Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #15

[CAMBRIAN]

I stand by my theory: Barry and Honey had an argument which turned physical....Barry injured Honey's fragile neck [prior surgeries]. The altercation occurred in another part of the house. When Barry realized that Honey was dead, he had someone close to him complete the scenario. Barry could not face the shame. He could not commit an ordinary suicide....that would forever paint him as a murderer. That someone followed Barry's instructions that led to the two bodies sitting by the swimming pool. That scenario explains everything: no shame, perfect double homicide, plenty of time to contact and convince someone to help him complete the scenario, no shadow on the family, wipes out possible guilt of family members. Barry was a controller. He could do that. He had the intelligence to plan all this out.

.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Something has always puzzled me:

Dr. Michael Pickup, the lead pathologist does the autopsy on Barry and Honey December 16th, the day after their bodies were discovered. Pickup’s boss was also present: Dr. Michael Pollamen, including the lead homicide detectives. Whatever their findings were, the police continue to only seek warrants with Chief Justice Pringle solely in relation to Honey’s murder/death. A few days later, Greenspan’s team seek and get permission to do their own 2nd autopsy on the 20th, before the funeral. Dr. David Chiasson was joined by Pickup, Klatt and other members of Greenspan’s team. After they both determine that it’s not M/S, but a double murder....the TPS wait a MONTH and it’s not til after KD’s article appears in The Star, after January 19 that the TPS decide to interview Chiasson. Then, Gomes press conference.

Note: that in ALL warrant and production order applications filed by the police with the court, between Dec 20-Jan 15, a total of 14....Honey is a victim of a crime, not Barry. It appears the police were pretty sure Barry killed himself and the hyoid bone in his neck wasn’t broken....an almost sure sign it wasn’t strangulation.

Why would Price and Gomes wait a month....busy doing other things or didn’t take an interest in Greenspan and Chiasson’s findings for some inexplicable reason. Could it be the TPS had made up their minds and it was a slam dunk M/S?!?!

They certainly weren’t anxious to chat with me.

Your post is interesting, as usual.

(TL, DR: KD addressed most of this in the book, I’m just going by what he has written).

When did they ask you to go in to make a statement? The people closest to the Shermans had to be looked at first. (Immediate family and coworkers etc.) Maybe they had a suspect or suspects to clear before you.(?)

Honey’s hyoid bone also was not broken. Whoever strangled her cut off her airway with a soft ligature (possibly the belt.) The same with Barry. (Source: KD).

The hyoid bones being intact in a double-homicide apparently seemed unusual to the first provincial pathologists, but not to Chiasson (Per KD’s book.)

Barry was found in a semi-seated position, with his legs stretched out. The belt around his neck kept him in position, but there wasn’t enough downward force for it to have strangled him. (According to KD again.)

The private second pathologist had an advantage as his samples were sent for toxicology testing to a US lab. They had the results back within 48 hours—not backlogged for weeks or months like the Ontario CFS. I’m just guessing that may have played a part.

However, the skin around B & H’s wrists were sent to pathology in the provincial lab. Maybe that caused a delay. And maybe the results of those tests indicated that the marks they both had on their wrists were made soon prior to death...but no restraints matching the marks were found. (KD said one possibility was a zip-tie type of restraint.) So, where are the restraints? Who took them off, and why? KD guessed the police searched the sewers for them.

KD wrote, or was quoted as saying, that Barry took a sleeping aid, but he didn’t specify if Barry had taken any that night. He said there was therapeutic medications in their systems that they would expect. Why wouldn’t he overdose, if the truth turns out that KD is wrong about the belts being staged?

I don’t know why the warrants named only HS as a homicide victim, and not BS, until later. Or why they served a warrant for a loyalty points card, possibly air miles.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I stand by my theory: Barry and Honey had an argument which turned physical....Barry injured Honey's fragile neck [prior surgeries]. The altercation occurred in another part of the house. When Barry realized that Honey was dead, he had someone close to him complete the scenario. Barry could not face the shame. He could not commit an ordinary suicide....that would forever paint him as a murderer. That someone followed Barry's instructions that led to the two bodies sitting by the swimming pool. That scenario explains everything: no shame, perfect double homicide, plenty of time to contact and convince someone to help him complete the scenario, no shadow on the family, wipes out possible guilt of family members. Barry was a controller. He could do that. He had the intelligence to plan all this out.

.

I’m not sure we can say it would be easier to strangle HS because of prior surgery or radiation. I understand your point: it was a vulnerable area for her, but we don’t know much about her specific treatment. No matter what, her airway would have to be cut off for about 4+ minutes with a ligature. Criminologist Michael Arntfield said that takes a great deal of strength.

And I’m not saying this sarcastically: if someone was called in by BS to help kill him and stage the scene, what if witnesses happened to show up? Kill them too?

And there is a possible shadow on the family at the moment, imho. BS would know the police would find the heated emails between himself and JS, that might make JS look guilty. That’s a snag.

And this was asked before —but why would this ‘assistant’ do this on very short notice? They were both killed prior to midnight, according to the police. It goes from ‘hey, it’s Barry, do you have a minute...?’ ..to murder.

And BS calls this person on an untraceable landline (?) travels undetected, agrees and carries out this murder...just like that? From zero to murderer and crime scene stager with apparently no mistakes? (Again, no sarcasm, it makes no sense to me.)

 

[JDG]

Something has always puzzled me:

Dr. Michael Pickup, the lead pathologist does the autopsy on Barry and Honey December 16th, the day after their bodies were discovered. Pickup’s boss was also present: Dr. Michael Pollamen, including the lead homicide detectives. Whatever their findings were, the police continue to only seek warrants with Chief Justice Pringle solely in relation to Honey’s murder/death. A few days later, Greenspan’s team seek and get permission to do their own 2nd autopsy on the 20th, before the funeral. Dr. David Chiasson was joined by Pickup, Klatt and other members of Greenspan’s team. After they both determine that it’s not M/S, but a double murder....the TPS wait a MONTH and it’s not til after KD’s article appears in The Star, after January 19 that the TPS decide to interview Chiasson. Then, Gomes press conference.

Note: that in ALL warrant and production order applications filed by the police with the court, between Dec 20-Jan 15, a total of 14....Honey is a victim of a crime, not Barry. It appears the police were pretty sure Barry killed himself and the hyoid bone in his neck wasn’t broken....an almost sure sign it wasn’t strangulation.

Why would Price and Gomes wait a month....busy doing other things or didn’t take an interest in Greenspan and Chiasson’s findings for some inexplicable reason. Could it be the TPS had made up their minds and it was a slam dunk M/S?!?!

They certainly weren’t anxious to chat with me.

Kerry, there are a few ways to strangle someone without breaking the hyoid bone.

Choke holds, properly done and maintained rather briefly are an example.

One doesnt need a lot of strength to carry out carotid sleepers or lateral vascular neck restraints on another either.

If you think back to when L'Wren Scott hanged herself, it was with a soft fabric scarf and although I dont know for certain, I'd bet she didnt break her hyoid either.

ETA: L'Wren Scott was the long time girlfriend of Mick Jagger and committed suicide by hanging in 2014. IIRC she used a velvet scarf.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Your post is interesting, as usual.

(TL, DR: KD addressed most of this in the book, I’m just going by what he has written).

When did they ask you to go in to make a statement? The people closest to the Shermans had to be looked at first. (Immediate family and coworkers etc.) Maybe they had a suspect or suspects to clear before you.(?)

Honey’s hyoid bone also was not broken. Whoever strangled her cut off her airway with a soft ligature (possibly the belt.) The same with Barry. (Source: KD).

The hyoid bones being intact in a double-homicide apparently seemed unusual to the first provincial pathologists, but not to Chiasson (Per KD’s book.)

Barry was found in a semi-seated position, with his legs stretched out. The belt around his neck kept him in position, but there wasn’t enough downward force for it to have strangled him. (According to KD again.)

The private second pathologist had an advantage as his samples were sent for toxicology testing to a US lab. They had the results back within 48 hours—not backlogged for weeks or months like the Ontario CFS. I’m just guessing that may have played a part.

However, the skin around B & H’s wrists were sent to pathology in the provincial lab. Maybe that caused a delay. And maybe the results of those tests indicated that the marks they both had on their wrists were made soon prior to death...but no restraints matching the marks were found. (KD said one possibility was a zip-tie type of restraint.) So, where are the restraints? Who took them off, and why? KD guessed the police searched the sewers for them.

KD wrote, or was quoted as saying, that Barry took a sleeping aid, but he didn’t specify if Barry had taken any that night. He said there was therapeutic medications in their systems that they would expect. Why wouldn’t he overdose, if the truth turns out that KD is wrong about the belts being staged?

I don’t know why the warrants named only HS as a homicide victim, and not BS, until later. Or why they served a warrant for a loyalty points card, possibly air miles.

Just an addition: It was Dr. Pollanen and Dr. Chiasson who wrote a study which found only 1/3 of hyoid bones were broken in murders by strangulation.

From KD’s book:


This may be the study:Fracture of the hyoid bone in strangulation: comparison of fractured and unfractured hyoids from victims of strangulation - PubMed

@CAMBRIAN , the age of the victim and other factors determine if the hyoid bone is broken, according to the study above. Despite HS’s throat cancer and treatment, hers remained in tact. (Just noting.)

 

[WINDSOR]

I stand by my theory: Barry and Honey had an argument which turned physical....Barry injured Honey's fragile neck [prior surgeries]. The altercation occurred in another part of the house. When Barry realized that Honey was dead, he had someone close to him complete the scenario. Barry could not face the shame. He could not commit an ordinary suicide....that would forever paint him as a murderer. That someone followed Barry's instructions that led to the two bodies sitting by the swimming pool. That scenario explains everything: no shame, perfect double homicide, plenty of time to contact and convince someone to help him complete the scenario, no shadow on the family, wipes out possible guilt of family members. Barry was a controller. He could do that. He had the intelligence to plan all this out.

.

You state 'Barry could not face the shame' The public information about Barry does not portray him as a person who could be shamed or embarrassed. He drove an old car, he sued everybody he could, he did not shy away from controversy or publicity. In current the venacular I don't think he gave a f--k about what other people thought. No shame, no M/S in my opinion.

 

[CAMBRIAN]

Shame may not be the correct word. I agree that he did not care what other people thought .... but I doubt very much that he would want to be labelled a murderer. Huge difference between not caring about driving an old car and landing up as an accused killer.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Shame may not be the correct word. I agree that he did not care what other people thought .... but I doubt very much that he would want to be labelled a murderer. Huge difference between not caring about driving an old car and landing up as an accused killer.

Only he’s not an accused murderer. He’s a homicide victim. It’s libel to accuse him of being a murderer.

 

[Satchie]

Provide a link from the TPS that ‘labelled the matter as a M/S’, please.

Oh man, Happy Groundhog Day, this is like that same old bad Sonny & Cher song starting up again, why was it ever a hit in the first place?

We don't pay police officers to walk into a situation and say "Mon ami, this is a M/S and I will bet you any money and will not back down from my superficial leap to judgement until a rich family applies political and financial pressure and forces my boss to spout their line".

It is the Medical Examiner who declares manner of death: accident, disease, murder, suicide. Many of us initially thought it might be carbon monoxide poisoning. It could have been quirky sex play gone wrong. All these things are possibilities until the evidence is collected, and used to eliminate every other possibility, and confirm just one. If it was not possible to come to a scientific conclusion, the ME would have reported it as 'undetermined', as frequently happens when bodies are too decomposed to make a determination.

 

[ldlager]

Oh man, Happy Groundhog Day, this is like that same old bad Sonny & Cher song starting up again, why was it ever a hit in the first place?

We don't pay police officers to walk into a situation and say "Mon ami, this is a M/S and I will bet you any money and will not back down from my superficial leap to judgement until a rich family applies political and financial pressure and forces my boss to spout their line".

It is the Medical Examiner who declares manner of death: accident, disease, murder, suicide. Many of us initially thought it might be carbon monoxide poisoning. It could have been quirky sex play gone wrong. All these things are possibilities until the evidence is collected, and used to eliminate every other possibility, and confirm just one. If it was not possible to come to a scientific conclusion, the ME would have reported it as 'undetermined', as frequently happens when bodies are too decomposed to make a determination.

"...THE WHEELSON THE BUS GO ROUND AND ROUND...."

 

[ldlager]

I’m not sure we can say it would be easier to strangle HS because of prior surgery or radiation. I understand your point: it was a vulnerable area for her, but we don’t know much about her specific treatment. No matter what, her airway would have to be cut off for about 4+ minutes with a ligature. Criminologist Michael Arntfield said that takes a great deal of strength.

And I’m not saying this sarcastically: if someone was called in by BS to help kill him and stage the scene, what if witnesses happened to show up? Kill them too?

And there is a possible shadow on the family at the moment, imho. BS would know the police would find the heated emails between himself and JS, that might make JS look guilty. That’s a snag.

And this was asked before —but why would this ‘assistant’ do this on very short notice? They were both killed prior to midnight, according to the police. It goes from ‘hey, it’s Barry, do you have a minute...?’ ..to murder.

And BS calls this person on an untraceable landline (?) travels undetected, agrees and carries out this murder...just like that? From zero to murderer and crime scene stager with apparently no mistakes? (Again, no sarcasm, it makes no sense to me.)

Lexi, your statement (RBBM below) is a very interesting one, and one that I had not fully considered the implications of previously. Thank you for pointing it out:
"...BS would know the police would find the heated emails between himself and JS, that might make JS look guilty..".

Now, we know from KD's reporting that JS's email exchanges with BS were known to others prior to the murder. I believe it was reported that in fact BS had shared the emails with or shown the emails to others (coworkers? Friends?) And I think the Sherman daughters also knew about them, as they were copied on these emails by JS when he sent them.

So if others knew about the emails, isn't it possible that the killer(s) knew about them also, and knew that LE's investigation would be "skewed" or influenced by these emails? Isn't it possible that the killers figured out ahead of time that LE's focus would maybe be on JS due to the existence of these acrimonious email exchanges? And thereby afford the killers extra time to escape and destroy anything that could link them to the crime?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Lexi, your statement (RBBM below) is a very interesting one, and one that I had not fully considered the implications of previously. Thank you for pointing it out:
"...BS would know the police would find the heated emails between himself and JS, that might make JS look guilty..".

Now, we know from KD's reporting that JS's email exchanges with BS were known to others prior to the murder. I believe it was reported that in fact BS had shared the emails with or shown the emails to others (coworkers? Friends?) And I think the Sherman daughters also knew about them, as they were copied on these emails by JS when he sent them.

So if others knew about the emails, isn't it possible that the killer(s) knew about them also, and knew that LE's investigation would be "skewed" or influenced by these emails? Isn't it possible that the killers figured out ahead of time that LE's focus would maybe be on JS due to the existence of these acrimonious email exchanges? And thereby afford the killers extra time to escape and destroy anything that could link them to the crime?

Thank you as well, that didn’t occur to me.
: ( More suspects now.

Based on what you suggested I looked back at KD’s last article to see who may have known. The people that are in the loop of the Nov-Dec/2017 chain are:
-Jack Kay
-Alex Glasenberg
-Barry, of course
- Adam Paulin
-and JS.

Daughter AK and HS would have likely known...and then there may be others as JS said it was a ‘crisis’. IMO

I don’t know if this has been discussed, but I noticed something for the timeline:

- November 16th, 2017, BS sends an email to JS and AP requesting repayment of 50-60 million. (Mid-November BS comments in an email that JS’s ‘hostility persists’).

-November 28, 2017, height of disagreement between BS/AP & JS. Barry asks for return of money ASAP

-November 30, or December 1st, JS and his husband go to Japan ‘on vacation’, doesn’t act on BS’s demand for repayment.

-Approximately December 7th, 2017, BS pays $311,609 to a US company for JS’s surrogate’s fees.

​

-December 12th, 2017, daytime, HS uncharacteristically misses a meeting at the Baycrest Centre Foundation, as she was ‘dealing with some stuff’.

​

-December 12th, 2017, evening, JS and his husband return home from Japan.

-December 13th, 2017 was the last day the Shermans were seen alive. JS requests $17,677 USD from BS. BS instructs a staffer to send it to him.

-December 13th, 2017 @ 7:17 pm time code of photo JS’s hand with home in backs JS later shows to KD, to establish his whereabouts

(Many 7s and 17s in this timeline.)

Email & JS information, bbm:

On Nov. 28,

the day after the lunch, Paulin writes to Glasenberg, copying Barry and Jonathon. Subject: Short term cash needs. “Please see attached a breakdown of our immediate cash needs. Barry has agreed to cover us with these needs.” Paulin and Jonathon were requesting $6.2 million by Dec. 15 and another unspecified amount “no later than Jan. 15.” In my interview with Jonathon, he said they needed this money to fund plans already in the works to “build out” some of their storage facilities.

Three minutes later, Barry writes back: “Adam: As discussed, you have to take steps immediately to arrange mortgages (to repay the $50-60 million). What will you do and when?”

Paulin replies to Barry, copying Glasenberg and Jonathon: “Hi Barry, Yes, we are restarting these conversations with the banks to get this sorted out as soon as possible.” Adam says it will take “time and money” to get “appraisals” and arrange the bank mortgages, particularly as it is the holiday season, adding “the requested ($6.2 million) funds should get us through until financing is available.”

Barry replies to Paulin, copying to Jonathon and Glasenberg: “Ok but please do asap in case needed.”

Two days later, Jonathon and his husband, Fred Mercure, flew to Japan for a vacation. Jonathon says he believes Paulin had conversations with two banks regarding the mortgages. While in Japan, he said, he “started learning and trading” cryptocurrency and put the whole matter of the mortgages out of his mind. He said there were no more emails about the funding issue. He and Mercure would return home on Dec. 12, in the evening.

Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business

Information about the meeting HS missed, and her explanation, bbm;

On Dec. 12, 2017, the day before the couple was last seen alive, Honey missed a scheduled meeting at the Baycrest Centre Foundation. Were it any other board member, no one would’ve paid heed, says Josh Cooper, the foundation’s president and CEO. But Honey, a beloved queen bee in the upper echelons of Canadian philanthropy, was known for showing up—or else saying she couldn’t. “It was bizarre,” says Cooper. They sent an email to make sure she was okay. “Honey got back to us right away,” he says. “She said she was dealing with some stuff.”

Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman

More timeline info:Did someone know Barry and Honey Sherman’s schedule? Close friends were away and they had nothing planned

 

[Power of Two]

Hot off the press this morning... Perhaps Mr. Grady will be in a position to shed some light.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/family-sherman-deaths-police-probe-1.5896496

 

[WINDSOR]

I stand by my theory: Barry and Honey had an argument which turned physical....Barry injured Honey's fragile neck [prior surgeries]. The altercation occurred in another part of the house. When Barry realized that Honey was dead, he had someone close to him complete the scenario. Barry could not face the shame. He could not commit an ordinary suicide....that would forever paint him as a murderer. That someone followed Barry's instructions that led to the two bodies sitting by the swimming pool. That scenario explains everything: no shame, perfect double homicide, plenty of time to contact and convince someone to help him complete the scenario, no shadow on the family, wipes out possible guilt of family members. Barry was a controller. He could do that. He had the intelligence to plan all this out.

.

Previously, was there ever a case, in the many years of their marriage, that Barry and Honey had arguments that resulted in physical violence? I do not believe so. Based on domestic violence studies, the scenario you base your theory on, is highly unlikely. So if no domestic violence occurred, then there was no resultant death of Honey, and no M/S. Secondly if a man is a wife abuser, the likelyhood is he felt justified in some way, not shamed at the result of his actions. My opinion only

 

[Tealgrove]

Hot off the press this morning... Perhaps Mr. Grady will be in a position to shed some light.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/family-sherman-deaths-police-probe-1.5896496

Groundhog Day for sure. We've come full circle again.

MOO

 

[ldlager]

Hot off the press this morning... Perhaps Mr. Grady will be in a position to shed some light.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/family-sherman-deaths-police-probe-1.5896496

Like I said yesterday- the wheels keep going round and round.
I have a family member that is a retired police officer. It's getting to feel like he is the only retired police officer in Canada that the Sherman family hasn't yet hired

 

[ldlager]

Previously, was there ever a case, in the many years of their marriage, that Barry and Honey had arguments that resulted in physical violence? I do not believe so. Based on domestic violence studies, the scenario you base your theory on, is highly unlikely. So if no domestic violence occurred, then there was no resultant death of Honey, and no M/S. Secondly if a man is a wife abuser, the likelyhood is he felt justified in some way, not shamed at the result of his actions. My opinion only

"Secondly if a man is a wife abuser, the likelyhood is he felt justified in some way, not shamed at the result of his actions..." Or, I assume, vice versa just to be fair.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Hot off the press this morning... Perhaps Mr. Grady will be in a position to shed some light.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/family-sherman-deaths-police-probe-1.5896496

Thank you for the link. It’s great to see an investigative CBC journalist break this news. Kevin Donovan has been the only one breaking news on this case for many months now.

The three Sherman daughters seem to be standing apart from JS again.

From your link:
‘The other three of the Shermans' children are not on board with the effort.

On Wednesday, Alex Krawczyk, Lauren Sherman and Kaelen Sherman distanced themselves from the investigation

"Ms. Krawczyk remains steadfast in her support of Toronto Police Service as they investigate her parents' murders. She believes a parallel investigation will only serve to undermine their efforts," Krawczyk's lawyer, John Rosen, said in a letter to CBC News.’

 

[JayFriend]

Hot off the press this morning... Perhaps Mr. Grady will be in a position to shed some light.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/family-sherman-deaths-police-probe-1.5896496

I just came back to the forum after my email notifications ceased and I saw this news article. It sure helps saving the last notification so I can get back to the thread without spending 20 minutes going through old pages.
This is certainly a welcome development after so much procrastination and obfuscation and inaction by TPS. Ever the conspiracy theorist, I wonder if the TPS investigation has stalled due to people in high places being involved.

 

[bancam]

Maybe Doug Grady will helpfully unearth a previously undiscovered timestamped photograph taken by Jonathon’s husband of his hand at some clearly identifiable location far far away from Old Colony Road on the night of the deaths. And another one taken by Adam Paulin. After all, this is what people normally do of an evening.