CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

[whiterhino]

I don't think we know if her cigarettes/lighter were with her or still in the house do we?

I suppose I should have included a disclaimer for that sentence -_- I read somewhere that no cigarettes, lighter, keys, purse etc were found with AG. Not sure if it was here in the timeline/fact thread or if I read it elsewhere (or both? I believe I was over on unsolved, read that statement & came here to check the timeline).

Did AG even smoke in her garage? Even if it is in fact true that no cigarettes etc were found on/with her, that doesn't mean she didn't keep a spare pack and an ashtray out in the garage. I'm basically just going over different reasons for why AG was in the garage. Smoking a cigarette being one good explanation. Another disclaimer: Sorry if I've missed or been unclear with some facts, I'm still kinda new around here & understand how annoying that can be for more seasoned members!

 

[Sillybilly]

I’m having trouble understanding / reconciling two separate statements made by PK in a couple of his posts:

From:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...caster-ON-30-Dec-2010-2&p=6990415#post6990415

The dogs were confined away from the area where AG was found. Although it wasn't especially unlikely for AG to confine them away from this area during the day, I cant imagine her in this area in the middle of the night. Hopefully that isn't uselessly cryptic?

From:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...caster-ON-30-Dec-2010-2&p=7169371#post7169371

Actually AG really liked stars and so it wasn't impossible for her to go outside extremely late at night for a smoke to look at the sky and let the dogs run.

IF AG was found in the garage, why on one hand do we have he can’t imagine AG in this area in the middle of the night, but on the other hand saying it wasn’t impossible for her to go out extremely late at night to lok at the sky and let the dogs run?

Is the first statement in reference to the area where the dogs were confined, or to where Audrey was found? Does “wasn’t especially unlikely” mean it is likely they were in the garage during the day but not at night? If so, then how do we reconcile her looking at stars extremely late at night and letting the dogs run while doing so?

 

[loveisthemovement]

This is AG parked at some kind of a plaza, it looks to me like it is a drive-through of some kind, although I don't recognize the sign there where the cars are going through. Maybe a drive-through (like for coffee or something) that is attached to a convenience store.

RSBM

I am pretty sure that is a Tim Hortons drive thru.

 

[dotr]

In thinking about this case, after such a long break from it, I've started to wonder how much Audrey valued integrity in others. It's been said she didn't tolerate fools. Her and PK connected on an intellectual and almost mother/son-professor/student level. That's one relationship I can understand. But what if AG was confronted with something that she just couldn't tolerate? Had she witnessed someone doing something that she couldn't tolerate? Had someone forged a cheque on her bank account? Was someone having an affair? I'm wondering if AG had offered her advise to someone to come clean on something or if someone thought that AG had seen something and it was easier to kill her than ever be exposed?

rbbm.

This kind of situation would not surprise me, imo.

 

[deugirtni]

RSBM

I am pretty sure that is a Tim Hortons drive thru.

The drive-thru sign doesn't look like a Tim Horton's sign to me. I blew it up and I couldn't place it.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

<modsnip>

A few days ago, it was a surprise for me to read, that Audrey had confined her dogs most of the day. Until then I had understood, she confined them by night or if someone was visiting, whom the dogs didn't like so much.
I will try to find the link.

 

[colette]

I&#8217;m having trouble understanding / reconciling two separate statements made by PK in a couple of his posts:

From:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...caster-ON-30-Dec-2010-2&p=6990415#post6990415



From:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...caster-ON-30-Dec-2010-2&p=7169371#post7169371



IF AG was found in the garage, why on one hand do we have he can&#8217;t imagine AG in this area in the middle of the night, but on the other hand saying it wasn&#8217;t impossible for her to go out extremely late at night to lok at the sky and let the dogs run?

Is the first statement in reference to the area where the dogs were confined, or to where Audrey was found? Does &#8220;wasn&#8217;t especially unlikely&#8221; mean it is likely they were in the garage during the day but not at night? If so, then how do we reconcile her looking at stars extremely late at night and letting the dogs run while doing so?

Maybe he was trying to say if she was out at night, smoking and looking at the stars she would have had her dogs with her.

 

[Sillybilly]

To be perfectly clear, PK was simply responding to posts where other posters were discussing night .. he did not initiate the discussion in that regard or indicate he had knowledge as to when Audrey was killed.

 

[Sillybilly]

Maybe he was trying to say if she was out at night, smoking and looking at the stars she would have had her dogs with her.

Yes, I agree that is how to interpret the second statement. My confusion lies in comparing that to the first statement:

The dogs were confined away from the area where AG was found. Although it wasn't especially unlikely for AG to confine them away from this area during the day, I cant imagine her in this area in the middle of the night. Hopefully that isn't uselessly cryptic?

Everything we've read indicates the area where AG was found was the garage. If we simply substitute “the garage” for the words related to “area”, this sentence would then become:

The dogs were confined away from the garage where AG was found. Although it wasn't especially unlikely for AG to confine them away from the garage during the day, I cant imagine her in the garage in the middle of the night.

Just isn't making sense to me.

 

[Arnie M]

.

Did the police ever reveal when Audrey died ?
I doubt it was the same day she was found.
And I have always been curious why so many people think it happened at night .... or was that just based on the neighbors dog barking at 2 am ?

I would focus on the whereabouts of the suspect(s) during the days (or nights) prior to her being discovered

 

[Deleted member 102539]

By night leaving her home through connecting door, smoking in the garage with garage doors down - dogs maybe confined in their kennel.
By night leaving home through connecting door, smoking in the garage with garage doors up, looking at stars - dogs have to be with her as her guard.
By night leaving home through connecting door, not smoking (utensil not found), garage doors down, dogs confined in kennel - without certain reason very odd.

Did AG hear noises?
Did she hear voices?
Did she hear door clapping/ motor running of her Camaro??

(Was the opening/closing of the double garage door noisily or mostly without noise?)
If I remember well, there was another door except the big double garage doors. Maybe someone entered through that door?
Did 2 persons have a secret "perverse" date in her Camaro (with the thrill of suddenly discovery)?

:dunno: :dunno:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Why did the murderer know, AG had no Christmas visitors??
Many people have visitors at this time of the year (and if it's just an Ex, visiting only once a year when he is visiting his parents - for example).

Why were there no or little excreta of the 2 big dogs, if they were confined from 27. to 30.12.? Almost impossible.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Audrey told David Gleave, she had had an argument with a female student got out of hand at Barton. The girl threatened Audrey that she was going to kill her and was suspended for the outburst.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/
Paywall!

From time to time I'm thinking about the incident re the mental constitution of this person and her further careers/life. There are people who would make others responsible for their own "not so happy" life, when they reach a certain age and have had enough bad experiences, maybe hospitalizations, addictions, dysfunctional relationships and similar also.

 

[whiterhino]

.

Did the police ever reveal when Audrey died ?
I doubt it was the same day she was found.
And I have always been curious why so many people think it happened at night .... or was that just based on the neighbors dog barking at 2 am ?

I would focus on the whereabouts of the suspect(s) during the days (or nights) prior to her being discovered

L.E didn't reveal an est. time of death but from what I recall, AG was reportedly last seen alive Monday December 27th. Can't recall by whom atm? L.V?

Was that when Lynn brought the soup? Could the dogs have been locked up at that time & remained in their confines until found later? Why would AG go outside to look at stars when she had a cold? She seemed to be keeping a close eye on her symptoms & I feel like she would be too smart to risk going outside.

@FG: I believe the garage had a separate entrance. That is to say, an exterior door, the actual garage door itself & then a door leading into the house? Is this correct? Also, I think there might have been a keypad or lock on the exterior door?

 

[deugirtni]

Why did the murderer know, AG had no Christmas visitors??
Many people have visitors at this time of the year (and if it's just an Ex, visiting only once a year when he is visiting his parents - for example).

Why were there no or little excreta of the 2 big dogs, if they were confined from 27. to 30.12.? Almost impossible.

Good point about the dog poop. I don't recall it being written anywhere as to whether there was any, or how much, but that might help to provide for police a good indication of how long the dogs had been left in their kennels.

Where is it said that the murderer knew that AG had no Christmas visitors, or are you just going on the fact that the killer didn't seem to have regard for whether or not she might have visitors? It would probably be easy enough to determine if the killer showed up and saw no other vehicles in the drive? Or else the killer could have known AG, as police suspect that he did, and therefore could have been informed by her about all of her holiday plans, if any.

 

[deugirtni]

Was it written anywhere whether there was any sign of forced entry into the garage? Or is it looking like the killer got in either through the house, or with the keypad code?

 

[deugirtni]

Audrey told David Gleave, she had had an argument with a female student got out of hand at Barton. The girl threatened Audrey that she was going to kill her and was suspended for the outburst.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/
Paywall!

From time to time I'm thinking about the incident re the mental constitution of this person and her further careers/life. There are people who would make others responsible for their own "not so happy" life, when they reach a certain age and have had enough bad experiences, maybe hospitalizations, addictions, dysfunctional relationships and similar also.

In case anyone hasn't yet tried it, if you are having difficulty accessing a news article because you have already read your limit for the month, try right clicking on the link to take you to the article, but choose 'privacy mode'. That will often bring it up when just clicking on it will not.

That incident with the female student threatening AG would have been many many years before her death. I wonder if LE ever checked out that person? To have done a thorough investigation, I'm sure they would have, but who knows? In any case, it was so many years prior that I *doubt* it would be related, but who knows until we know, right?

 

[deugirtni]

.

Did the police ever reveal when Audrey died ?
I doubt it was the same day she was found.
And I have always been curious why so many people think it happened at night .... or was that just based on the neighbors dog barking at 2 am ?

I would focus on the whereabouts of the suspect(s) during the days (or nights) prior to her being discovered

Considering that AG's body was found relatively quickly (around 11am on the Thursday (December 30th)), it should have been easily within the ME's reach to establish an accurate time/day of death. It was reported in a newspaper article written in 2015 that police believe she died during the afternoon or early evening on the Monday (December 27th).

This would suggest that she did NOT die during the night, and also that police do NOT believe that it was AG who sent the email to her neighbor, which the neighbor said she had received from AG on the 'night' of Monday, December 27th (same date on which AG had sent the same email to PK, but was sent to PK in the morning).

I wonder if the neighbor's dog barking in the middle of the night is why people seem to assume that she was attacked at night, but that was during the night on the Tuesday night (2am Wednesday December 29th), and police seem to believe she had already been deceased for almost 1.5 days before that.

BBM

From a news article written a couple of days after AG's body was found, on January 1st, 2011:

The last e-mail Linda received from Gleave was Monday night. It was a link to a version of Amazing Grace.

Monday night is the last time police believe anyone had contact with Gleave.

No neighbours reported seeing or hearing anything suspicious over the past few days. But the Fergusons’ dogs suddenly began barking wildly around 2:30 a.m. Wednesday.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2182849-police-investigating-ancaster-area-homicide/

From a news article dated January 4, 2011:

Vanstone said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.


"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.


"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."


Vanstone said she was told by police investigators that Gleave had sent an e-mail to a friend on the night of Dec. 27.

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

From a news article written in August 2015:

On Monday morning, Dec. 27, 2010 she emailed her friend Phil Kinsman, a 22-year old graduate engineering student at McMaster who did gardening and handyman jobs for her.

She wrote that she had not been feeling well lately, but would attend her Wednesday coffee at Williams "come hell or high water." She signed her email "Baryon," a nickname she had coined, after the subatomic particle.

Police believe she was killed that same afternoon or early evening.

On Thursday, Dec. 30, at about 11 a.m., Kinsman called 911 from his car in Gleave's laneway.

He told police he discovered the body in the garage, after trying to bring Gleave a cake baked by his wife, Alex, a pastry chef. Gleave had attended the couple's wedding the previous June in Ancaster.

Kinsman said that in keeping with the routine he had with Gleave, he punched in the code on her garage door and it opened to reveal her lying on her back next to the Camaro.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

 

[anonymess]

I would be curious to know if the internet is any good in the area ag lived in. Sometimes in rural pockets its not so great or affordable. Is there anything that would have accounted for the neighbour receiving the email at a delayed time?

 

[deugirtni]

I would be curious to know if the internet is any good in the area ag lived in. Sometimes in rural pockets its not so great or affordable. Is there anything that would have accounted for the neighbour receiving the email at a delayed time?

That occurred to me as well, not about the iffy internet, which is a possibility too, but I wondered if AG had set the email to send at a time different from what the time actually was. Something like that could even have been done by accident, after just poking around in the options. I'm not sure if it ever stated what time PK's email had been sent to him, but I was wondering if AG may have set one to am and one to pm, like say 10am and 10pm....

Also, I read that AG could tend to be up in the night, on her computer. Being such a reportedly private person, if she ran across something she wanted to share with her friends while she was up surfing around in the middle of the night, I'm wondering if she set the email(s) to send at a different time, so that nobody would really know exactly what time she was actually up playing around. She may have done so in the past and received comments back like 'what were you doing UP so late Audrey??!!'? That would be a way for her to avoid people knowing that she liked to play online in the night and being harassed about it by those that may not have the same affliction/addiction(?).

.... Audrey — computer junkie that she was, up at all hours of the night ...

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2111178-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

Audrey Gleave emailed these Crabby Road comics to a friend at 4 o'clock one morning.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/