CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[WINDSOR]

I see your point, but what if other "professionals" were planted in the household a long time before the murders, and were spying on them ? After the murders, I think most of that staff lost their jobs, and where are they now ? This theory may seem fanciful, but The Shermans were very high profile, wealthy people in The Jewish Community, and the family is now being guarded by former Mossad officers. It is possible that someone, some organization, or even some high ranking political figures in Canada, The USA, or Israel wanted to keep tabs on them for years before the murders. Many intelligence agents lead double lives for long periods of time. IMO

I am pretty sure the TPS checked out each of the household staff; when they began to work for the Shermans, as well as their histories and so on.

 

[WINDSOR]

delete

 

[deugirtni]

It is interesting how generous BS was with some his family members, friends, etc. who squandered and wasted the millions that they were given and they even came back for some more money. If I ever came into even a fraction of what they got, I wouldn't take it for granted and burn through it like nothing.

Just a general observation through my lifetime.. it seems to me like the more money people have, the more they 'require'. Even some I've known who were at one time in the dregs of poverty and whose lives subsequently improved drastically, seem to forget from whence they came, and find a 'need' for every penny of their newer-found income, and then end up struggling if they miss a day of work or their vehicle requires extensive repairs. Many seem to look at B&H (more B than H, apparently!) with disdain for seeming 'cheap', chintzy, whatever, for driving their vehicles into the ground rather than getting new ones every year or three, or flying in the cheap seats, or what have you, but I admire both of the Shermans for their seeming frugality even when they could've afforded anything at all. I also admire their interest in sharing their wealth for the betterment of others. I can seriously visualize the two of them rolling over in their graves if they knew how their home and so many of their possessions were sent to the landfill (or buried, whatever was done with it all?). Everyday people, thinking about how great it would be to be given tons of money from a wealthy friend/family member, might think we wouldn't burn through it.. but.. as in all things, that notion might change when/if actually wearing the shoes. It would sure be nice to find out however, how we might deal with it if we were suddenly gifted with piles of money. imo.

 

[ldlager]

Idk if it means that the individual who killed the S’s had inside information or not, but wasn’t it posted earlier in these threads (by KW) that his brother’s best friend’s wife worked as a personal trainer for BS (and noted how strong BS was for his age). Certainly the personal trainer would’ve known BS’s schedule.

I am not sure why/how the personal trainer would have BS schedule. He/she would know when the training sessions were booked, but how would they know the rest of their schedules?

 

[newclues]

Did BS get the home inspection certificate from his lawyer and was he going to give it to his real estate agent? When was this certificate from? When was a home inspection made?

 

[Window21]

Warren Buffet is very similar to BS from what I have read about him in the past.
Warren lives in a very modest home, apparently around 2000 sq feet. Drove an older model car, paid for his kids education but refuses to give them a job. (that is different from BS). My point is that people that are self made millionaires or Billionaires are more often than not quite frugal when it comes to themselves and being wasteful with their funds.

I had the liberty of being around some very successful and rich people in my days and it seems most of them are like Warren, and one would never know how rich they really are. They quietly give millions of dollars away and are usually quite eager to give a close friend or family member a helping hand.

The people that are born into wealth or inherited money more often than not are the jerks, and spend like crazy. This is just my experiences and what I have observed over the years.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Did BS get the home inspection certificate from his lawyer and was he going to give it to his real estate agent? When was this certificate from? When was a home inspection made?

It has only been reported that it was a home inspection report for 50 Old Colony. A home inspection belongs to the person who ordered it (the owner or purchaser), so I think it was a pre-sale home inspection, imo.

 

[Tobiano8th]

I agree on people's spending.. people spend what they have/earn (or what their parents have in many cases)...... I've made big money and had periods where I made little money and my spending almost perfectly matched that. I didn't really miss the discretionary spending when I didn't have the money though.

I don't find big inherited wealth people as annoying or thankless.. just my personal experience.

probably know 6 or 7 billionaires..... all very down-to-earth (at least they seemed to me). the one who was not down-to-earth was just obsessed with his company's products. his wealth in some ways made little difference to him other than it proved his products were the best........... if I expanded it to hundred millionaires, I have known tons and tons and tons of them. again, usually down to earth. basically don't need to prove/pose. they are the real deal.

 

[Tobiano8th]

it's funny that BS was such a hard-driving, brilliant detail-oriented executive.

but then his ad-hoc investments seem to be disaster after disaster. like a leaking sieve............. he did make big money (maybe at least a billion) from Barr Labs (name?) but I think that was a Pharma (generic?) company. EDIT: at one time, he owned a third of Barr stock. and I think it was sold for huge $$$$ to Teva so he must have made a fortune (by that time he probably owned a much much smaller % of the companies shares... but way more shares outstanding)

 

[Tobiano8th]

it looks like Barry Sherman (and maybe at least one partner.. Jack Kay?) owned 8.5% of Barr. Barr was sold for $7.46B US$ in 2008. convert to C$ = $9.5B or so. call it C$10B. $850MM....

so at the time around the whole Empire Labs was sold, BS invested in Apotex and Lab.. I am actually somewhat sympathetic to the argument that BS should have built something on his own and his cousins behalf through the years.

 

[Rush4087]

I am not sure why/how the personal trainer would have BS schedule. He/she would know when the training sessions were booked, but how would they know the rest of their schedules?

No, the point of my post was that the trainer probably knew whether or not there was an appt scheduled with BS for that night. The trainer could have unknowingly or knowingly passed this information on to the killer.

I did not mean to suggest that a personal trainer would necessarily know the ins and outs and specific details of the comprehensive daily schedules of both Sherman’s.
All jmo

 

[newclues]

it's funny that BS was such a hard-driving, brilliant detail-oriented executive.

but then his ad-hoc investments seem to be disaster after disaster. like a leaking sieve............. he did make big money (maybe at least a billion) from Barr Labs (name?) but I think that was a Pharma (generic?) company. EDIT: at one time, he owned a third of Barr stock. and I think it was sold for huge $$$$ to Teva so he must have made a fortune (by that time he probably owned a much much smaller % of the companies shares... but way more shares outstanding)

Some when they make money at doing something very well, they start to think that they have the Midas touch and start putting their money into anything and everything so that they lose money. Those who continue to do well usually stick to the area or thing which makes them money. It seems that most of the investments where he lost money in had to do with him trying to help his family and friends by investing in their ideas and businesses.

 

[dotr]

Jan 13 2022
‘Tower dump’ was a bust in Barry and Honey Sherman murders | The Star
'The Toronto Star has won court-approved access to police investigative documents in the now four-year-old Barry and Honey Sherman murder case, and the information is being released in chronological order, not all at once. Last week, we reported that in September 2020, homicide detectives believed they were on to something as they began to compare roughly 300 cellphone numbers of people connected to the Shermans to “tower dumps” of cellular phone communications near their home and Barry’s office. The hope was to find a link to the mysterious “walking man” believed to be the killer. In today’s instalment, the Star reveals the deflating news police learned just a few months ago, and the current focus on “new information.”

Bell, Rogers, Telus and Freedom Mobile were served with court-ordered “production orders” to release cellphone “tower dumps” to the Toronto Police Intelligence Unit. It was a considerable task for the telecommunications companies, assembling thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of bits of data — the electronic tracings of phone calls and text messages that passed through cellular towers in two areas Barry and Honey travelled both the night they were murdered, and at other key times.''

 

[ldlager]

Jan 13 2022
‘Tower dump’ was a bust in Barry and Honey Sherman murders | The Star
'The Toronto Star has won court-approved access to police investigative documents in the now four-year-old Barry and Honey Sherman murder case, and the information is being released in chronological order, not all at once. Last week, we reported that in September 2020, homicide detectives believed they were on to something as they began to compare roughly 300 cellphone numbers of people connected to the Shermans to “tower dumps” of cellular phone communications near their home and Barry’s office. The hope was to find a link to the mysterious “walking man” believed to be the killer. In today’s instalment, the Star reveals the deflating news police learned just a few months ago, and the current focus on “new information.”

Bell, Rogers, Telus and Freedom Mobile were served with court-ordered “production orders” to release cellphone “tower dumps” to the Toronto Police Intelligence Unit. It was a considerable task for the telecommunications companies, assembling thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of bits of data — the electronic tracings of phone calls and text messages that passed through cellular towers in two areas Barry and Honey travelled both the night they were murdered, and at other key times.''

Thanks Dotr. Branmuffin, this is a good picture of the snow melted from the driveway

 

[WINDSOR]

A lot of us, like the TPS had hoped the tower dump would be fruitful. On the TV shows it always seems to work.
Can one now assume either.
a) The 300 cellphone numbers the TPS used to compare, were not one of the ones the killers used.
b) There was strict communication protocols on the part of the killers, such as, they did not use traceable devices.

 

[ldlager]

A lot of us, like the TPS had hoped the tower dump would be fruitful. On the TV shows it always seems to work.
Can one now assume either.
a) The 300 cellphone numbers the TPS used to compare, were not one of the ones the killers used.
b) There was strict communication protocols on the part of the killers, such as, they did not use traceable devices.

Or the killer's # is in the 300 but he/she left their phone at home that night.

 

[deugirtni]

It only makes sense that the killer and/or the hiring party, would be sophisticated enough to think of using burner phone(s). imo.

 

[branmuffin]

I'll be the first to admit that I know virtually nothing about how cell phone tower dumps work. Conversely, I know virtually nothing about how cell phone jammers work other than they are illegal in lots of countries because they can interfere with 911 calls, etc.

However, is it possible for a specific period of time leading up to the murder and for a period of time afterwards (to allow killers to skedaddle) that investigators may have seen a block of time with very little activity that could coincide with the murder timeline? Or am I way off base here? Thanks.

Cell Phone Jammers - 3 Reasons Why They're Illegal - Cellbusters

 

[dotr]

Still wondering if the killers found a way to temporarily mess around with cell and/or landline phone activity in the area, speculation, imo.
May. 31, 2019
Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead
''Toronto police were investigating a mysterious 911 call down the street from Barry and Honey Sherman’s home at the same time as the Apotex founder and his wife lay dead or dying, a Star investigation reveals.

The Shermans lived at 50 Old Colony Rd. They were last seen alive on the evening of Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2017. Their bodies were discovered two days later. No official time of death has been released but sources close to the case have said it is believed the Shermans died late on Wednesday or early Thursday morning. Police are investigating the case as a targeted double homicide.

On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony, near Bayview Ave. and Hwy. 401''
On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony, near Bayview Ave. and Hwy. 401.

The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners’ house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.''

 

[branmuffin]

Still wondering if the killers found a way to temporarily mess around with cell and/or landline phone activity in the area, speculation, imo.
May. 31, 2019
Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead
''Toronto police were investigating a mysterious 911 call down the street from Barry and Honey Sherman’s home at the same time as the Apotex founder and his wife lay dead or dying, a Star investigation reveals.

The Shermans lived at 50 Old Colony Rd. They were last seen alive on the evening of Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2017. Their bodies were discovered two days later. No official time of death has been released but sources close to the case have said it is believed the Shermans died late on Wednesday or early Thursday morning. Police are investigating the case as a targeted double homicide.

On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony, near Bayview Ave. and Hwy. 401''
On the Thursday morning at 9:45 a.m., a full day before the Sherman bodies were discovered, homeowners down the road from the Shermans answered a knock on their door. The Star has agreed not to identify the homeowners or their exact address. They live roughly 10 houses away on Old Colony, near Bayview Ave. and Hwy. 401.

The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners’ house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.''

Have LE released whether the call was made on a land line or a cell phone? Do you think that a cell phone jammer could have been responsible? Even if it wasn't it would be interesting to find out if residents in the general area had problems making/receiving cell phone calls on the Wednesday.