CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[LilyMacBloom]

Thankyou Nicgumshoe and Hazel, The road with the red dotted line looks like a good place to hide and get right up close to AG's house.

From my drive by the laneway you are talking about is AG neighbour and is a "gated" driveway between AG and the cemetary. As the drievway is gated I rather doubt someone could drive up it. Although you could pull over on the roadway and walk up her driveway.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Indeed, he not only "chokes" he gets very worked up about the cake thing.

Another perhaps discrepancy - PK says we made the cake; we were going to deliver the cake; unfortunately Alex had to work that day.......

So, are we to understand that both Alex and Phil were to deliver the cake until plans got changed? Lucky for Alex, only PK found AG dead!

ETA: Lily and I must have posted at the same time - so, to erase confusion, I'm talking about the video posted by Woodland.

 

[LilyMacBloom]

Thanks for the links NSU very interesting and you'all have already picked out some great points.

I simply have to bug my friend to find out if AG's precious engagement ring was:
A- found and LV has it as part of the estate?
B- was the ring the trophy and is missing?
C-was it "willed" to someone else?

IF AG was wearing the ring, my understanding is that the ring was pretty obvious by size and therefore perceived value.

(wish me luck)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Good luck, Lily!

I'm trying to find info about polygraphs. Specifically, who and why they're polygraphed while others who are "young and close" are not tested.

In the case of AG, why weren't the people who lived near enough for their dog to bark at 2.30am not tested? Maybe they were!

Was LV tested? Were any other handymen tested - ie. the guy who installed the convection oven, the paper delivery person, the post office delivery person, the gas station attendant, on and on.........

 

[colette]

To me it looks like he chokes remembering the last time he talked to Audrey, which would be normal thinking back on your last conversation with a friend who died. PK has a great deal of eye contact, unlike the lady in the first clip who looks anyway with every question and is wearing shades.
I really think if PK killed her he would let someone else find the body or go at a time when the wife could make it.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Now, we're coming up to one year from SL's attack and AG's murder. I wonder where these men are hiding. I think they're right under LE's and our noses! Or, one male is right under our noses.......

For sure. That we haven't found him (or them) to date tells us he's very good at hiding in plain site...that he could very well be an organized sk that easily blends in with society. The last person many would suspect.

Hopefully, his cooling off period isn't nearing and end.

One off the wall thought: Assuming the killer is a sk. That sk's don't normally kill people they know is at odds with the concept that AG knew her killer (enough to let her guard down). Maybe, a sk lives in her area and thinks she saw something that could id him. For example, she saw someone bury something on their land, or even something as simple as someone walking around with a shovel.

 

[nicgumshoe]

To me it looks like he chokes remembering the last time he talked to Audrey, which would be normal thinking back on your last conversation with a friend who died. PK has a great deal of eye contact, unlike the lady in the first clip who looks anyway with every question and is wearing shades.
I really think if PK killed her he would let someone else find the body or go at a time when the wife could make it.

But maybe he had to get back to the scene before someone else did. Maybe he killed her b4, then realized his prints are the last ones on the garage door keypad...so he had to discover the body to explain those prints. Or maybe he had to return to the scene because he left something that could id him. Or maybe his tire tracks were the last ones in the drive...so he had to find the body to explain his tracks.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from nicgumshoe:

One off the wall thought: Assuming the killer is a sk. That sk's don't normally kill people they know is at odds with the concept that AG knew her killer (enough to let her guard down). Maybe, a sk lives in her area and thinks she saw something that could id him. For example, she saw someone bury something on their land, or even something as simple as someone walking around with a shovel.


Certainly that's possible! At this rate, anything is possible!!:crazy:

But, in my own very humble opinion, this is what my gut tells me:
- AG knew her killer fairly well
- I doubt her killer fits into one category that the FBI has for killers - rather, I believe he's a cross between 'organised' and 'disorganised'
- I believe FBI Agent M. Safarik - "look young and look close"
- OPP could be correct when they said that SV and SL are not related to AG's killing

Now, what was the motive?
*greed?
*lust/sex?
*revenge?

 

[Woodland]

I agree with your opinion above NSU.

 

[dotr]

Yes, I suppose it could have been a woman, (based on a link I just saw in a post: can't seem to find that post suddenly, but the link was: http://www.lsu.edu/faculty/jpullia/femaleserialkillers.htm)

"money is the motivation for 74% of their killings (Nutt)."

The Will comes to mind for sure.

But the brutality and sexual component make me think otherwise. Do women tend to take trophies?

Top of my head thought on that one is, if say one discovered an affair with one's significant other and was inclined to violence, or perhaps had been the victim of say domestic violence, or even in the early crazy hormone months of pregnancy, yes I could see a jealous really angry woman, rip in and sexually "destroy" the love/sex rival and grab a trophy like a ring or even a body part (thinking here of Bobbitt who"lost it after cheating") hmmm, that would be harder and therefore more gruesome..Thinking too about guys competing in sports and saying things like "I am going to tear you a new a......".Maybe someone did.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

But if in fact it was 'the most gruesome scene Hamilton police have seen in over 20 years', I cannot see this as a female killer. If it merely looked the way PK said - well, maybe. PK was astounded when he heard the police description of it being so very gruesome.

Who to believe?:waitasec:

 

[libyana]

Not to be too graphic, but PK may not have seen what was under AG's coat and maybe her face was spared. It was said her pants were ripped, was this getting them off or on or something else.

 

[libyana]

I have just been to the Timmies near SV's place and all the leaves in the ravine have gone.
You can see her place clearly now. Also there is a camera inside pointed towards the washroom where blood was found early the morning she was murdered.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

If we take libyana's theory, that means severe damage was done to AG BEFORE her coat was placed on her. It's possible. Then when LE arrived or even the 911 people, the gruesome details would be seen.

Good theory!! But wouldn't PK have noticed that AG's coat was on her body in a sloppy manner?

So much to consider.....

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I have just been to the Timmies near SV's place and all the leaves in the ravine have gone.
You can see her place clearly now. Also there is a camera inside pointed towards the washroom where blood was found early the morning she was murdered.

1. Was that camera there prior to SV's murder?

2. When you say "SV's place" do you mean her home?

3. Where did the leaves go - oh, you mean have fallen from the trees so there's now a good view??!!??

Thanks.

 

[nicgumshoe]

Quoted from nicgumshoe:

But, in my own very humble opinion, this is what my gut tells me:
- AG knew her killer fairly well
- I doubt her killer fits into one category that the FBI has for killers - rather, I believe he's a cross between 'organised' and 'disorganised'
- I believe FBI Agent M. Safarik - "look young and look close"
- OPP could be correct when they said that SV and SL are not related to AG's killing

Now, what was the motive?
*greed?
*lust/sex?
*revenge?

I agree for the most part. But I think the one variable that may be off is age. Younger than AG, yes. But not as young as expected. This may be the reason he's been able to remain undetected, and the reason we think both organized and unorganized. An upstanding citizen by all appearances, but an experienced killer. His style is brutality (and he plans it that way) because of a seething rage he keeps bottled up, and the brutality of the scene throws LE off....making them think it's a younger or unorganized perp.

For motive, I dunno. But I'd think power, hatred and revenge (against a former figure in his life).

Who knows? Maybe I've been watching too many crime tv shows

 

[libyana]

I am not sure whether the camera was there before, there is one at the counter a few feet away. Sorry I meant SV's complex where her house is. You cannot see it in the summer, it is very dense with trees and brush.

 

[libyana]

Maybe AG had her coat on but loose, but still you think there would be a lot of blood with multiple stabbings.

 

[libyana]

Wait a minute, if she was on her back [ PK ] saw her open eyes, how could he have not seen something.

 

[dotr]

From my drive by the laneway you are talking about is AG neighbour and is a "gated" driveway between AG and the cemetary. As the drievway is gated I rather doubt someone could drive up it. Although you could pull over on the roadway and walk up her driveway.

Maybe as others have previously suggested, AG contained her dogs, threw on her coat and went to visit the graves of the ones who passed away and returned home feeling emotional and sentimental , had a desire
to convey those feelings in a song.Maybe that whole time, someone was watching and following.What if the reason the sight of AG was not immediately perceived (at least by PK) as especially gruesome, is because whatever happened, took place elsewhere and the 'profane act' was the removal of fluid?Returned, redressed as was previously addressed..(oops, pun )
And one could still ride a bike , or do all of the above in a different setting and AG or someone else driving the car and returning AG in a "clean state ,in a "clean" garage, beside the "clean" car.jmo -for this posting.