Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #1

[Twinkle]

The more information we get, the more confused I am. I agree the jackets rule out an accident. Nothing makes sense.


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[1&2&3]

Without more information, I want to start small. Barry and Honey Sherman had three children.

One was getting married, one had a two week old child and what was the third doing again?

The Sherman's had four children I have read. Do they all live close to Toronto?

This does not sound like a murder-suicide to me. It sounds more like a double murder where two perps were involved. A hit as it was done in such a clean manner. Billionaires would have no idea how to pull a double murder off and leave no signs.

My opinion only.

 

[Elley Mae]

And new information offers an even more disturbing look into what a real estate agent and police found in the pool area of their home.

Sources say investigators found the Shermans, side by side, in their windowless pool room, each with a men’s leather belt wrapped around their necks and tied to the pool railing. Both had on jackets that were pulled “behind their backs” and rolled down over their arms.

It is believed the camera in the pool area had been disconnected.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-mystery-shrouds-deaths-of-billionaire-couple

The jacket used to bind their arms/hands. 2 men’s leather belts. I wonder if they (shermans) were entering the home and were overtaken entering the garage.

 

[matou]

If these are BS's own belts and his own jackets, then he did this to himself and his wife IMO.

 

[Grey-St]

Thinking back to the Alvin Liknes murder in Calgary a couple of years ago. That happened because a low life loser was angry about money and believe that Alvin Liknes owed him money. Alvin and wife were about to leave town when they were murdered.

In this case, we have Barry's cousins who are by all accounts low lifes who recently lost a lawsuit for yet more handouts from Barry. I sure hope that isn't what happened to them. The cousins perhaps should have been cut into the original deal, but even if they were they lived as though handouts from Barry were a given. That is, it doesn't sound like any of them had the ambition or ability to do anything with opportunity or money even when they had it. They blew it and wanted more.

What a shame if this is nothing more than a greedy cousin who knew the couple was leaving town and who knew that they were moving, and who thought this was his last chance to "get even".

Wow, I must say, this does sound eerily similar to the Liknes case. I do feel that folks who are unwell, and feel deeply wronged, do become capable of such heinous acts. I'm keeping an opened mind, but I truly would not be surprised if this was the case.

 

[gdalton]

Whoa, this article is an eyeopener about Barry's personality:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-sued-builders-of-north-york-home.html

They bought the property in 1985...moved in 1991...and spent twenty years suing everyone involved in the construction.

 

[meanmaryjean]

Dang this just gets weirder and weirder.

 

[Grey-St]

I believe it is, and your post now makes me wonder whether the possible killer(s) were in the garage, and knew that the Shermans would be going out at some point.

Or the Sherman's had just come in from being out.

 

[andreww]

Going to keep an open mind on this although I still feel it is likely a murder suicide. A veteran homicide officer was quoted as saying "hangings are generally suicides" which makes sense. No sign of forced entry, no sign of a struggle, I just don't see any evidence pointing to a homicide.

 

[Grey-St]

Maybe someone took advantage of the bad blood between Sherman and his cousins, and went in for the kill, thinking the cousins would be the top suspects. Who stood to benefit the most? This was a hit. The usual suspects have strong alibis. Who would know the Shermans were about to go to Florida? Who would know about the surveillance camera in the basement and possibly disable it. If there were no signs of forced entry, the Shermans knew them and let them in. Would the Shermans let any of the cousins inside of the house? I don't think so. Any competitors? Nope. It's someone they were very familiar with.

I was also thinking of this, that they may be reluctant to let the cousins in, or a competitor, but we really don't know for sure. They may have, just out of manners and hospitality, or habit. Also, there's the possibility that they opened the door, and whoever was there pushed their way inside.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

I wouldn't think a murderer would want to go digging through closets to see what he could use. Wouldn't NA (ninja assassin) have brought... oh, I dunno... maybe *rope* with him?

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[Grey-St]

Going to keep an open mind on this although I still feel it is likely a murder suicide. A veteran homicide officer was quoted as saying "hangings are generally suicides" which makes sense. No sign of forced entry, no sign of a struggle, I just don't see any evidence pointing to a homicide.

We just don't know enough at this point, IMO. The only fact we have been given is the COD. We have no idea if there are signs of a struggle, what the rest of the crime scene looked like, if there are any defensive wounds or evidence... But I absolutely agree that keeping an opened mind is the best bet at this point in time.

 

[andreww]

Whoa, this article is an eyeopener about Barry's personality:
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-sued-builders-of-north-york-home.html

They bought the property in 1985...moved in 1991...and spent twenty years suing everyone involved in the construction.

Seems like a very litigious kind of person, almost greedy. From all I've read about the guy, he doesn't seem like a very nice person. Even his business, stealing recipes for other companies drugs and selling them cheaper. Really just seems like a bit of a dick in my opinion.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Going to keep an open mind on this although I still feel it is likely a murder suicide. A veteran homicide officer was quoted as saying "hangings are generally suicides" which makes sense. No sign of forced entry, no sign of a struggle, I just don't see any evidence pointing to a homicide.

Compared to suicidal hanging homicide has a frequency of about 1% in our autopsy material.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6525016/

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[andreww]

We just don't know enough at this point, IMO. The only fact we have been given is the COD. We have no idea if there are signs of a struggle, what the rest of the crime scene looked like, if there are any defensive wounds or evidence... But I absolutely agree that keeping an opened mind is the best bet at this point in time.

True, but LE's original suggestion about murder/suicide would indicate that their likely was no struggle or defence wounds, or they wouldn't have suggested that. My guess is that we will likely be hearing very little about this from here on in as a family with money has spoken, and they don't like what cops are saying.

 

[Grey-St]

Seems like a very litigious kind of person, almost greedy. From all I've read about the guy, he doesn't seem like a very nice person. Even his business, stealing recipes for other companies drugs and selling them cheaper. Really just seems like a bit of a dick in my opinion.

I don't want to speak badly about the victim, but I'm getting the same impression. Quite the philanthropic guy, but I take that will a grain of salt. He really doesn't sound like a peach, IMO.

 

[andreww]

Compared to suicidal hanging homicide has a frequency of about 1% in our autopsy material.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/6525016/

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And what is the percentage for double homicide hangings? I would guess that this would be a first.

 

[andreww]

I don't want to speak badly about the victim, but I'm getting the same impression. Quite the philanthropic guy, but I take that will a grain of salt. He really doesn't sound like a peach, IMO.

Given the business he was in, philanthropy was likely just a cost of doing business. Given that he said something to the effect of "he'd rather die than go to another benefit", it tells me that he really didn't enjoy that aspect of his life.

 

[Montrealaise]

It would surprise me if people with that much money didn't have a state of the art security system. If it was murder, and I think it is more likely than murder-suicide, then perhaps the killers knew how to gain entry silently, and turn off the alarm system.

Warren Buffet even has full-time security guards around his home and office, I have read. I am even surprised that they did not have drivers who were also body-guards at the least, but apparently Barry liked to drive himself to work in an old car, and Honey finally bought him a new one. I wonder if she just drove herself around too ? If someone managed to get in his/ her car, and forced them, probably at gun point, to take them into the house by way of the large 6 car garage, next to the pool, that could explain not seeing anyone going into the house, if they hid in a back seat when approaching and entering the garage ( if there are outside security cameras ). It would also explain the lack of forced entry. Honey was out and about more than Barry it seems, and she would be an easier target. Maybe that is why she was killed first somewhere else in the house. She may have tried to warn Barry, and they silenced her. Then possibly they forced Barry to the pool area, killed him there, and brought Honey's body there as well, and staged it to look like a murder suicide. Just a theory. If it was murder, it was well planned ahead of time.

The house looks staged, and I doubt that they would have expensive jewelry etc. on the property when it was being shown by real estate agents. Was there a safe, and would thieves have perhaps been trying to force Barry to open it by partially strangling Honey, then things went terribly wrong -- they killed her by accident, and then had to kill Barry too, staging it to make it look like murder-suicide without ever making him open the safe ? Wild conjecture I know, but just trying to think of some possible logical explanations.

Did all the other robberies in the area happen only when the houses were not occupied ? Did security cameras gather any information, or were they disabled ? It seems that LE is having a hard time catching these thieves. IMO

I was surprised to read about the very high number of break-ins in the area. This is a very expensive neighbourhood - you'd think that every homeowner would have a state-of-the-art security system. Perhaps we're dealing with unusually sophisticated burglars?

 

[Inthedetails]

And what is the percentage for double homicide hangings? I would guess that this would be a first.

Thinking aloud here....

It's my guess that hangings are likely unusual in murders because you have to physically lift the body - not an easy task when the body would be fighting for life. In this particular case, it would be two bodies to lift.

But...this hanging was done on a rather low railing. I'm stuck on thinking in the bodies were dangling over the edge of the pool and into the water or open pool if the water was drained (thought that is a hunch, not a fact). If this situation, the perps didn't have to lift the bodies up high to a hanging position.

I remain on the fence with this case. A first I was sure it was murder-suicide, but now I'm open-minded about double murder.

jmo