Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[PaulR]

To the best of my knowledge, the only difference between generics and the original are the fillers - and you could just as easily be allergic to the fillers in the original medicine as well, in which case if you are stuck because there are no alternatives.

I'm glad that generics are available that save us money. Imagine if you had to buy only name-brand aspirin instead of the much cheaper store brand. I've never had a problem with generics, don't know anyone who has.

 

[ldlager]

Welcome to Ws Idlager!
You may be right about the house keys, wondering now if the car keys might be missing? imo.

The house keys and car keys could very well be on the same key ring. I know mine are

 

[dotr]

Speaking of keys..
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-someone-could-have-entered-shermans-home-lawyer

Could a killer of Apotex billionaire philanthropists Honey and Barry Sherman have obtained a key to their mansion through a realtor’s lock box stationed on one of the home’s doors?
Could the Shermans – Barry, 75, and Honey, 70 – have just simply opened the door of their home, which was up for sale, for a delivery person?

Or for somebody they knew?

“Original photographs of the exterior of the scene (showed) a real-estate lock box which are notoriously easy to open,” said Greenspan. “Open it, go to Canadian Tire and get the key made, return the key to the lock box and you have a key to the house.”

In other words, just because there may not have been any evidence showing somebody broke into the home – where the Shermans were found hanged – it does not rule out an intruder

“Did they simply open the door for the pizza delivery man?”

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

I think one thing is clear - the Shermans were not in the business of making pharmaceuticals to ensure the health and wellness of everyone. They were in the business to make as much money as possible by any means, and that's one way to make an awful lot of enemies. The private investigating team will be pulling cheques for the next decade as they run down every rabbit hole that represents a potential enemy, and as long as the family refuses to accept the murder-suicide scenario, they will pay others to find proof of what they want to hear.

Why would the family “accept” anything at this point in the investigation? It is early stages yet.

And, imo, it is NOT a case of the family “accepting” something at all. It is a case that they want a thorough and diligent investigation. Wouldn’t you if these were your family members?


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[otto]

Why would the family “accept” anything at this point in the investigation? It is early stages yet.

And, imo, it is NOT a case of the family “accepting” something at all. It is a case that they want a thorough and diligent investigation. Wouldn’t you if these were your family members?

I don't really have an interest in what the family thinks about the police investigation.

Two dead people were found hanging from belts on a railing in the basement of their home. Police have released some information about the circumstances. Until they release information clearly stating that the deaths were a homicide, I'll accept what we have heard from them.

 

[Jasper52]

I saw something that indicated BS/Apotex was named in the Paradise Papers. Is anyone able to search this?

 

[Veeduck]

My ranking of the relative probabilities:

politically motivated murder........................0%

religiously motivated murder.......................0%

professional hit by a business competitor...0%

murder by a psychotic stranger..................1%

murder by an interrupted burglar................2%

murder for inheritance................................4%

murder for hire by Winter(s).......................8%

murder-suicide by Barry............................10%

murder by an angry lover..........................75%

(JMO, based on the individuals involved and the highly personal MOD)

 

[Lilibet]

A little off topic but I can't stand guys like Barry Sherman. Generic drugs are never as good as the name brands that their recipe is stolen from. My daughter needs a certain allergy medicine and recently the pharmacist substituted a generic equivalent. Turns out that my daughter was allergic to the very medicine that was to be used in an allergy emergency. Bottom line is that now I have to pay extra for the name brand as the insurance company will only cover the generic substitute. So the insurance company gets richer, recipe thief Barry Sherman gets rich, and the rest of us have to live with second rate drugs.

BBM

OT: I’ve discovered that insurance companies allow for an appeal of their decision on what drugs they will cover, etc. You’d need to get the doctor involved advocating and follow the company’s appeal process. Perhaps you’ve tried this already, but I just thought I’d mention it. I take a common generic med that my Medicare part D (drug) insurance company has decided this year to place on a higher level “tier” which will cost me about five times what it used to. They’ve told me my doctor can appeal and they normally grant appeals. In other words, if they can get away with it they will, but if you appeal they give in.

 

[Snoop Sister]

BBM

OT: I’ve discovered that insurance companies allow for an appeal of their decision on what drugs they will cover, etc. You’d need to get the doctor involved advocating and follow the company’s appeal process. Perhaps you’ve tried this already, but I just thought I’d mention it. I take a common generic med that my Medicare part D (drug) insurance company has decided this year to place on a higher level “tier” which will cost me about five times what it used to. They’ve told me my doctor can appeal and they normally grant appeals. In other words, if they can get away with it they will, but if you appeal they give in.

Yes, in the past I appealed a medication for my son. It was approved on appeal.

 

[Veeduck]

I saw something that indicated BS/Apotex was named in the Paradise Papers. Is anyone able to search this?

I searched the Paradise Papers database at the CBC News website. I entered 'Barry Sherman' and 'Canada.' The results gave several Barrys, but no Sherman. A search of 'Honey Sherman' yielded nothing in Canada.

If you can give me a list of countries where he has investments, I'll search the database for each country.

 

[Tighthead]

Speaking of keys..
http://torontosun.com/news/local-news/warmington-someone-could-have-entered-shermans-home-lawyer

So Greenspan is now just throwing pure speculation out to the media?

That is no accident.

 

[andreww]

So Greenspan is now just throwing pure speculation out to the media?

That is no accident.

Told you so. IMO hiring Greenspan and the investigator is more about PR than it is about finding the answer. The family now has carte blanche to throw out whatever theories they choose. The public will always buy it because, lets face it, the public loves a good conspiracy theory.

The "no forced entry" is just part of what likely led LE to think this was murder/suicide. Cops have the benefit of knowing whose fingerprints were where, if Barry had defence wounds, if there was any sign of a struggle, cell phone records, timelines, etc., they don't just come to determinations based on the fact that there didn't appear to be forced entry.

What doesn't make sense to me is that if this was a murder, why the murderer would possibly take a key (and I assume all keys are accounted for) and lock the door after he left? Just doesn't make sense.

 

[dotr]

My ranking of the relative probabilities:

politically motivated murder........................0%

religiously motivated murder.......................0%

professional hit by a business competitor...0%

murder by a psychotic stranger..................1%

murder by an interrupted burglar................2%

murder for inheritance................................4%

murder for hire by Winter(s).......................8%

murder-suicide by Barry............................10%

murder by an angry lover..........................75%

(JMO, based on the individuals involved and the highly personal MOD)

Rbbm.
Interesting list, especially the last item.
Curious if you are thinking " angry lover " in terms of BS or HS and which gender might apply to each one ?
Unless the thinking pertains more to a former flame/ associate, of one of the Sherman offspring?
speculation, imo.

By the way, welcome to Ws Veeduck!

 

[zencompass]

Hi everyone. I am new to WS but have beenfollowing the case and all the WS postings carefully from the outset of thecase. Based on the amount of time LE has taken to search the house and toprocess the crime scene, I wonder if there is something missing fromthe house that should be there. Of note-it took LE a number of days toremove H's car for further examination (why, I don't know-leavingpossible forensic evidence to sit in freezing temps for days makes nosense to me, but I am no expert). My hunch/guess is that LE couldn't find HS'skeys in the house. They may have assumed that the keys were locked in the car,and only discovered they weren’t there after completing their forensic reviewof the vehicle elsewhere. NB- it was only in the days AFTER they finallytowed and examined the car that LE started their other "special"searches (sewer with magnetic equipment as was reported in MSM, houserooftop, metal detector of the lawn and neighbor's properties, trying tofind video from homes on streets 3-4 blocks from the Sherman’s house), etc. Ithink the keys are missing from the crime scene, and I think LE is looking forthem. Either an “outside” murderer (probably accidently) removed them from thescene; or BS disposed of them after murdering HS to create doubts that this infact was a murder suicide. All aneducated guess, and JMO.

Good morning Idlager,


:Welcome1:

Thank you for your thought-provoking post!

 

[dotr]

Fwiw, a German billionaire committed suicide ( in a horrible way, imo ) when his business suffered some losses.
Coincidentally, he too was in his seventies, had 4 children, also received a special award and had interests in the pharmaceutical trade.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...suicide-after-vw-losses-idUSTRE5055O820090106

Merckle, who was the world’s 94th-richest person in 2008 according to Forbes magazine, spent his life building a business conglomerate with about 100,000 employees.
The empire was poised to come crashing down after his family made wrong-way bets on skyrocketing Volkswagen shares.

The 74-year-old industrialist died when a train struck him late on Monday, said prosecutors in the southern German town of Ulm, near Merckle’s home.

He received the German Federal Cross of Merit in 2005 for his achievements in fostering economic growth in the state of Baden-Wuerttemberg.

“He had a reputation for being very, very prudent, very cautious -- a typical entrepreneur who always remained down-to-earth. So it was a huge surprise,” said an analyst who asked not to be named.

The losses fueled speculation that the industrialist could sell generic drug company Ratiopharm or part of his stake in HeidelbergCement -- both of which are based in Baden-Wuerttemberg.

rbbm.
ETA
Teva purchased the drug company after all. Seems there have been some problems with opioids..
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...w-branding-on-controversial-opioid-pills.html

TECs are popular among young people and casual users because its lower dosage of oxycodone means a more manageable high. For many people, these pills are their first taste of opioids.

The drug company has said it did not know about the marking’s popularity with illicit users until it was contacted by the Star with the results of its investigation. Teva said it is now consulting with police and “community stakeholders” to see just what kind of brand recognition TEC has on the streets.

 

[otto]

I saw something that indicated BS/Apotex was named in the Paradise Papers. Is anyone able to search this?

Do you mean the Panama Papers?

 

[otto]

So Greenspan is now just throwing pure speculation out to the media?

That is no accident.

There's a big difference between what is possible, and what is probable. If it's probable that someone broke into the realtor's lockbox to make a duplicate key, why isn't Greenspan suing the realtor and the lockbox company?

 

[Grey-St]

So Greenspan is now just throwing pure speculation out to the media?

That is no accident.

Likely not, it could be very strategic. But because TPS threw out pure speculation to the media, they likely feel they should, or have the right to, counter that in some way.

It is, what it is.

 

[pamelado2]

Told you so. IMO hiring Greenspan and the investigator is more about PR than it is about finding the answer. The family now has carte blanche to throw out whatever theories they choose. The public will always buy it because, lets face it, the public loves a good conspiracy theory.

The "no forced entry" is just part of what likely led LE to think this was murder/suicide. Cops have the benefit of knowing whose fingerprints were where, if Barry had defence wounds, if there was any sign of a struggle, cell phone records, timelines, etc., they don't just come to determinations based on the fact that there didn't appear to be forced entry.

What doesn't make sense to me is that if this was a murder, why the murderer would possibly take a key (and I assume all keys are accounted for) and lock the door after he left? Just doesn't make sense.

Yes more evidence than no forced entry, but many of the things you've noted take more than one day to discover. When was the murder-suicide theory floated by the 'source'?

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[Grey-St]

Told you so. IMO hiring Greenspan and the investigator is more about PR than it is about finding the answer. The family now has carte blanche to throw out whatever theories they choose. The public will always buy it because, lets face it, the public loves a good conspiracy theory.

The "no forced entry" is just part of what likely led LE to think this was murder/suicide. Cops have the benefit of knowing whose fingerprints were where, if Barry had defence wounds, if there was any sign of a struggle, cell phone records, timelines, etc., they don't just come to determinations based on the fact that there didn't appear to be forced entry.

What doesn't make sense to me is that if this was a murder, why the murderer would possibly take a key (and I assume all keys are accounted for) and lock the door after he left? Just doesn't make sense.

rbbm. I hear you, but when that theory was leaked, TPS likely did not have much if any of that evidence yet. It safe to assume that much of that was heavily base on the fact that there didn't appear to be forced entry. It was inappropriate that they came to the conclusions they did, and made the statements they did, based on so little information and so early on, and they likely know that now.

The same thing happened in the Tess Richey case. Immediately labeled an accident or death by "misadventure". Not even labeled suspicious. No crime scene secured. Two days later an autopsy concludes COD as neck compression and the case is labeled a homicide. I don't know how many times this needs to happen for TPS to understand it's inappropriate for them to release such preliminary statements.

I'm not saying that NOW a thorough investigation is not being done in the Richey or Sherman cases by skilled investigators, but it just makes them look bad.