CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

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Just some random comments ...

So I am thinking that AG must have told PK about her friend LV because in AG's email to PK regarding the soup, AG just uses LV's first name "Lynn" is bringing soup.

I think if PK didn't know who LV was, AG would have phrased it ... my friend Lynn is bringing some soup.

Regarding post #273.

According to the obituary, LV's mom died unexpectedly in July 2010. Two grandchildren are mentioned, JV, and LV, however, LV had two brothers, so I'm not sure if they are Robert's children.

I'm not positive, but I believe JV and LV are brother and sister and are grown children.

I have always been puzzled as to why, if someone has brought you soup because you are under the weather, you would be well enough to then go out with your dogs to the vet for vitamins :waitasec:. The dogs were not sick, could that trip not have waited, until AG was feeling better. Wouldn't vitamins for the dogs have been something that would have been picked up well before xmas. A lot of businesses are closed between xmas and new year and I would think a vet's office would only deal with emergency calls during that time, not just the sale of a couple of bottles of vitamins.

Why would AG, whom was so adamant about not exposing oneself to others when ill and spreading germs, go to her vet while fighting a virus. This does not make sense either.

Was the trip to the vet, the trip that lead to AG's demise. Did she cut someone off in her car and the person so enraged, they followed her home?

Did AG order some type of food that she had delivered and did that driver return?

One day, while passing through Lynden at the four corners, a young male was standing at the end of a driveway having a cigarette. As we approached the stop sign, all I can say is, if looks could kill and this made me think "young and close".

IMO
 
roseofsharon said:
Just some random comments ...

So I am thinking that AG must have told PK about her friend LV because in AG's email to PK regarding the soup, AG just uses LV's first name "Lynn" is bringing soup.

I think if PK didn't know who LV was, AG would have phrased it ... my friend Lynn is bringing some soup.

...

I have always been puzzled as to why, if someone has brought you soup because you are under the weather, you would be well enough to then go out with your dogs to the vet for vitamins :waitasec:. The dogs were not sick, could that trip not have waited, until AG was feeling better. Wouldn't vitamins for the dogs have been something that would have been picked up well before xmas. A lot of businesses are closed between xmas and new year and I would think a vet's office would only deal with emergency calls during that time, not just the sale of a couple of bottles of vitamins.

Why would AG, whom was so adamant about not exposing oneself to others when ill and spreading germs, go to her vet while fighting a virus. This does not make sense either.

Was the trip to the vet, the trip that lead to AG's demise. Did she cut someone off in her car and the person so enraged, they followed her home?

Did AG order some type of food that she had delivered and did that driver return?
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<rsbm>

I've wondered if someone was confused between the neighbour Linda and the Brantford friend Lynne.

Which prompts me to ask, how did it transpire that PK was at Audrey's house before the cleanup started? Did LV invite PK, or did PK invite himself, or did he just show up?

WRT the vet visit, that is still up in the air as to when that occurred. Dr. Collins was retired and seems he worked out of his home, so could just be that with a 30 year friendship and their love of animals in common, Christmas/News Years didn't factor in. But I agree that it would have made more sense to go beforehand, otherwise how would AG know that she wasn't interrupting family gatherings, etc.

Yes, the whole germy thing is puzzling ... if she was that obsessive about not spreading germs, her visit to an elderly vet and giving him hugs doesn't fit well into that scenario.

Good point about food delivery ... was AG known to order in? If she was in fact ill, did she feel like eating at all, or just order something.

JMO
 
About killers inserting themselves into the 'action' - it's well-known that killers very often attend the funerals of their victims. That's why those funerals are filled with LE and (often) filmed by LE. Just to see who's there and why.

:twocents:
 
Quoted from sillybilly:

<<< Which prompts me to ask, how did it transpire that PK was at Audrey's house before the cleanup started? Did LV invite PK, or did PK invite himself, or did he just show up? >>>



After all these pages, for some reason I MISSED this point. :blushing: My humble guess is that he just showed up!!

Another point - was he trying to get into the house while LE were doing their forensics/trace evidence? How will we ever know? Did he tip LE off about DLS living so close to Audrey?
 
Woodland said:
Det-Sgt IM - Hamilton PD - mentions in the article posted a couple of pages back that he is having forensic testing done inside and outside of Canada.

Is the Will one of those items? Can ink be dated?
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No_Stone_Unturned said:
Quoted from sillybilly:

<<< Which prompts me to ask, how did it transpire that PK was at Audrey's house before the cleanup started? Did LV invite PK, or did PK invite himself, or did he just show up? >>>



After all these pages, for some reason I MISSED this point. :blushing: My humble guess is that he just showed up!!

Another point - was he trying to get into the house while LE were doing their forensics/trace evidence? How will we ever know? Did he tip LE off about DLS living so close to Audrey?
Click to expand...

PK told us that LE called him in to see if anything was missing (or was it to say exactly what was missing?) - and likely it was part of considering him a POI. He'd been asked here if it looked to him as though Audrey had been dragged into the garage, and didn't see any drag marks or indications as such.

Since he, and not LV, was more familiar with the interior of the house, it seems natural to me that he'd step up to be part of the cleanup (and who knows, maybe do some looking of his own for clues in the process - I know that's what I'd be inclined to do in a similar situation).

I must be sounding like a broken record on this, but concur with GT and SB that PK's behaviour is more that of a shocked and saddened young guy coming to terms with the loss of a good friend than a perp or someone with inside info. And again, I could see whoever was behind the murder thinking that if PK could be the one to be "caught" with the body, the question could reasonably be asked if he'd done the deed. If he were eventually proven to have been the killer, I'd be really surprised. PK might be young, and might have been close - however, it seems just a little too easy to look there. :twocents:

As for the pointing to DLS, that individual would not have been a welcome addition in the first place to that area as I know it (not well, but well enough). Throw in some stories about him being a troublemaker in Brantford, mentally ill, and prone to outbursts including 'going after' someone with an axe - and I'd say LE probably received lots of tips immediately about DLS. Maybe the tipsters included PK, maybe not. I wouldn't think he'd actually be aware of DLS, as the two men occupied completely different social circles. I remember when news went around six weeks after the murder that "That homeless guy" had been arrested, a sigh of relief went up that could probably be heard for a hundred km around. It just seemed completely logical: homeless, mentally ill vagrant carrying a knife arrested at the time of Audrey's murder. Then, naturally, as word spread that the "friend" who discovered her body was a young man who did handyman work around her place, suspicion descended next upon him.

Sorry, blathering now. I just have an eerie sense :eek: of whoever killed Audrey Gleave thinking there are lots of people on LE radar to keep them busy for quite a while.:eek:hoh:
 
LeftCoaster said:
PK told us that LE called him in to see if anything was missing (or was it to say exactly what was missing?) - and likely it was part of considering him a POI. He'd been asked here if it looked to him as though Audrey had been dragged into the garage, and didn't see any drag marks or indications as such.
Click to expand...
<rsbm>

PK's answers in response to questions we had asked much earlier in this case:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2


@ No_Stone_Unturned (#477)
- The garage was connected to the house by a door. I'm sorry I can't really comment on whether I think she was dragged out of the house&#8230; when LE had me revisit the garage after her body was removed to try and identify missing objects, I didn't see any streaks between the door to the house and where she was found ...

@ dotr (#520)
- I'm not sure! (For obvious reasons) I didn't go inside the house so I'm not sure where the dogs were confined. ...@ Hazel (#530)

- Great point!!! When I was in the house a few days later (before the cleaning had started) it didn't seem like two dogs had been unattended in the house for any extended period of time! ...
Click to expand...


At no time has he mentioned that LE had him go into the house, only in the garage to see if there were items missing from there.
 
Respectfully, LeftC, AG may have discussed DLS with PK, as I believe the people living on Indian Trail were well aware of him.

I think I posted this thought quite some time ago, but I would imagine the Indian Trail community were quite disgruntled (understatement) with DLS taking up residence in an abandoned barn in their community.

With that thought in mind, could it be that AG was a means to an end.

In order for the community to be rid of DLS, did a neighbour commit this crime, knowing that LE would immediately focus on DLS as the perp.

I would think most of the residents on Indian Trail would know who lives alone and AG's was the last home just before an open stretch of road. AG knew her killer according to LE.

Just another thought regarding motive and imo.
 
FWIW, where DLS lived is not in that close proximity to the neighbourhood where Audrey lived. The abandoned barn is near the intersection of Lynden Rd and Garden Avenue (Indian Trail becomes Lynden Rd which then becomes Regional Rd 11 which then goes back to being called Lynden Rd where it meets up with Garden Avenue). It is considered to be in Brantford and is about 7.7 km from AG's addy.

I recall it being said that DLS used to ride his bike on Indian Trail, but can't recall the source of that particular tidbit. It seems to be a copy/paste in the various MSM articles, with no sources quoted:

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&sugexp=...cGE&fp=27d97889fa60eed0&biw=1145&bih=574&bs=1
 
There is one post of PK's that I've been trying to find, to no avail, so much so that I was starting to think I had imagined it.

Luckily, found it being discussed on UC. PK had mentioned LV purchasing a new car, and LE questioning where she got the money.

Perhaps one of you can have better luck than me locating PKs post here in WS.

Here is the link to UC's post #131:
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4489.msg76956#msg76956
 
Hazel said:
There is one post of PK's that I've been trying to find, to no avail, so much so that I was starting to think I had imagined it.

Luckily, found it being discussed on UC. PK had mentioned LV purchasing a new car, and LE questioning where she got the money.

Perhaps one of you can have better luck than me locating PKs post here in WS.

Here is the link to UC's post #131:
http://www.unsolvedcanada.ca/index.php?topic=4489.msg76956#msg76956
Click to expand...

For strong personal reasons, I don't visit that site. Does the poster give a link to their source?

There is nothing in any of PK's posts here that alludes to that, but it does make sense that LE might ask him that question .. to see how much he knew of her personal finances.
 
Hazel I don't visit UC BUT I do remember what you're talking about. Someone posted here on WS that LV had recently purchased a new car.

Perhaps it was a WSer who also uses the UC site? And I'll try to help you find that info/link here on WS later on.

Now, about the handyman 'going into the house before the clean-up'. Does he mean after the murder? I don't recall him saying that 'LE took me inside to look around'. Obviously, I could very easily be mistaken.:blushing:

Is anyone here able to clear that up for me/us?

Thanks.
 
Hazel - could that be the missing post from this site? I'm pretty sure the missing post is not in a thread that has been removed, but was in his early discussion on thread #2.

What does PK mention besides LV's new car?
 
I don't see LE taking PK through the garage only - doesn't make sense in light of the dogs having been confined. That gave the killer free range.
 
I believe it was concerned neighbours who tipped the police off about the "crazy man" who lived in a barn, if my memory is correct.

DW
 
Woodland said:
I don't see LE taking PK through the garage only - doesn't make sense in light of the dogs having been confined. That gave the killer free range.
Click to expand...

Sorry Woodland would you kindly explain further?:blushing:

Do you mean that LE took him through the entire house?

Or, LE didn't take him anywhere?

Or, LE took him around the property?

Thanks.
 
Questions/Comments about who knew whom:

- did LV ever meet/see the handyman in person?

- did LV know the people in the coffee group?

- did the neighbours ever really meet the handyman or did they just see his car and him doing the yardwork?

- did Audrey regularly e-mail the coffee group people with jokes, comics and music?

- are the coffee group people POIs?

- is LV a POI?
 
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