Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

[Tighthead]

Knowing it was the wishes of the family/administrators to seal the estate business from the very onset and applied to the court accordingly, I’ve never figured out why Donovan or anyone else would’ve expected the attorney holding their Wills would’ve presented them in an open court.

JMO the missing/lost/amended/secret Will business is a side show and both estates were in order from the very beginning.

Didn’t a lawyer advise the court that Honey’s Will was missing?

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

That would likely be disbarment. Pretty strange tactic for an established big law lawyer. Why do you think he would lie to the court and risk his career? How does he benefit from the side show?

 

[MistyWaters]

I definitely got the vibe that none of the family members are suspects anymore.

So did I. I didn’t hear the very first question Idsinga was asked but Iirc he responded to it pertaining to media speculation and it being hurtful to the family.

 

[MistyWaters]

Didn’t a lawyer advise the court that Honey’s Will was missing?

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

That would likely be disbarment. Pretty strange tactic for an established big law lawyer. Why do you think he would lie to the court and risk his career? How does he benefit from the side show?

Why would that particular lawyer be aware if Wills were drawn up by a different estate attorney, who then came forward after the Judge sealed the estate business? He couldn’t predict the future.

If makes no sense for administrators to request sealing if the Will has already been presented in open court.

 

[deugirtni]

Sherman murders: Private investigation concludes, Toronto police ask for help with new tip line
“The family and the police urge anyone who has reliable information regarding the murders, no matter how small or unimportant that information may seem, to contact the police,” Idsinga said.
....

RSBM
That seems a bit inaccurate? I remember him saying to call in with any tips, no matter how small or irrelevant they may seem, etc., because one doesn't necessarily know what is relevant or not in a case. imo.

 

[Tighthead]

Why would that particular lawyer be aware if Wills were drawn up by a different estate attorney, who then came forward after the Judge sealed the estate business? He couldn’t predict the future.

If makes no sense for administrators to request sealing if the Will has already been presented in open court.

There are two estates in the same file.

It absolutely does make sense.

It is your theory that this was a side show. Why would the lawyer retained by the executors lie as part of our side show theory?

Predicting the future is irrelevant. You said it was a sideshow at the time it happened.

Who would instruct the “estate attorney” to appear in court? Who is the client if not the executors?

 

[deugirtni]

It seems like family would not be involved as m/s would end any investigation

This is complicated (for me) to type.. but here goes:
What if:
Honey died first, or was deemed to have died first
She left her estate to other than the children (she was not a softie like her husband was, apparently), and maybe to Barry..
Her husband is deemed to have murdered her, therefore he cannot collect on her estate, it passes to the others in the will..
Some people in her will may be different from the beneficiaries of his will..
Therefore, maybe it was in the best interests of whomever, to have this situation be a double suicide or a double homicide, rather than a murder/suicide?

 

[deugirtni]

Didn’t a lawyer advise the court that Honey’s Will was missing?

Where is Honey Sherman’s will? | The Star

That would likely be disbarment. Pretty strange tactic for an established big law lawyer. Why do you think he would lie to the court and risk his career? How does he benefit from the side show?

From memory, I think that lawyer was hedging and not committing to ANY information whatsoever.. I recall him being quoted as saying something like, 'we don't know if Honey had a will, we don't know if Honey had NO will', etc.? He also made the thing where both estates were treated as died with no will, even though clearly Barry had a will.. it was all to prevent Donovan from knowing anything for sure. imo.

 

[Tighthead]

From memory, I think that lawyer was hedging and not committing to ANY information whatsoever.. I recall him being quoted as saying something like, 'we don't know if Honey had a will, we don't know if Honey had NO will', etc.? He also made the thing where both estates were treated as died with no will, even though clearly Barry had a will.. it was all to prevent Donovan from knowing anything for sure. imo.

What thing did he make?

He clearly advised the court that they could not locate her will, and they were unable to determine if it was missing or never existed.

 

[deugirtni]

I am shocked at really how few tips there were? I would've expected there to have been many more than that. From dotr's link above:

Insp. Hank Idsinga with the homicide squad told reporters Monday that Toronto police have received 205 tips and that the private investigator team hired by the Sherman’s received 343 tips.

 

[deugirtni]

What thing did he make?

He clearly advised the court that they could not locate her will, and they were unable to determine if it was missing or never existed.

Imo, I don't think he said anything clearly at all. Sorry my legaleze is crap. I will have to find what I am referring to.

Here it is:

Davies lawyer Timothy Youdan, in a July 2018 court hearing in which the Star was seeking access to the estate documents, told Justice Sean Dunphy:

"We don't know who the beneficiaries are, if there is a will," Sherman estate lawyer Timothy Youdan told the court hearing. "We don't know if there is no will." To proceed with the administration of the couple's estate after the deaths, Youdan filed a document asking for the "appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman." He also filed an affidavit from a person described as "AB" stating that should the identity of the trustees and beneficiaries get out, they could be in danger of "violence and kidnapping." Even though Barry apparently did have a will, Youdan filed a document in court requesting the "appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Barry Sherman." Why this was done is part of the sealing order the Star is challenging.

I believe this is the link:
Honey Sherman had a will she updated shortly before billionaire couple slain, confidant reveals | The Star

 

[Tighthead]

Imo, I don't think he said anything clearly at all. Sorry my legaleze is crap. I will have to find what I am referring to.

He advised the court that there was no will located for Honey. It was to successfully obtain an appointment for administration with no will. Obviously it had to be established that no will was located to obtain the order.

Is it also your position that he was lying as part of a side show?

 

[Kittybunny]

Well, thank you @MistyWaters for giving me heads up that that was likely to be a great big nothingburger. For a minute I got excited that they were asking for tips to be submitted to TPS and not the families' PI and that meant maybe they were zeroing in on a family member and perhaps thought they were being deceived, etc... BUT after reading the comments here and rest of the info it doesn't seem like it. Blah.

 

[nuff]

In response to one of the press questions (which were hard to hear), Idsinga seemed very clear in saying that, while the murders were targeted, this was not a "hit". Make of that what you will.

What if the private team has been disbanded so that Greenspan can resume his more usual role as a defence lawyer? (Just wild speculation.)

 

[deugirtni]

He advised the court that there was no will located for Honey. It was to successfully obtain an appointment for administration with no will. Obviously it had to be established that no will was located to obtain the order.

Is it also your position that he was lying as part of a side show?

That can't be true, since he also seems to have obtained the same "appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Barry Sherman" and clearly BS had a will.

 

[Tighthead]

That can't be true, since he also seems to have obtained the same "appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Barry Sherman" and clearly BS had a will.

But he disclosed the existence of the will to the court, so there is a clear distinction. The reasons for the order as issued are sealed.

What specifically can’t be true? That he established the lack of a will? We know what he advised the court, and that the order was granted. No opposing evidence would have been offered.

Is it your position that he lied to the court?

 

[Tighthead]

In response to one of the press questions (which were hard to hear), Idsinga seemed very clear in saying that, while the murders were targeted, this was not a "hit". Make of that what you will.

What if the private team has been disbanded so that Greenspan can resume his more usual role as a defence lawyer? (Just wild speculation.)

Greenspan has acted for all of the children. He is conflicted out.

 

[Jealoushe]

Sherman family, police set to release statement 2 years after billionaire couple found slain

Heard a rumour of $10 Million reward on FB, is that true?

 

[Sphinx]

If being given a tour of the home, I doubt one would get out of the app and go somewhere else. The whole point was apparently to see the house in realtime via facetime.

If a family member is a suspect, that may be why Greenspan would close down the PI team sharing information with the TPS. He would likely represent that person in a criminal case. IMO

Sorry, I meant to reply to the post about why Greenspan would close down the PI team.

 

[deugirtni]

He advised the court that there was no will located for Honey. It was to successfully obtain an appointment for administration with no will. Obviously it had to be established that no will was located to obtain the order.

Is it also your position that he was lying as part of a side show?

That can't be true, since he also seems to have obtained the same "appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Barry Sherman" and clearly BS had a will.

But he disclosed the existence of the will to the court, so there is a clear distinction. The reasons for the order as issued are sealed.

What specifically can’t be true? That he established the lack of a will? We know what he advised the court, and that the order was granted. No opposing evidence would have been offered.

Is it your position that he lied to the court?

You stated above: Obviously it had to be established that no will was located to obtain the order. But yet he made the same request for same order for BS, even though we know BS had a will. Therefore, your statement cannot be true.

I stated earlier that imo, he was very noncommittal in what he stated as far as H having or not having a will. As I posted above, he is quoted as saying:

"We don't know who the beneficiaries are, if there is a will," Sherman estate lawyer Timothy Youdan told the court hearing. "We don't know if there is no will." To proceed with the administration of the couple's estate after the deaths, Youdan filed a document asking for the "appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Honey Sherman." He also filed an affidavit from a person described as "AB" stating that should the identity of the trustees and beneficiaries get out, they could be in danger of "violence and kidnapping." Even though Barry apparently did have a will, Youdan filed a document in court requesting the "appointment of estate trustee without a will in the estate of Barry Sherman." Why this was done is part of the sealing order the Star is challenging.

 

[deugirtni]

If a family member is a suspect, that may be why Greenspan would close down the PI team sharing information with the TPS. He would likely represent that person in a criminal case. IMO

Sorry, I meant to reply to the post about why Greenspan would close down the PI team.

Who said Greenspan closed down the PI team?