Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[Lexiintoronto]

Am I missing something? Why are we only getting “leaks” about HS?

That's what I don't understand- what about the condition of BS?

 

[ABro]

That's what I don't understand- what about the condition of BS?

It doesn't fit the double homicide narrative if BS has no visible injuries and his wife does.

 

[ilovepierre]

WOW ligature marks on their wrists but nothing on their wrists when found. They were bound on their wrists, hung and the ligatures then taken off. GEEZ Imagine what they went through.

Very interesting.
Looking more like a double homicide than a murder/suicide.
Kind of hard for a dead person to remove whatever was binding the wrists...

IMO

 

[neesaki]

Latest news from the Toronto star

Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, sources say
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

While it’s questionable that the sources cleared this release with LE I don’t think it’s such a bad thing. It just confirms what many already believe, that it was a double homicide. And a horrifically cruel one.

Has anyone here ever heard of the use of the jackets in this manner, as a means of restraining a murder victim? I’m going to stick my neck out and say that it seems like a professional hit, but whoever hired them wanted their deaths to be cruel . What horrible, evil people... All JMO.

 

[Gymqunhrh1]

Agreed

 

[Betty P]

While it’s questionable that the sources cleared this release with LE I don’t think it’s such a bad thing. It just confirms what many already believe, that it was a double homicide. And a horrifically cruel one.

Has anyone here ever heard of the use of the jackets in this manner, as a means of restraining a murder victim? I’m going to stick my neck out and say that it seems like a professional hit, but whoever hired them wanted their deaths to be cruel . What horrible, evil people... All JMO.

I originally thought it was suicide, too, but reading this report raises big red flags. The biggest is the marks showing their hands had been bound with rope or ties. Huge red flag. No one ties themselves up, then removes the ties before committing suicide.

ETA: Check out the thread here for Rebecca Zahau. Investigators in the Sherman case might want to see if there are more than 1 set of compression injuries to the throat. In RZ's case, there are two different sets of ligature marks, leading her attorneys to believe she was bound and strangled, then had a rope noose put around her neck as someone staged hanging her from a balcony. One set of ligature marks was more or less horizontal, as if she was choked from behind while sitting, the other set of marks is diagonal, from hanging at the end of the rope. Just a thought.

 

[MizStery]

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

:couch: Please read with an open mind then you can rip up my post.

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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]In the above 'linked article' I read sources leaked BS & HS wrists showed evidence" ,at one point , "bound together".[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]I thought about the awkward placement of 'at one point' in the sentence.Then I took time to re-read the statement without the oddly placed "at one point" . I kept in mind the authors narrative is to to 'damm the shoddy rush to judgment by LE'. OK,with that in mind the so called evidence leaked by the legal team is conclusive,"their wrists showed evidence of being bound together". That is really damming.Investigators slam dunk their 'evidence' not by 'proving' they were bound i.e. tie wraps.But they instead prove a negative ;muddling the water so to speak. BS & HS wrists 'had' to be bound together because there was no restraining binding at the CS (i.e.)tie wraps.It's all very smoky and vague.So now LE needs to prove the legal team is wrong on their 'leaked' bombshell that BS and HS had been bound at the wrist.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Finally I will make my point
[/FONT][/FONT]Instead of the very straight forward statement the legal team adds 'at one point'. That really is a get out of jail free card. Now it becomes just speculation by the legal investigators.There is no evidence all,it evaporates.Saying 'at some time 'literally is a tactic to try their spin their theory as fact. in the court of public opinion they have evidence that BS & HS prior to their deaths both were bound together at their wrists[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold].[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]But everyone will of course come to their own conclusion. Which is as it should be when you are giving a personal opinion.[/FONT][/FONT]
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[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]This is just my interpretation please feel free to critique![/FONT][/FONT]
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[Betty P]

The other "red flag" in this case is that the private investigators report states that the wife was still wearing the same clothes she was seen wearing 2 days before. That's very unusual.

Wit the Rebecca Zahau case I mentioned in my earlier comment (murder by strangulation staged to look like suicide by hanging) the clothes she wore the day before she was found were missing. These may seem like small details to some, but they're important.

 

[foxe]

Is the Barry Sherman thread still active? I am asking because the last post was on Jan 8. It is now Jan 21. Reports were released Friday by the family hired PI that the Sherman were murdered. It is all over the media. Am surprised this thread has gone "inactive" given the significant findings released 2 days ago.

 

[Betty P]

It doesn't fit the double homicide narrative if BS has no visible injuries and his wife does.

They may have been attacked and tied up at different times. Wife was attacked first, fought back, was tied up. Husband comes home and is confronted, shown his wife beaten and tied up with threats made to her life unless he cooperates. He cooperates to protect her. Lets them tie him up while he tries to figure out how to deal with the situation.

 

[ABro]

The wrist binding information is indeed the "bombshell." But people need to keep in mind that it's not coming directly from the pathologist. We have no idea how the pathologist contextualized it.

The Sherman team has a narrative they want promoted, but that narrative makes little sense. Contract killers don't run around committing multiple homicides with belts and fighting with 70-year-old women.

No matter what happened -- murder suicide or double homicide -- the circumstances are very strange.

 

[Tortoise]

Coincidence that Frank mag knew about the outdoor coats?

 

[Peace777]

PIs have not been inside the home nor on the property. TPS is holding the scene and nothing will be known until after TPS makes a statement or hands the property over to the family. Everything else is rumour. It cannot be substantiated folks.

I'm wondering why TPS (homicide) still has the house taped off and still there? IF this was a simple murder-suicide wouldn't they have closed up and left the scene by now? That's a long time to be at the scene JMO (maybe the house is being guarded?)

 

[AllyJane]

They may have been attacked and tied up at different times. Wife was attacked first, fought back, was tied up. Husband comes home and is confronted, shown his wife beaten and tied up with threats made to her life unless he cooperates. He cooperates to protect her. Lets them tie him up while he tries to figure out how to deal with the situation.

The article states that they both had signs of being bound at their hands. When confronted, some people fight for their life and some people are stunned. Not every one reacts the same and we don't know whether they were confronted by the killers together or separately.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Is the Barry Sherman thread still active? I am asking because the last post was on Jan 8. It is now Jan 21. Reports were released Friday by the family hired PI that the Sherman were murdered. It is all over the media. Am surprised this thread has gone "inactive" given the significant findings released 2 days ago.

You might have ventured onto the last thread scroll back on this thread.

 

[WINDSOR]

Questions

Working some scenarios over in my mind leads me to a few questions.

1) If this was a premeditated killing, with the intention to hang the victims, would not the hitmen bring their own ropes/belts/ligatures/straps to ensure they had the equipment they needed?

2) Do we know if the 'belts' mentioned were leather? Were they BS's own personal clothing accessories?

3) Leather clothing belts come in a wide variety of widths and strengths, would professionals rely on finding the appropriate belt in BS's closet?

4) Let us assume for a moment that the hitmen, brought their own straps, something like 'tie-down' or 'ratchet-straps' available at most home stores or auto supply stores. These are strong, can be cinched very tight and firmly and rarely work loose. Being made of nylon they can be tied easily into knots.

5) If the hitmen brought their own 'ties' initially they could have put the straps around the victim's wrists, then walked the victims to the pool room, removed the hand restraints and strangled the victims with the straps and left. Hence no restraints on the victims' hands, just signs of previous restraints.

6) Whoever did this was showing emotional involvement with the victims. (Hate, desire to punish, etcetera) No doubt that TPS
is aware of that.

 

[ABro]

I'm wondering why TPS (homicide) still has the house taped off and still there? IF this was a simple murder-suicide wouldn't they have closed up and left the scene by now? That's a long time to be at the scene JMO (maybe the house is being guarded?)

No one has ever claimed this was a "simple murder-suicide." The police theory was that it was a murder suicide even though the circumstances were exceedingly bizarre.

Among the new details released there is information that supports that murder suicide theory (only Honey seems to be injured) and that undermines the theory (according to the second pathologist's reports, as related by others, both Shermans appear to have marks that could indicate they were bound at the wrists).

What's also striking is that no one is denying the information from the original leaks. If anything, the original information is now corroborated.

 

[foxe]

Not necessarily to your point 6. If it was a contact killing, your only goal is to subdue the "targets" whichever way you can. The PI said there were "multiple" killers involved so all they needed was to flash a gun to get the couple to comply. I wonder if Barry owed money - his donations were practically down to nothing. He was constantly suing people even the people who had built his house. He even once said himself he was surprised he hadn't been the victim of a target killing as yet. Until the full story (perpetrators and motivations) is released, this is still a mystery case.

 

[Peace777]

No one has ever claimed this was a "simple murder-suicide." The police theory was that it was a murder suicide even though the circumstances were exceedingly bizarre.

Among the new details released there is information that supports that murder suicide theory (only Honey seems to be injured) and that undermines the theory (according to the second pathologist's reports, as related by others, both Shermans appear to have marks that could indicate they were bound at the wrists).

What's also striking is that no one is denying the information from the original leaks. If anything, the original information is now corroborated.

I always had a problem understanding why TPS put out in the media so quickly the murder-suicide theory. If BS killed his wife then himself what would be the motive?

 

[JDG]

Coincidence that Frank mag knew about the outdoor coats?

Probably the most honest account so far. No biases, no bylines. Media types can speak freely in Frank. No coincidence at all. IMO