CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #16

[CAMBRIAN]

My dear WINDSOR: apology accepted. If it is more pleasing to your ear, I offer to substitute the word "theory" by "judgment". As to "unassailable", I will concede that "sound" would be less presumptuous on my part.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Some points that may make the theory assailable:

• A third person would have to have been there for the staging: “As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool.” ‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses.
• Wrists were bound, then removed, and not found at the scene. “There are markings on the Shermans’ wrists, an indication that at some point their hands were tied together, though no rope or other ties were found near the bodies.” Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, private investigators claim
• Officially the deaths are homicides. “Toronto police announced today they are investigating the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman as a targeted double homicide.” https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4505259
  
• They have suspects. Detective sergeant Brandon Price: “Numerous ‘persons of interest’ have been, and continue to be, investigated throughout the course of this three year investigation…The goal of any investigation is to identify persons who may have been involved in an offence or to exclude them as suspects” Toronto police clarify reports over 'persons of interest' in Barry, Honey Sherman case - 680 NEWS
• Barry didn’t seem to get far past the garage before something interrupted his path. Barry’s gloves and the home inspection report were found right by the door to the underground garage as if he had been stopped right there.
• Motive and inclination are missing. Honey had physical challenges, but she was athletic, active and self-assured. If this was a domestic assault, why wasn’t Barry injured? A scratch, something? Some evidence of a struggle in the home? And by all accounts Barry was a pacifist who loved his wife and they both had many happy events occurring when this happened.

I understand this response is fruitless for you CAMBRIAN, you do not seem to be very open-minded to anything other than proving your theory is correct, nothing to do with facts that do not fit with your opinion and view. You will not accept any other logical proof as truth otherwise - why I have no clue but for me, you are acting somewhat like a 5-year-old child caught with the hand in a cookie jar and with a straight face can say not it was not me who took the cookie. Your responses are very coy and defensive, either you just want to stir the pot or you have a vision of the night or what I am not sure. here it goes anyway:

Can we add that HS stopped communicating with anyone after she arrived home (cell phone found in power room) more than 1 hour before Barry stopped communicating and arrived home? Why did HS stop communicating, she had lots on the to-do list before leaving for Florida why nothing from her since the call while she was driving home.

If he killed her by accident after he arrived home and you want to show M/S, why put the cell phone on the bathroom floor upstairs, why hide in the pool area where it would take days to find the bodies, why not leave a note, why set yourself up in the staged presentation like the statues - what purpose would that suite in your theory?

Bobbi Pearl

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Some points that may make the theory assailable:

• A third person would have to have been there for the staging: “As the Star has previously reported, the founder of Apotex generic drug company and his wife were strangled, most likely with a thin ligature similar to an industrial zip tie, and then were apparently posed in a seated position on the pool deck, leather belts around their neck tied to a low railing to keep them from falling back into the pool.” ‘New information’ discovered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder case from previously interviewed witnesses.
• Wrists were bound, then removed, and not found at the scene. “There are markings on the Shermans’ wrists, an indication that at some point their hands were tied together, though no rope or other ties were found near the bodies.” Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, private investigators claim
• Officially the deaths are homicides. “Toronto police announced today they are investigating the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman as a targeted double homicide.” https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4505259
  
• They have suspects. Detective sergeant Brandon Price: “Numerous ‘persons of interest’ have been, and continue to be, investigated throughout the course of this three year investigation…The goal of any investigation is to identify persons who may have been involved in an offence or to exclude them as suspects” Toronto police clarify reports over 'persons of interest' in Barry, Honey Sherman case - 680 NEWS
• Barry didn’t seem to get far past the garage before something interrupted his path. Barry’s gloves and the home inspection report were found right by the door to the underground garage as if he had been stopped right there.
• Motive and inclination are missing. Honey had physical challenges, but she was athletic, active and self-assured. If this was a domestic assault, why wasn’t Barry injured? A scratch, something? Some evidence of a struggle in the home? And by all accounts Barry was a pacifist who loved his wife and they both had many happy events occurring when this happened.

I understand this response is fruitless for you CAMBRIAN, you do not seem to be very open-minded to anything other than proving your theory is correct, nothing to do with facts that do not fit with your opinion and view. You will not accept any other logical proof as truth otherwise - why I have no clue but for me, you are acting somewhat like a 5-year-old child caught with the hand in a cookie jar and with a straight face can say not it was not me who took the cookie. Your responses are very coy and defensive, either you just want to stir the pot or you have a vision of the night or what I am not sure. here it goes anyway:

Can we add that HS stopped communicating with anyone after she arrived home (cell phone found in power room) more than 1 hour before Barry stopped communicating and arrived home? Why did HS stop communicating, she had lots on the to-do list before leaving for Florida why nothing from her since the call while she was driving home.

If he killed her by accident after he arrived home and you want to show M/S, why put the cell phone on the bathroom floor upstairs, why hide in the pool area where it would take days to find the bodies, why not leave a note, why set yourself up in the staged presentation like the statues - what purpose would that suite in your theory?

Bobbi Pearl

 

[dotr]

Assistance?
@ldlager Thanks for your comment, prompting me to think of a corresponding quote from a movie (sorry, cannot remember title):

A friend helps you move, a true friend helps you move a dead body.

As @WINDSOR posted (TYVM), Who among you, for your best friend, would partake in such a horrific homicide and staging afterwards? Anybody?
Me? Put my name on the list of big, loud, hard NO's.
AFAIK, I have no friend who'd assist me w. that request, not even staging. my2ct

Surprisingly common in the movies, but usually they pay a hit man not a friend.
Lights, Camera, Play Dead: The Top 10 Movies That Star a Corpse | Read | The Take

''After his ninth unsuccessful attempt on his own life, a young man outsources his suicide to an ageing assassin. "If you're serious about ending it, you need professional help"

Sort by Popularity - Most Popular Movies and TV Shows tagged with keyword "suicide-by-hitman" - IMDb
21 titles

1. Bulworth (1998)
A suicidally disillusioned liberal politician puts a contract out on himself and takes the opportunity to be bluntly honest with his voters by affecting the rhythms and speech of hip-hop music and culture.


2. Downloading Nancy (2008)
An unhappy wife orders a guy she meets over the Internet to kill her, but the two of them fall in love


3. I Hired a Contract Killer (1990)
After fifteen years' service, Henri Boulanger is made redundant from his job. Shocked, he attempts suicide, but can't go through with it, so he hires a contract killer in a seedy bar to ... See full summary


4. Bulletproof Heart (1994)
A slick New York assassin accepts an unusual hit: a woman who not only is expecting him, but who is more than willing to be murdered.


14. Suicide Me! (2011)
Alex wants to kill himself. But his self-preservation instinct stops him from doing it so he decides to hire an assassin to do the job for him. After signing the deal, Alex starts to panic,... See full summary »

 

[CAMBRIAN]

I understand this response is fruitless for you CAMBRIAN, you do not seem to be very open-minded to anything other than proving your theory is correct, nothing to do with facts that do not fit with your opinion and view. You will not accept any other logical proof as truth otherwise - why I have no clue but for me, you are acting somewhat like a 5-year-old child caught with the hand in a cookie jar and with a straight face can say not it was not me who took the cookie. Your responses are very coy and defensive, either you just want to stir the pot or you have a vision of the night or what I am not sure.

Bobbi Pearl

My Dear Bobbi Pearl: I choose not to respond. I always assumed that one could express an opini0n here without facing petty name calling.

 

[al66pine]

Theories?

I think any theory in this case has its weaknesses, including my own that fluctuates with different suspects.

@Lexiintoronto
Thanks for words of wisdom. Like yours, my theory could be added to list of theories w weaknesses (well, except I've not yet narrowed my thoughts down to single theory), so I'm not married to any one perp or theory.

I hope that noobs to this case or to W/S do not get the impression, that vets here are close-minded because we're convinced we know everything about a 3 1/2 y/o case, and noobs have nothing worthwhile to add. Many ppl here w different education, diff employment experiences, & diff life experiences can & do make meaningful contributions to a case discussion.
Lexi , TYVM for the reminder.

{{{ETA. Tricia's site is unique among the true crime boards, and Moderators spend a lot of time & effort on sometimes thankless work. I, for one, appreciate the opportunity to share & read views here.}}}
@CAMBRIAN
@Bobbi Pearl

 

[MistyWaters]

My Dear Bobbi Pearl: I choose not to respond. I always assumed that one could express an opini0n here without facing petty name calling.

I assume you know you’re not the first poster here to avidly present “the assistant” theory. The originator was KW, the same one who failed the polygraph on the 5th Estate, who adamantly declared the deaths to be m/s possibly assisted by JK, who we now know was in New York at the time of the double homicide.

Your adamant declaration stated as fact, not opinion, is very reminiscent of KW as well. “There will NEVER be an arrest. I repeat N-E-V-E-R. BS and HS had an argument which turned violent. Without pre-meditation nor intent, BS fatally injured HS.……” Yet much like KW, you have absolutely no proof to offer, while ignoring other member’s factual references providing strong doubt to your theory. Did something change and WS no longer encourages fact-based theories?

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #8
post #407 BBM
“As l clearly stated on The Fifth Estate and much of what l said never aired....Barry hated Honey. He was very unhappy in their marriage and often called her “mean spirited”. Barry also had a very brutal quick temper....he could turn on a dime. I also believe he had dementia....how far along l don’t know. Did Honey provoke him as l had witnessed on several occasions....possibly.
Barry may have lost it and hit Honey...not meaning to kill her. After he killed her, there was a few hours to think quick/straight and set up the scene of a double suicide....l believe l know who helped Barry orchestrate the diversion from murder suicide to double suicide…”

 

[Rush4087]

WITH DUE RESPECT TO THOSE WHO MOCK THE POSSIBILITY, THE M/S THEORY IS NOT BUNK. I SAID IT BEFORE SEVERAL TIMES: THE COUPLE HAD AN ARGUMENT WHICH BECAME PHYSICAL...WITHOUT INTENT TO KILL, BS DID IN FACT FATALLY HARM HS. TO PRESERVE HIS HONOUR AND LEGACY, HE CONCOCTED THE FINAL SCENARIO. FORGET HOW HE DID IT, - OR WHETHER HE FOUND SOMEONE TO HELP HIM....THAT IS SECONDARY TO THE MAIN PREMISE. UNTIL A SO-CALLED KILLER IS IDENTIFIED, MY THEORY STANDS UNASSAILABLE

There is ZERO proof the couple had an argument.

There is ZERO proof that the couple had an argument that became violent.

There is ZERO proof that “BS did in fact fatally harm HS”. Huh? Can you provide ANY PROOF of this?

There is ZERO proof that “to protect his honour and legacy he concocted the final scenario”

And NO I don’t think anybody can “forget how he did it” - “and whether he found someone to help him” Those are hugely important issues to any M/S claim.

And NO those issues are not “secondary to the main premise”. They are a big part of the main premise, even according to KW.

And NO, your theory DOESN’T “stand until a so called killer” is identified. There’s ZERO logic to that statement.

Where is the logic behind the statement: “MY theory stands until you can disprove it? There is NONE. Using this same logic, one could say that the targeted double homicide scenario is unassailable until somebody can prove IT wrong.

And SHOUTING in all caps doesn’t make your theory any more “unassailable” or any more plausible than anyone else’s. Facts matter. You have no proof.

Just my opinion.

 

[Rush4087]

MY THEORY WILL BE ASSAILABLE ONLY IF AND WHEN A SO CALLED KILLER IS IDENTIFIED AND CONVICTED.

Wrong (IMO). Your theory is assailable right now (as proof, many, incl TPS, have already assailed it). Jmo

eta: I tried to scroll and roll, I really did

 

[casesensitive]

Why did some members feel that they needed to apologize for their logical response to Cambrian's theory? It is understood that all comments are welcome on WS, but we are allowed to rebuke any comments that are controversial and contrary to the reports of a police investigation.

I noticed that Cambrian started posting again after the recent conversation turned to KW. I know it's not KW under another name, he has rarely commented on a post in three years, let alone calling anyone "dear". lol

 

[CAMBRIAN]

Goodness....I have shaken a hornet's nest. I feel like I am Julius Caesar and the Ides of March are upon us. Bobbie Pearl made sure that I was down and bleeding by posting her same post twice. I ask: is Bobby Pearl really Brutus ?

Say no more, please ! I shall remain quiet. Time will tell and I shall rise again to claim my laurel. Needless to add, M/S was accepted by the police until it was changed. I shall not venture as to why they changed their story...I would then shake another, and much bigger, hornet's nest. Cambrian will now quietly float away.

 

[WINDSOR]

Goodness....I have shaken a hornet's nest. I feel like I am Julius Caesar and the Ides of March are upon us. Bobbie Pearl made sure that I was down and bleeding by posting her same post twice. I ask: is Bobby Pearl really Brutus ?

Say no more, please ! I shall remain quiet. Time will tell and I shall rise again to claim my laurel. Needless to add, M/S was accepted by the police until it was changed. I shall not venture as to why they changed their story...I would then shake another, and much bigger, hornet's nest. Cambrian will now quietly float away.

I believe an important lesson we all can take away from this is 'Words Matter'. The English language is such a rich and diverse language. However some of the words have complex meanings, connotations, and implications that wield great emotional power. Cambrian has acknowledged that this reality previously.

All of us should be prudent in our word choices, so as to have our readers understand our real points.

Secondly when we disagree with a theory, as I did in this case, our response should be tempered. My initial response was not, and I apologized for that.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

My Dear Bobbi Pearl: I choose not to respond. I always assumed that one could express an opini0n here without facing petty name calling.

Correct I owe you an apology if I came across as name-calling. I was attempting to reference how I felt you are acting toward our thoughts and information we shared as an equal opinion of discussion, I did not intend to call you any names. But it is hard to have an open discussion if you will not open your mind and help us to better understand why you are so heart felt on your theory.

We do not know, you could be correct, we just do not see it your way, yet that is! if you could convince us with some precise reasoning?

Your post that got this started was in capitals yelling at all of us, "WITH DUE RESPECT TO THOSE WHO MOCK THE POSSIBILITY", you got me riled up and it showed in my response.

It would be great to have a decent open-minded two-way conversation with you so we could weigh in and out on some of the details, but you prefer not to.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Goodness....I have shaken a hornet's nest. I feel like I am Julius Caesar and the Ides of March are upon us. Bobbie Pearl made sure that I was down and bleeding by posting her same post twice. I ask: is Bobby Pearl really Brutus ?

Say no more, please ! I shall remain quiet. Time will tell and I shall rise again to claim my laurel. Needless to add, M/S was accepted by the police until it was changed. I shall not venture as to why they changed their story...I would then shake another, and much bigger, hornet's nest. Cambrian will now quietly float away.

sorry I did not try to post twice at all not sure how that happened.

add:
Just want to add, that you should not call me names if you are calling me out for it.

I myself and I think like most others here discussing have no laurel to claim that we have the correct theory here, it is not a competition to me. This is a family dealing with brutal deaths in the family and we the public with an interest in justice want to see if we can help.
Bobbi Pearl.

 

[ldlager]

Apology gracefully accepted. I think we all feel the frustration that a resolution has yet to come. But, to wave my banner once more, my theory becomes more credible as time goes on. It is difficult for normal people to comprehend that someone would assist in the final scenario....but there are dozens, or hundreds, of strange and weird minds roaming the streets. It just takes one to make my theory possible.

Cambrian, would you classify KW as a potential or even likely candidate for the role of the "assistant" to BS in committing these crimes?
Irrespective of your stated intention to "float away", I would be interested in your answer to this question. Thank you.

 

[dotr]

BS would surely be proud of this, imo. rbbm.
Government of Canada Awards Apotex Inc. a Significant Contract to Supply a Safety Net of Additional Dexamethasone in Canada
Apr 15, 2021
''Part of the Critical Drug Reserve in COVID-19 Response

TORONTO, April 15, 2021 /CNW/ - As Canadians remain impacted by the spread of COVID-19, Apotex, Canada's largest pharmaceutical company has been awarded a contract with the Government of Canada to supply the Critical Drug Reserve of Dexamethasone tablets in response to the COVID-19 pandemic.

Dexamethasone is a corticosteroid used in a wide range of conditions for its anti-inflammatory and immunosuppressant effects.

According to the World Health Organization, "It was tested in hospitalized patients with COVID-19 in the United Kingdom's national clinical trial RECOVERY and was found to have benefits for critically ill patients. According to preliminary findings shared with WHO (and now available as a preprint), for patients on ventilators, the treatment was shown to reduce mortality by about one third, and for patients requiring only oxygen, mortality was cut by about one fifth."

After being informed of the outcome of the competitive process, Apotex significantly ramped up production to manufacture the supply, which represents five times the total current market demand for dexamethasone. The scale up will continue throughout 2021 and will ensure Canadians currently being treated with the drug for approved indications have continued access.

"At Apotex, we are proud to produce more than 95% of our portfolio for Canadians in Canada," said Raymond Shelley, SVP, Commercial Operations-Canada & Caribbean. "This pandemic has further shown the benefits of domestic manufacturing as our fully integrated facilities allow us to easily adjust our manufacturing and distribution in order to meet urgent government and patient needs."

 

[CAMBRIAN]

Cambrian, would you classify KW as a potential or even likely candidate for the role of the "assistant" to BS in committing these crimes?
Irrespective of your stated intention to "float away", I would be interested in your answer to this question. Thank you.

I floated away, but a north-easterly wind made be return for a brief moment. KW: absolutely not. The "assistant", if that is the case, had to be someone in whom BS had complete and absolute trust and who would have all to loose should he/she be identified in the future.

 

[Rush4087]

I floated away, but a north-easterly wind made be return for a brief moment. KW: absolutely not. The "assistant", if that is the case, had to be someone in whom BS had complete and absolute trust and who would have all to loose should he/she be identified in the future.

There was no assistant (jmo). Name one similar crime in the last 200 years in any country - where there’s been an accidental murder, then the summoning of an assistant, then an assisted suicide, and then a staging by the assistant to make things appear like a double murder (all because a murder-suicide would obviously be much more embarrassing to the murderer than a double homicide).

Btw, just how did BS summon the assistant? Smoke signals? He couldn’t have used the phone. Wouldn’t there be a record of any phone call? It makes no sense that he set it up in advance. That’s conspiracy to commit murder.

I assume the assistant came with gloves and a hat and zip ties (in case BS changed his mind and struggled at the last minute). I wonder where the assistant parked (and if it was JK, just how DID he get there from NY)? And wouldn’t there be a record of his travels if he did?

And why did the assistant leave BS’s leg’s casually crossed and his glasses perched on his nose like he was watching TV? That certainly wouldn’t appear to LE like somebody in the final throes of a violent death by forced hanging. And wouldn’t BS have requested a broken hyoid, lest the whole thing might appear staged? And I guess the assistant zip tied and then un zip tied their wrists to make it look like a double homicide. He also probably grabbed BS’s papers and threw them on the floor in that hallway to make it look like an ambush.

But why did HS still have her coat on (she had to have been home at least an hour or two before BS)? And why did BS still have his coat on up until when the assistant got there? He was home with a dead HS for at least a couple hours before the assistant would’ve arrived. It must’ve been awfully cold in the house.

And if the assistant was JK, wasn’t he 77? So a 77 yo and 75 yr moved HS? Wait. Maybe JK, after realizing he couldn’t adequately pull off the staging himself, called (or smoke signaled) ANOTHER assistant (it had to be somebody BS AND JK could really really trust though). I bet that’s what happened.

ETA: btw, I don’t think KW did it. But I think he knows (or thinks he knows) who did. All just my opinion.

 

[FromGermany1]

ETA: btw, I don’t think KW did it. But I think he knows (or thinks he knows) who did. All just my opinion.

Does he suspect a person, who got all the money from BS without any guarantee of paying back and who was admired by BS for his verve in starting different big projects?

 

[WINDSOR]

If KW did have a suspect in mind, why would he be supporting the M/S theory?

If KW has a suspect in mind, and told the TPS, would they believe him?