This says that La Press went to the restaurant and spoke to the manager. She said she had often seen Ariel and his friends playing in the parking lot and near the park in the past. I believe the "HLM" are the apartments near the train tracks.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/j...riel-des-agresseurs-potentiels-rencontres.php

 

[GinaSeikwa]

According to this La Presse article the witness saw him in front of the last house in the north side of Gouin Blvd where she spoke to him.
Afterwards his image was captured by the rooftop camera at the Bordelais where footage shows him entering the park.
So the witness didn’t see him “in” the park.
And yes it was also widely reported that the father has viewed the footage from the Bordelais ( the shadowing figures in the parking lot etc) so why wouldn’t he have also seen his son entering the park?

 

[otto]

Why does it suggest the father doesn't believe the witness?

I don't think it means he doesn't 'believe' what the witness has said. I think it means that the father wants to clarify the details and make sure she saw the correct boy.

There was no school that day. There might have been a few boys in that park at that time. How can Dad be certain it was his son she saw, and not another young boy, alone in the park?

I believe the witness is sincere and is telling the truth AS SHE SEES IT. But I wholly believe the father has the right to ask her further questions so he can try and see if it was really his son she spoke to.

Also, you bring up the father's grief quite often, and saying he should not spread his grief to this witness.

But I would think she has some grief already because of the circumstances. She must feel some kind of way about speaking to this lonely sad boy right before he may have died in the river, or been kidnapped in the park. If so, she must be feeling some grief of her own.

Wouldn't she like to know if maybe they boy she spoke to is safe and sound, and not the missing boy? I'd want to know that if I was her.

It's not really the responsibility of non-investigators to assess the credibility of witnesses. Police have deemed the witness who saw Ariel at the water front at 11:25 as very credible.

Why doesn't the family want to accept this? Why should the witness be placed in such a difficult situation of dealing with a grieving family simply because the family doesn't trust the police?

 

[otto]

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/j...riel-des-agresseurs-potentiels-rencontres.php

This is an article from La Presse.

I understand the witness saw Ariel before he "seems" walking into the park. Then , they have found some blood near the area where Ariel disappeared but the result of the analyse is negative. What does that mean? How do they know where Ariel disappeared if the witness saw him before he walked into the park?

The witness saw him at the waterfront, so he was at the park when the witness saw him.

"Police divers spent Monday and Tuesday searching the waters of Riviere des Prairies, with investigators stating they have a credible witness placing Ariel near the waterfront at the time of his disappearance.

Frederic Kouakou, Ariel’s father, has repeatedly rejected the notion that his son may have fallen in the river. He believes his son was abducted."

https://firenewsfeed.com/news/1322829

 

[otto]

The father does not believe that Ariel went into the water.
A witness claims she saw him at the park at 11:25AM.
Clothes that Ariel was wearing were reported in the news.
The father claims he wants to ask the witness what Ariel was wearing.
Obviously the witness can answer that question, but so could an un-credible witness.

Furthermore, I think the witness testimony is credible based on what Ariel told her, not because of what he was wearing.

Since the father does not believe that Ariel is in the water, wouldn't he prefer to discredit the witness?
Why does he want to speak to the witness?

 

[Phei]

Why does it suggest the father doesn't believe the witness?

I don't think it means he doesn't 'believe' what the witness has said. I think it means that the father wants to clarify the details and make sure she saw the correct boy.

There was no school that day. There might have been a few boys in that park at that time. How can Dad be certain it was his son she saw, and not another young boy, alone in the park?

I believe the witness is sincere and is telling the truth AS SHE SEES IT. But I wholly believe the father has the right to ask her further questions so he can try and see if it was really his son she spoke to.

Also, you bring up the father's grief quite often, and saying he should not spread his grief to this witness.

But I would think she has some grief already because of the circumstances. She must feel some kind of way about speaking to this lonely sad boy right before he may have died in the river, or been kidnapped in the park. If so, she must be feeling some grief of her own.

Wouldn't she like to know if maybe they boy she spoke to is safe and sound, and not the missing boy? I'd want to know that if I was her.

Apparently she's in a state of shock.

 

[Hazel]

reposting Map
Note: See Matou's post for exact location of Ariel's friend home.

Green dots: Ariel walking, caught by CCTV cameras Numbers (1), (2), (3)

Number (1): Garage's CCTV footage

Number (2): Garage's CCTV footage

Number (3): House CCTV footage (Ariel turns twice)

Number (4): Restaurant's CCTV (we've only seen a still image)

Pink dots: pathway towards the park where a witness allegedly saw Ariel around 2 pm.

- CCTV cameras (1) and (2), from the Garage, do not capture the corner of Gouin and the train tracks, where Ariel would most likely have crossed the street.
Google street view here: https://goo.gl/maps/7zCDU3pd8EL2

- CCTV camera (3), from the house, only captures their side of the street, nothing showing the pathway.

Questions:

1) Did Ariel cross the street at any point in time, and headed towards the park (via pathways) after knocking the door at his friend's home, and getting no answer?

2) Does the Restaurant surveillance camera run all the time (24/7), or only activates and records when there is movement around their parking lot?

View attachment 131847

I can't find the video now but the apartment at "Habitations Gouin" where Ariel went is 1124. So it is the middle apartment of the fifth structure in Hazel's map. I am trying to find this video. It may be in Phei's link of a video that has some blank space and afterwards the video begins again. I may have also linked it at some point.

All of the unit numbers are on the grey stone at entrance to the units. https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.5460...4!1sKUIbf4wd_1HGlloakkmrUQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

ETA: corrected to fifth structure

 

[ellabella]

It's not really the responsibility of non-investigators to assess the credibility of witnesses. Police have deemed the witness who saw Ariel at the water front at 11:25 as very credible.

Why doesn't the family want to accept this? Why should the witness be placed in such a difficult situation of dealing with a grieving family simply because the family doesn't trust the police?

Completely agreed. No parent or any other involved love one has the right or should to question witnesses or other participants in a situation. Not trained, obviously emotional, and in some cases the actual perpetrators. Such a bad bad bad precedence.

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[Phei]

This says that La Press went to the restaurant and spoke to the manager. She said she had often seen Ariel and his friends playing in the parking lot and near the park in the past. I believe the "HLM" are the apartments near the train tracks.

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/j...riel-des-agresseurs-potentiels-rencontres.php

Yes HLM are the apartment complexes where Ariel's friend lives, for English speakers HLM means Habitation a Loyer Modique, it's like government subsidized housing for people on low income.

 

[Hazel]

According to this La Presse article the witness saw him in front of the last house in the north side of Gouin Blvd where she spoke to him.
Afterwards his image was captured by the rooftop camera at the Bordelais where footage shows him entering the park.
So the witness didn’t see him “in” the park.
And yes it was also widely reported that the father has viewed the footage from the Bordelais ( the shadowing figures in the parking lot etc) so why wouldn’t he have also seen his son entering the park?

I noticed that the house that captured footage of Ariel turning around twice (number 3 in Map) has TWO surveillance cameras, one on each floor. I had wondered if we have only been shown one footage because that was the only one that captured the sidewalk, and perhaps the other camera only captured the porch area.

Could it be possible the other camera shows images across the street, the pathways that lead towards the park?

Google street view (link in above post #573) shows the 2 surveillance cameras (it's the house with the red fire hydrant).

http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/j...riel-des-agresseurs-potentiels-rencontres.php

 

[otto]

From my understanding, it says the restaurant camera had footage showing him walking into the park. But his dad has seen the restaurant footage, I thought?

The blood it sounds like was tested but did not match him.

Quite true. The uncle was interviewed on the news after watching the footage. He reported blurred figures at a parking garage and suggested that it was the abduction of Ariel. If the footage of Ariel walking to the park is from the restaurant, then the family has seen it.

 

[miele.m]

The father does not believe that Ariel went into the water.
A witness claims she saw him at the park at 11:25AM.
Clothes that Ariel was wearing were reported in the news.
The father claims he wants to ask the witness what Ariel was wearing.
Obviously the witness can answer that question, but so could an un-credible witness.

Furthermore, I think the witness testimony is credible based on what Ariel told her, not because of what he was wearing.

Since the father does not believe that Ariel is in the water, wouldn't he prefer to discredit the witness?
Why does he want to speak to the witness?

Hi Otto

It’s a way of almost hearing your son speak to you, to get as close as you can to hear his words and feel his mood through the last person who seen and spoke to him. It keeps him alive, it’s the only way left to try to hear his voice, his words, feel his mood feel his presence.
It’s not a logical thing. It’s an emotional thing.
You’re so desperate to hear them, be near them in any way you can. It’s as if by speaking to her, you’re getting a chance to re-connect with your son again and bring him near.
It’s not based on logic. It’s a primal instinct you feel when you deeply love someone and miss them so terribly it breaks you.

If I were her, I would speak to him and give him this. It’s the right thing to do even if not required by any law or written logical rule.





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[Phei]

According to this La Presse article the witness saw him in front of the last house in the north side of Gouin Blvd where she spoke to him.
Afterwards his image was captured by the rooftop camera at the Bordelais where footage shows him entering the park.
So the witness didn’t see him “in” the park.
And yes it was also widely reported that the father has viewed the footage from the Bordelais ( the shadowing figures in the parking lot etc) so why wouldn’t he have also seen his son entering the park?

Wait what?!!!!

First it was the witness saw Ariel at the Parc des Bateliers at 2 pm.
Now it's 11:25 am and in front of that last grey house on Gouin that captured Ariel on surveillance cameras, so not even at the park???????????

Either La Presse is not reporting facts accurately or something is REALLY not right here.

 

[otto]

reposting Map
Note: See Matou's post for exact location of Ariel's friend home.

I like your maps! I used to post quite a few here. You include exactly what I want to see - sight lines and pathways.

It's been suggested that there were several routes to leave the park. Would you be able to do an arial view of paths leading into that specific park?