CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[newclues]

Do you know where we might see that video?

See from 0:54-1:12
There must be a longer version of it and it doesn't say when it was taken.

 

[newclues]

They probably surveyed them beforehand noting how they may have parked before. Also, automatic garage doors usually make noise so that upon hearing it open they may have very quickly moved downstairs if they were upstairs. This all appears to have been an ambush in waiting against HS first and later BS with someone probably choking them by surprise from behind as soon as they entered their house maybe in the dark with some belt, rope, wire, string or zip tie. Then, they probably moved HS first to the pool room after killing her and reset waiting for BS who came home later to repeat the same thing on him later. It appears that they may not even have had a chance to take off their winter coats. Is there any evidence that a taser was used to subdue any of them first?

I based my information on the following video:

 

[WINDSOR]

I had previously spoke about snap points, events that might have triggered the perpetrator to put things in motion that resulted in the deaths of B&S.

I have been thinking about Barry's request from Jon for $50 million to be returned, in November. Then at the end of November Jon goes to Japan.
Is there any way of knowing or discovering when the planning and booking for the Japan trip was started? Was it a impulsive decision, or was on the schedule months before?

Secondly, if I wanted to learn about something as complex as crypto currencies, I think I would think I would go to a place where I was familiar with the language, culture or the site had specific expertise. Japan is not a country I would think, has unique knowledge of crypto currencies. Japan was an early adopter of crypto trading, and still is. But the USA is the real expert.

 

[Window21]

I just realized they still have the same security team working for them: This interview was early 2021

"A couple of hours into our interview, there is a knock on the side door of the garage. Jonathon gets up. It is one of his security team doing a “health check” to see if Jonathon is OK."

“Yup, all good,” Jonathon says, returning to his seat. When their parents were killed, the Sherman children hired security guards who had previously worked for Bank Hapoalim in Israel. A detail was assigned to all four children, and as well as Apotex executives including Jack Kay. Kay lost his security detail when Jonathon fired him, a year and a day after Barry and Honey were killed. To this day, the security detail is never more than a few metres from Jonathon, his sister Alex and Alex’s husband, Brad, whenever they leave their homes. I do not know if the same applies to siblings Kaelen and Lauren, who have not replied to interview requests."

Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business

 

[Betty P]

I just realized they still have the same security team working for them: This interview was early 2021

"A couple of hours into our interview, there is a knock on the side door of the garage. Jonathon gets up. It is one of his security team doing a “health check” to see if Jonathon is OK."

“Yup, all good,” Jonathon says, returning to his seat. When their parents were killed, the Sherman children hired security guards who had previously worked for Bank Hapoalim in Israel. A detail was assigned to all four children, and as well as Apotex executives including Jack Kay. Kay lost his security detail when Jonathon fired him, a year and a day after Barry and Honey were killed. To this day, the security detail is never more than a few metres from Jonathon, his sister Alex and Alex’s husband, Brad, whenever they leave their homes. I do not know if the same applies to siblings Kaelen and Lauren, who have not replied to interview requests."

Barry Sherman’s son says his father asked him to repay tens of millions of dollars, two weeks before murders, but Barry was ‘all in’ with son’s business

I wondered about this when I read that interview with the son - why did Barry and Honey not have security at their home that day? When did they use security? When he was at work?

 

[ldlager]

They probably surveyed them beforehand noting how they may have parked before. Also, automatic garage doors usually make noise so that upon hearing it open they may have very quickly moved downstairs if they were upstairs. This all appears to have been an ambush in waiting against HS first and later BS with someone probably choking them by surprise from behind as soon as they entered their house maybe in the dark with some belt, rope, wire, string or zip tie. Then, they probably moved HS first to the pool room after killing her and reset waiting for BS who came home later to repeat the same thing on him later. It appears that they may not even have had a chance to take off their winter coats. Is there any evidence that a taser was used to subdue any of them first?

I agree that the killer could easily have looked out the window and watched BS go down the driveway, and met him at the entrance from the garage.
However, I do not believe BS was murdered at the entrance. Dragging him all the way to the pool area would have required considerable strength. I believe he was forced to walk to the pool area and was killed there. Pure conjecture on my part.

 

[SUSAN ANN]

I agree that the killer could easily have looked out the window and watched BS go down the driveway, and met him at the entrance from the garage.
However, I do not believe BS was murdered at the entrance. Dragging him all the way to the pool area would have required considerable strength. I believe he was forced to walk to the pool area and was killed there. Pure conjecture on my part.

I have wondered that also if BS was attacked at the door. I also wonder if it did happen where the perpetrator walked BS to the pool room was Honey’s body already there? How do you think that might have unraveled?

 

[Sphinx]

I have wondered that also if BS was attacked at the door. I also wonder if it did happen where the perpetrator walked BS to the pool room was Honey’s body already there? How do you think that might have unraveled?

I think there is evidence to support him being attacked at the door. He dropped his papers and gloves there on the floor. It could be that once the killer took him by surprise from behind, he then quickly pulled his jacket down to prevent him from resisting with his arms and hands, then put zip ties on his wrists, or maybe even hand cuffs. At that point, I suspect that a professional assassin would waste no time, and strangle him with something they carry just for strangulation. It might have been some kind of battery operated padded collar that would close tighter and tighter on his neck in a matter of seconds, or something as simple as a shoelace. It would probably be the latter because if he were stopped by the police he would not want to be found carrying any kind of weapon. I think that in order to guarantee success there would be at least two killers in the house, with lookouts outside,perhaps even hiding in a nearby house, ( were there any empty houses, owners gone south ? etc. ) garage, or parked car. A professional hit man would want to kill him right away, and not waste time trying to force him to walk to the pool area, in my opinion. I hope it happened something like this, and very quickly so he did not suffer very long, and I especially hope that he did not have to see Honey dead, lying there by the pool, and realize what was about to happen to him too. IMO

 

[SUSAN ANN]

I think there is evidence to support him being attacked at the door. He dropped his papers and gloves there on the floor. It could be that once the killer took him by surprise from behind, he then quickly pulled his jacket down to prevent him from resisting with his arms and hands, then put zip ties on his wrists, or maybe even hand cuffs. At that point, I suspect that a professional assassin would waste no time, and strangle him with something they carry just for strangulation. It might have been some kind of battery operated padded collar that would close tighter and tighter on his neck in a matter of seconds, or something as simple as a shoelace. It would probably be the latter because if he were stopped by the police he would not want to be found carrying any kind of weapon. I think that in order to guarantee success there would be at least two killers in the house, with lookouts outside,perhaps even hiding in a nearby house, ( were there any empty houses, owners gone south ? etc. ) garage, or parked car. A professional hit man would want to kill him right away, and not waste time trying to force him to walk to the pool area, in my opinion. I hope it happened something like this, and very quickly so he did not suffer very long, and I especially hope that he did not have to see Honey dead, lying there by the pool, and realize what was about to happen to him too. IMO

That makes sense. Very plausible. It will be interesting when this case is finally solved to know what really happened. I didn’t know there was such a thing as a battery operated collar. Yikes! I guess I live in a sheltered world. Several posts ago someone commented regarding his boot on the video, and the tongue flapping, and is it possible he used the lace from that boot… maybe someday we will know.

 

[newclues]

Is there any frame by frame NW video version?

 

[dotr]

Video shows suspect in Barry and Honey Sherman murders - YouTube
Dec 14 2021
Suspect in Sherman Double Homicide Investigation - YouTube
''Security video of person identified as a suspect in the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman who were found dead on December 15, 2017. This person's purpose in the neighbourhood is unexplained. The timing of the appearance is in line with when investigators believe the murders took place. Investigators ask the public to pay particular attention to the person's gait, how they are walking. Through analysis it is believed the suspect is between 5'6 3/4" and 5'9 1/2." There may be a legitimate reason this person is in the neighbourhood and police urge the person to come forward. Anyone with information should call Homicide at 416-808-7400 or give a tip anonymously at Crime Stoppers 416-222-8477 (TIPS).''

 

[deugirtni]

I agree that the killer could easily have looked out the window and watched BS go down the driveway, and met him at the entrance from the garage.
However, I do not believe BS was murdered at the entrance. Dragging him all the way to the pool area would have required considerable strength. I believe he was forced to walk to the pool area and was killed there. Pure conjecture on my part.

It would likely be easy enough for a strong person to drag someone.. perhaps this is why the wrists were tied, to use as something to hold onto while dragging to the pool? The pool, from what my interpretation is of the floorplan, is not that far from the garage door? (But admittedly, I'm also geographically disabled)

 

[deugirtni]

Is there any frame by frame NW video version?

On youtube at least (possibly other platforms as well?), you can slow down the speed.. under settings..

 

[FromGermany1]

I think there is evidence to support him being attacked at the door. He dropped his papers and gloves there on the floor. It could be that once the killer took him by surprise from behind, he then quickly pulled his jacket down to prevent him from resisting with his arms and hands, then put zip ties on his wrists, or maybe even hand cuffs. At that point, I suspect that a professional assassin would waste no time, and strangle him with something they carry just for strangulation. It might have been some kind of battery operated padded collar that would close tighter and tighter on his neck in a matter of seconds, or something as simple as a shoelace. It would probably be the latter because if he were stopped by the police he would not want to be found carrying any kind of weapon. I think that in order to guarantee success there would be at least two killers in the house, with lookouts outside,perhaps even hiding in a nearby house, ( were there any empty houses, owners gone south ? etc. ) garage, or parked car. A professional hit man would want to kill him right away, and not waste time trying to force him to walk to the pool area, in my opinion. I hope it happened something like this, and very quickly so he did not suffer very long, and I especially hope that he did not have to see Honey dead, lying there by the pool, and realize what was about to happen to him too. IMO

How did the killer manage to not leave his foot print on threwn papers, I wonder ......

 

[FromGermany1]

I have wondered that also if BS was attacked at the door. I also wonder if it did happen where the perpetrator walked BS to the pool room was Honey’s body already there? How do you think that might have unraveled?

If the pool of Honey's blood had been on the floor near the railing, I think, she had been carried or led there before Barry returned home. After the last murder the killer had limited time to stay there in the house, so I think, one murder was done and maybe even staged "properly" already. IMO

 

[newclues]

For it to be a one man operation, the killer most likely had to be a well-paid professional who had to do things quickly and efficiently. This must have all of been planned ahead of time in order to execute it within three hours. Since the pool room was the furthest/farthest back unused downstairs room, it was probably chosen in order for the bodies to be discovered as late as possible by anyone. The posing of the bodies was probably done in order to make it look like a m/s in order to confuse LE which it did. The bodies weren't discovered until at least 36 hours (1.5 days) later and it was first thought by LE to be a m/s for at least a week or more. It looks like all of this bought/brought the killer a lot of a head start time beyond the critical first 48 hours after a crime was committed for LE to be on the proper evidence hot trail chase of a killer.

 

[Sphinx]

If the pool of Honey's blood had been on the floor near the railing, I think, she had been carried or led there before Barry returned home. After the last murder the killer had limited time to stay there in the house, so I think, one murder was done and maybe even staged "properly" already. IMO

Yes, I agree that a killer would want to spend as little time as possible at the scene of the crime. If he did work alone, and the Shermans both arrived at the house at the same time, he might have hidden, and waited until they were asleep, then killed them, but I think if the killer(s) had carefully watched them for a month, as has been reported as a strong possibility by the police, then it is likely they knew what time Barry usually arrived home from work. Honey could have shopped for a longer time, and arrived home much later than she did, but they likely expected her to return home first for her evening meal, which again would likely be according to her routine.

If another killer was at the house, how did he/she come and go ? The police said the NW was the only person on video film that did not seem to belong in the neighbourhood, and whose movements were suspicious around the Sherman house within the time frame the murders took place.
In a more elaborate hypothetical plan, it is possible that member(s) of the household staff were involved, and their comings and goings would not be so suspicious, but I think that one highly trained assassin, with military training in killing, could take two seniors separately by surprise, and murder them very quickly. It is still possible that household staff were involved, and gave the killers information about the Sherman's routines, the house plan, the alarms ( or maybe turned the one camera off in the basement before the murders ) left a back door unlocked etc. I keep going back to Honey's phone on the floor in the upstairs powder room, and Barry's gloves and papers on the floor near the backdoor. I believe this marks their areas of attack. It also seems that no " cleaner " came by to tidy up those mistakes, which would indicate that it was a staged murder/suicide. It is possible that the killer, who was very experienced in quick and efficient killing in a military setting, was not as experienced in staging, and forgot to tidy up the attack areas, and concentrated on staging the bodies by the pool area, then quickly left the house. I think he must have exited by a door not used by either Sherman that night, or he would have seen the phone, or the papers. Perhaps other members of WS, more familiar with the floor plan than myself, could suggest which other door the killer might have used to exit. We know a basement window was left open to remove paint fumes. Was that large enough for someone to use as an entrance/exit point, or could it be removed and easily replaced ? Maybe a large bulky coat could be removed to make this maneuver easier ? IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

For it to be a one man operation, the killer most likely had to be a well-paid professional who had to do things quickly and efficiently. This must have all of been planned ahead of time in order to execute it within three hours. Since the pool room was the furthest/farthest back unused downstairs room, it was probably chosen in order for the bodies to be discovered as late as possible by anyone. The posing of the bodies was probably done in order to make it look like a m/s in order to confuse LE which it did. The bodies weren't discovered until at least 36 hours (1.5 days) later and it was first thought by LE to be a m/s for at least a week or more. It looks like all of this bought/brought the killer a lot of a head start time beyond the critical first 48 hours after a crime was committed for LE to be on the proper evidence hot trail chase of a killer.

As the homicide squad took over the investigation early on, I’m not sure why that’s not an indication LE was investigating a possible homicide. I don’t think they were confused although it might’ve been that the killer intended that. It doesn’t take weeks for a pathologist to notice marks from wrist bindings, it’s just that we haven’t been given a timeline.

Police release cause of death of Barry and Honey Sherman
“……Homicide detectives have taken over the investigation into the deaths of billionaire Barry Sherman and his wife Honey after autopsies revealed the couple died from "ligature neck compression," Toronto police said Sunday night.

Police issued a brief statement, but refused to comment further about the deaths of the couple, who were found in their Toronto home on Friday.

"That is what the post-mortem indicates and that is the terminology that they give us," Const. Michelle Flannery said when asked to elaborate on findings from autopsies performed over the weekend.

The statement said homicide detectives have taken the lead on investigating the deaths, which have been classified as "suspicious."

Homicide detectives have been involved in the investigation since Friday…..”

 

[dotr]

Re post. Just to keep this guy in mind .

Toronto police ask for help identifying ‘highly suspicious’ person in billionaire murder case

''The poor quality of the video means the the skin colour, weight and gender of the suspect are not known. Police say video analysis suggests the individual is between 5’6 and 5’9 tall. The suspect, who has an unusual gait, walks into an area not captured by any video surveillance, stays for a “suspicious” amount of time, and then leaves.
Price said the footage is not the only video they have of the suspect, but chose to released a clip they believe had the “greatest likelihood” of someone being able to identify the person.''

Toronto Police Service
''Security video of person identified as a suspect in the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman who were found dead on December 15, 2017. This person's purpose in the neighbourhood is unexplained. The timing of the appearance is in line with when investigators believe the murders took place. Investigators ask the public to pay particular attention to the person's gait, how they are walking. Through analysis it is believed the suspect is between 5'6 3/4" and 5'9 1/2." There may be a legitimate reason this person is in the neighbourhood and police urge the person to come forward. Anyone with information should call Homicide at 416-808-7400 or give a tip anonymously at Crime Stoppers 416-222-8477 (TIPS).''

This former detective thinks suspect's distinct walk could be 'subterfuge' | Sherman murders
Dec 15, 2021

 

[WINDSOR]

Yes, I agree that a killer would want to spend as little time as possible at the scene of the crime. If he did work alone, and the Shermans both arrived at the house at the same time, he might have hidden, and waited until they were asleep, then killed them, but I think if the killer(s) had carefully watched them for a month, as has been reported as a strong possibility by the police, then it is likely they knew what time Barry usually arrived home from work. Honey could have shopped for a longer time, and arrived home much later than she did, but they likely expected her to return home first for her evening meal, which again would likely be according to her routine.

If another killer was at the house, how did he/she come and go ? The police said the NW was the only person on video film that did not seem to belong in the neighbourhood, and whose movements were suspicious around the Sherman house within the time frame the murders took place.
In a more elaborate hypothetical plan, it is possible that member(s) of the household staff were involved, and their comings and goings would not be so suspicious, but I think that one highly trained assassin, with military training in killing, could take two seniors separately by surprise, and murder them very quickly. It is still possible that household staff were involved, and gave the killers information about the Sherman's routines, the house plan, the alarms ( or maybe turned the one camera off in the basement before the murders ) left a back door unlocked etc. I keep going back to Honey's phone on the floor in the upstairs powder room, and Barry's gloves and papers on the floor near the backdoor. I believe this marks their areas of attack. It also seems that no " cleaner " came by to tidy up those mistakes, which would indicate that it was a staged murder/suicide. It is possible that the killer, who was very experienced in quick and efficient killing in a military setting, was not as experienced in staging, and forgot to tidy up the attack areas, and concentrated on staging the bodies by the pool area, then quickly left the house. I think he must have exited by a door not used by either Sherman that night, or he would have seen the phone, or the papers. Perhaps other members of WS, more familiar with the floor plan than myself, could suggest which other door the killer might have used to exit. We know a basement window was left open to remove paint fumes. Was that large enough for someone to use as an entrance/exit point, or could it be removed and easily replaced ? Maybe a large bulky coat could be removed to make this maneuver easier ? IMO

Professionals like you describe, would not involve the household staff in the crime. The risk of the staff making a mistake, saying something accidently or 'folding' under interrogation by investigators is just too great.