CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #3

[No_Stone_Unturned]

To nicgumshoe - you're not seeing things! I deleted the link for 'Female Serial Killers' because it was really lenghthy and it also said (to my understanding) that in AG's case, it's highly unlikely that a woman did it.

Thanks for replacing the link - perhaps others will think differently than I do!

ETA: From nicgumshoe:

But the brutality and sexual component make me think otherwise.

That's precisely my reasoning!

 

[nicgumshoe]

He must have parked a van or car somewhere and maybe approached from the back of the property, it would be risky to be seen in the driveway.

But it might also be riskier to leave footprints in a snowy or muddy area, off the beaten path.

I think if he drove, it was probably right into the driveway...or he parked where he could walk up the driveway. But parking on the road would make the vehicle more visible.

If it was someone she knew, he could always explain tire tracks or footprints in the drive...at least to some degree.

If it was a close neighbor (proximity-wise), then he probably just walked over.

For that time of the year, I'm surprised we didn't hear much about tracks. But then again, it rained later on the 30th, so the killer probably lucked out as most tracks would have melted or deteriorated substantially.

 

[Woodland]

Something else that might have been different was what was going to happen later - say in the spring. Was PK planning to continue working for AG now that a substantial part, or all of his education was complete?

 

[Hazel]

But it might also be riskier to leave footprints in a snowy or muddy area, off the beaten path.

I think if he drove, it was probably right into the driveway...or he parked where he could walk up the driveway. But parking on the road would make the vehicle more visible.

If it was someone she knew, he could always explain tire tracks or footprints in the drive...at least to some degree.

If it was a close neighbor (proximity-wise), then he probably just walked over.

For that time of the year, I'm surprised we didn't hear much about tracks. But then again, it rained later on the 30th, so the killer probably lucked out as most tracks would have melted or deteriorated substantially.

• Ice on pond, barely no snow on the ground
• This link contains the earliest photographs we have seen of the crime scene = ( LINK )
• According to this other link (below), pictures AND VIDEO (link) might have been taken the next day, Friday Dec. 31st.

About 20 officers were dispersed around Gleave's house Friday for "an extensive ground search" for evidence they hope will lead them to the killer or killers, Hrab said.

Just before 11:30 a.m., Gleave's white Camaro was hauled away by an OPP truck.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/12/31/16719181.html

 

[Hazel]

While I was looking for a video taken that same Friday, I found this quote, that I had forgotten about.....could those 'other injuries' refer to the 'trophy"? Whoever the perp is, man or woman, we know it's a coward, to have hurt a helpless old woman, with bad knees and shortness of breath. Why the overkill?

She had been sexually assaulted, stabbed several times and suffered other injuries that were examined during an autopsy Friday.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2011/01/02/16733986.html

 

[Hazel]

Presumably LV and PK did speak at some point after AG's death.

from PK's post:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2


I don't have too many details about all that stuff... AG's estate was settled within a week or two. LV was the executor and sole beneficiary and (as I understand from LV) the value of the estate was approx $500k.

<bbm>

I wish we knew when the Will was dated.

A longtime friend was Lynne Vanstone. She golfed in Brantford with Audrey for years, they often had coffee and Audrey spent some time with Lynne's family.

In 2007, Audrey decided it was time to write her will and made Lynne executor.

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/594717--audrey-s-story-continues

 

[libyana]

In the Spec ariel photo of AG's place, there is a very long driveway to the left. Is this a lane or does it go to someone's property. Many trees there. It was mild at the time she was murdered. foggy and dark with little snow.

 

[libyana]

Ok. I have had a look on google maps. There is a long windy driveway or lane to the left of Audreys house leading possibly to another property behind her. There looks like plenty of places to hide there.

 

[Hazel]

libyana, made this picture asking PK some questions regarding that, here is the link to my post No. 617 (link) from previous thread.

 

[nicgumshoe]

In the Spec ariel photo of AG's place, there is a very long driveway to the left. Is this a lane or does it go to someone's property. Many trees there. It was mild at the time she was murdered. foggy and dark with little snow.

Actually it was below freezing most of the time.

From an older post I did:

(For interest purposes, Lynden temps over that 2010 period:
-Dec 27th was -12C to -2.3C,
-Dec 28th was -6C to -3.3C,
-Dec 29th was -6.9C to -2.1C,
-Dec 30th was -8.7C to 4.3C.
Presumably it wouldn't have gone above, or much above 0C, until after the discovery).

 

[Hazel]

Like I said before, it's probably just that Poplar Street is a very common name...a recent missing person case I'm following at the moment also has a Poplar St. very close to where this 19 yo girl disappeared while walking from point A to B ( C being Poplar St.)

MAP : http://g.co/maps/veswf

her thread: CANADA Canada - Amber Kirwan, 19, New Glasgow, Nova Scotia, 9 Oct 2011

 

[libyana]

Thankyou Nicgumshoe and Hazel, The road with the red dotted line looks like a good place to hide and get right up close to AG's house.

 

[Woodland]

Regarding the weather data, Hamilton historic data shows snow 28 December 2010 from 3:00 pm to 10:00 pm and 29 December 2010 from 9:00 am to 1:00 pm. On 30 December 2010 it rained from 11:00 am (when AG was found) to 1:00 pm.

Brantford weather data is not as detailed but shows traces of snow on 28 and 29 December 2010 and traces of rain on 30 December 2010.

 

[shadowraiths]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of a female perp. Esp if it turns out the sexual component was staged. That might actually strengthen the argument that it was a female and not a male who murdered Audrey.

The problem is, we still do not know what that sexual component was. Or, for that matter, the "trophy" that was allegedly taken. Imo, knowing both of those could help to, at the very least, clarify whether (or not) it was staged. And might even give some insight wrt gender.

Since we won't get that info, then it's all still speculation. So we still end up back at square one. Is the perp an ex-student? One of her friends? Someone she met online?

It's really hard to know.

 

[dotr]

Here's an article about taking trophies:

http://www.johndouglasmindhunter.com/articles/030213.php

ETA: And this is interesting:

http://www.enotes.com/serial-killers-reference/serial-killers

ETA again: This is really insightful:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/forensics-profiling-the-perpetrator.html

Thanks for all the great links ,it came down to this question in the list for me.

" •What motive or fantasy drove the killer to harm the victim in the particular manner at the particular time and location?"

 

[dotr]

I can see someone notice that AG lives a nice life on her own terms , driving her spiffy car with her status dogs and even having the ultimate status symbol, a handyman who is attractive, young and capable,an academic who even spoils the lucky lady with her favorite homemade goods. I imagine some bitter jealous soul watching, judging, hating both teacher and teacher's pet and waiting for the just the right moment to "fix somebody's wheel".

 

[nicgumshoe]

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the possibility of a female perp. Esp if it turns out the sexual component was staged. That might actually strengthen the argument that it was a female and not a male who murdered Audrey.

The problem is, we still do not know what that sexual component was. Or, for that matter, the "trophy" that was allegedly taken. Imo, knowing both of those could help to, at the very least, clarify whether (or not) it was staged. And might even give some insight wrt gender.

Since we won't get that info, then it's all still speculation. So we still end up back at square one. Is the perp an ex-student? One of her friends? Someone she met online?

It's really hard to know.

True! But I think we can deduce (or induce...i forget which is which), certain things based on LE's actions. For example, based on the DS arrest and the heavy questioning and LD test of PK, we can assume LE feel the perp is male.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I agree that we can deduce that the killer is a male. I think we can also conclude that DLS was a fall guy for LE when pressure to convict became great from the public.

Now, we're coming up to one year from SL's attack and AG's murder. I wonder where these men are hiding. I think they're right under LE's and our noses! Or, one male is right under our noses.......

 

[Woodland]

Not sure if this video was posted before - an interesting interview with PK just before and just after the funeral service. I'm wondering why he chokes when giving the timeline surrounding arriving with the cake.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplayGenContent.aspx?e=18522

 

[nicgumshoe]

Not sure if this video was posted before - an interesting interview with PK just before and just after the funeral service. I'm wondering why he chokes when giving the timeline surrounding arriving with the cake.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplayGenContent.aspx?e=18522

That is an interesting clip for sure. I played that over and over, and also wondered about his lack eye contact with the reporter.

Was he buying time with that choke, to get his story in order? Maybe. But under the circumstances, it's hard to say. Maybe it was genuine emotion.

His wife doesn't look nervous at all.

It would be interesting to know if she got called into work after the plan to drop off the cake on Thursday. Because he says "we intended to drop by" (on the Thursday)...but then mentions "but unfortunately A had to work".

But according to PK in the video, the cake was made b4 xmas. "We made it and we were gonna drop by on Christmas day with it".

Now, that would have been one old cake by the 30th, no?