CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[Hazel]

“No reasonable prospect of conviction.”

Those five words spoken in court on Friday, June 3, 2011, by Hamilton assistant Crown attorney Warren Milko, kicked the Audrey Gleave murder investigation back to square one. Perhaps further back than that.

Milko said the threshold for determining “reasonable prospect of conviction” requires the Crown to consider the availability and admissibility of evidence, credibility of witnesses, and possible defences that might be used in the case.

He said that threshold had not been reached.

“Accordingly, the Crown is requesting that the charge against Mr. David Scott be withdrawn.”
<<rsbm>>

Terri-Lynn Collings, a spokesperson for Hamilton Police, said officers will not comment on the case because the investigation is ongoing. She did say that “no one has been ruled out as a suspect.”

http://news.ca.msn.com/ontario/hamilton/audrey%E2%80%99s-case-gets-colder

 

[Hazel]

Still unsure about the DNA aspect of the case. Was DNA recovered that did not match DLS, or was there no identifiable DNA at all?
Did it match PK or anyone else who had been at the house, or if it did- is it inadmissible because the DNA could have been left there prior to the murder?
Seeing Silly's great timeline, I suddenly realized that Audrey had not been retired for very long- about 3 years- and wondered if someone resented her new presence and perhaps different hours kept as a retiree?

Thank you dotr, that's interesting. It also reminds me reading something about her paying off the mortgage around that time? Now, were did I read that? :coffeews:
Will go look for that, since that would make a good addition for the Timeline.

BTW, wouldn't it be 4-1/2 years, assuming Audrey retired at the end of the school year, June 2006? (June 2006 to Dec. 2010)

2006 Audrey retired from Westdale Secondary

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8795828&postcount=368

 

[Sillybilly]

AG lived in Ancaster since 1973. Why on earth does her Will state Brantford in 2007?? That really bugs me.

Does anyone else recall that Audrey wished to be buried beside her pets but that was supposedly not permissible in Ontario? Section 4.3 makes reference to a memorandum. Her burial/cremation wishes are not in the Will, so this leads me to believe there was a memorandum to her Will. If the only thing contained in the memorandum was wrt her burial, then the memorandum was unnecessary because that could have been incorported into her LWT with one tiny paragraph. So, what else was in that memorandum?

The weird thing about that Will is all the unnecessary gobblydegook about this, that, the other thing when it basically boiled down to LV is Executor and LV gets all. Why the reference to minors (who?), Specific Gifts section (what? who?), gifts other than residue (to who?), education/maintenance/benefit/advancement of a beneficiary (who?), power to distribute land/personal property (to who?), power to purchase assets of the estate (huh?)

LV is the be all and end all in that Will and everything else is just plain superfluous. Why?

It's 4:40 am ... billy must go to bed or i will start to say really silly stuff again

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

For what it's worth, POSSIBLE killers of Audrey:

- someone we've NEVER heard of from LE, from her past, from anyone/anywhere

- a crazed maniac wandering around looking for his thrills

- *I* think the killer is male - females tend to not use "bloody, messy" methods....rather females tend to use poison, etc.

- a "young and close" person who came home to the Ancaster area for the holidays

- let's rule out the sex trade industry UNLESS Audrey was leading a double life

- someone working for GM and knew Audrey because of her Camaro


BTW: It's not unusual for *some* teachers to remain in the profession well past their 90-factor. It's good money, they enjoy teaching and it's a worthy thing to do. In my opinion, that's why Audrey remained in teaching for such a long time.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

What *I* have a difficult time believing to be true/factual:

- Audrey being "under the weather"

- then, the "secondary infection"

- Audrey NOT making plans for her beloved dogs should she die/become incapacitated

- Audrey leaving all of her money/worldly goods to LV and NOT some of it to a dog/animal charity

- I highly doubt that Audrey herself sent the two "Amazing Grace" vids

- the handyman being the ONLY ONE to have the garage code - why not also include LV as a dear friend of 30+ years

- Audrey not making arrangements for her own funeral - where, how, when, religious/not religious

- the statement "being raped and murdered" - was it just a simple spur of the moment thing such as this - ' If it rains one more day I'll jump off a cliff ' type of thing we all tend to say especially when we're feeling down

- the soup delivery!

- the gardening and planting flowers/bushes/etc.

- the only TWO people (that we know of) being inside the house is the handyman and the guy who installed the convection oven

- Audrey not having a document for 'Bodily Care' (sorry, I forget what it's called at the moment) - having someone to be in charge of her health wishes should she suffer a stroke, etc.

Many, many questions...............

 

[dotr]

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/596070--who-killed-audrey-gleave
Hamilton Spec.Jon Wells
"About a month before she died, vandals had busted up her old one, he said. She &#8220;hated the guts&#8221; of whoever did it. She bought a new mailbox, and when she discovered that a part was missing, she recruited Phil to drive with her to the hardware store.

Audrey found the spare part on a shelf and stuffed it inside her big parka. She had Phil run interference, make sure no one was watching, and they scurried out the door. All this, even though she could have simply asked for the part at the counter.

&#8220;She was so excited, it was her big night,&#8221; Phil said. &#8220;It was awesome.&#8221;

The other speaker at the memorial was Lynne Vanstone, whom Audrey had appointed in her will as trustee. (The will lists her house at a net value of $425,000, and personal property at $50,622.87.)

Lynne handled all the arrangements. She could not fulfil Audrey's request to bury her ashes in the pet cemetery beside two of her previous German shepherds &#8212; that is illegal in Ontario. Friends said the ashes were sprinkled on the golf course in Brantford instead.

Her beloved dogs, Togi and Schatze, were reportedly assessed by animal control to see if they had suffered trauma during the murder, with the intention of putting them up for adoption. Audrey had already purchased two plots for the dogs for when they died.



The words concerning the mailbox, ironically and tragically, could be applied to describe elements of Audrey's murder.
Maybe A and P actually were observed taking the mailbox part ..maybe A played such "games" with others ,maybe someone really snapped after being played the fool...


Bbm, the latter portion of post was in response to NSU's dog queries.

 

[Woodland]

That was very observant dotr! Eerily similar.

 

[Hazel]

Thank you dotr, that's interesting. It also reminds me reading something about her paying off the mortgage around that time? Now, were did I read that? :coffeews:
Will go look for that, since that would make a good addition for the Timeline.

BTW, wouldn't it be 4-1/2 years, assuming Audrey retired at the end of the school year, June 2006? (June 2006 to Dec. 2010)

Didn't find anything about Audrey paying off her mortgage around that time. I think that was something I just assumed, when we found out she only had $50,000 in her bank account.

All those years of teaching, and from what we know it seems the convection oven and the Camaros were her only big purchases. I am also guessing she either sold or gave the old Camaro as trade-in when getting the new one, so now I am wondering when did Audrey pay off the house mortgage?

Also good question rose, regarding life insurance.

:waitasec: Could that bank account have only been for her teacher's pension cheques/Teacher's Retirement Fund, and could she have her life-long savings account somewhere else? (abroad?)

 

[Woodland]

I agree with what you say in your post #409 NSU.

What's missing from AG's Will is the Power of Attorney for Personal Care and Power of Attorney for Property. If one is making a Will and following a kit or using a lawyer, these are standard items to include - they are separate from the Will, but mentioned in the body of the Will and attached.

To me, the Will reads as if the author knew such things would not be required.

 

[Woodland]

Left out the killer sending the e-mail to someone in the coffee group, cancelling the Wed meeting in my theory.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Now I'm wondering if Audrey had a spiteful side. I KNOW we're all made up of yin and yang, but (for me) using the words "hate/hated/hatred" are a no-no. I prefer to say "I dislike.......". It's probably splitting hairs and merely semantics, but one must ask.......was Audrey (outwardly) a nasty person? Did she treat some people unkindly?

Perhaps this entire case lies in Audrey's actions towards others.

Nevertheless, no one deserves what Audrey got. I'm just tossing it out there as food for thought.

:blushing:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From Woodland's post:

<<< To me, the Will reads as if the author knew such things would not be required. >>>


Yes, but what if the person who knew Audrey's wishes becomes incapacitated/dies? My husband and I both know what we want, but we still have it in writing!

 

[Woodland]

We don't know if AG actually used the term 'hated the guts of' etc.

Another friend said, re-posted recently, AG wouldn't hurt a fly. Another friend said, in a video re-posted recently, that AG was always calm and never lost her cool.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

We don't know if AG actually used the term 'hated the guts of' etc.

Another friend said, re-posted recently, AG wouldn't hurt a fly. Another friend said, in a video re-posted recently, that AG was always calm and never lost her cool.

Many thanks for the correction! So......did we get the "hated" quote from the handyman?:waitasec:

Regarding "always calm and never lost her cool" I took that to mean in the classroom/school/staff meetings. :twocents:

 

[Hazel]

For what it's worth, POSSIBLE killers of Audrey:

- someone we've NEVER heard of from LE, from her past, from anyone/anywhere
Absolutely! We have practically only heard of a handful of people, but could be someone related to or friends of the handful of people we've heard of. MOO

- a crazed maniac wandering around looking for his thrills
Hmmm, just my opinion only, but I truly don't think this was the case. Also, LE has already said it was someone known to her.
If it had been a crazed/maniac, there would have been a lot of evidence, and from what DLS's lawyer said, seems to me that the killer didn't leave a lot of evidence.
Which in turn leads me to believe that the killer either cleaned up afterwards or more like Woodland's theory, killer(s) went "prepared", maybe protective clothing, gloves, etc.

I have also been thinking that, IF planned, could the killer have gotten some ideas after learning of SL's attack, and wanted LE and everyone to think there was a connection or that it was a random attack? JMHO


- *I* think the killer is male - females tend to not use "bloody, messy" methods....rather females tend to use poison, etc.
Not necessarily only male. For all we know, it could have been both male and female, working together (if more than one killer). Just a thought and :moo:


- a "young and close" person who came home to the Ancaster area for the holidays

IMHO, the "Holidays" only means that the killer thought it was the time of year when less people would have noticed Audrey's absence. Maybe killer(s) didn't know PK was going to drop-off the cake that Thursday. Maybe killer(s) expected she would have been found the next week, and it was not in the 'plan' she will be found that soon.
I always wondered WHY the killer closed the garage door upon leaving, and risk some neighbour/person walking by could hear the noise, and notice perp leaving.
Also perp might not have known that PK had been given the garage keypad code. It would have taken some time until someone realized something was wrong, and called LE to check on Audrey. JMHO :twocents:


- let's rule out the sex trade industry UNLESS Audrey was leading a double life
I totally agree with you in this one.

- someone working for GM and knew Audrey because of her Camaro
I don't see the relevance here. I imagine Audrey met lots of people in her 73 years. From LV we learned that Audrey loved shopping at Costco; so are we to include people that works there too, considering she shopped there a lot more often than at GM? MOO :twocents:


BTW: It's not unusual for *some* teachers to remain in the profession well past their 90-factor. It's good money, they enjoy teaching and it's a worthy thing to do. In my opinion, that's why Audrey remained in teaching for such a long time. :twocents:

Good point about "it's good money", so where is all the "good money" from all those years of teaching? Unless she had been paying mortgage until recently, I don't see how/where she spent/saved/invested it all.

My opinions in purple (all just :moo: and :twocents: )

 

[Sillybilly]

Many thanks for the correction! So......did we get the "hated" quote from the handyman?:waitasec:

Regarding "always calm and never lost her cool" I took that to mean in the classroom/school/staff meetings. :twocents:

I firmly believe the "hated the guts of" came entirely from PK, not Audrey. In the telling/retelling of the mailbox story, he went from the rather mild scenario of "random prank", turned into "drove her bananas", which escalated to "she hated the guts of".

 

[flipflop]

Didn't find anything about Audrey paying off her mortgage around that time. I think that was something I just assumed, when we found out she only had $50,000 in her bank account. All those years of teaching, and from what we know it seems the convection oven and the Camaros were her only big purchases. I am also guessing she either sold or gave the old Camaro as trade-in when getting the new one, so now I am wondering when did Audrey pay off the house mortgage?

Also good question rose, regarding life insurance.

:waitasec: Could that bank account have only been for her teacher's pension cheques/Teacher's Retirement Fund, and could she have her life-long savings account somewhere else? (abroad?)

The will lists her house at a net value of $425,000, and personal property at $50,622.87, where are you getting that she only had 50K in the bank?

 

[Hazel]

the will lists her house at a net value of $425,000, and personal property at $50,622.87, where are you getting that she only had 50k in the bank?

50k = 50,000 ok flipflop, granted, it was $622.87 more

 

[flipflop]

50k = 50,000 ok flipflop, granted, it was $622.87 more

I count the 50K of personal property as objects and possessions, things found in her house....furniture, appliances, antiques, belongings etc. I would not consider her money in her bank as her personal property. JMO

 

[Hazel]

I count the 50K of personal property as objects and possessions, things found in her house....furniture, appliances, antiques, belongings etc. I would not consider her money in her bank as her personal property. JMO

I don't recall we ever heard anything about value of her appliances, furniture, belongings, etc. Do you have a link regarding that?

All I recall is talk about the value of her house, money in her bank account, Camaro, new convection oven and her beautiful snake ring.