Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[Tighthead]

No one said they couldn't speculate when arriving to a crime scene, it's just inappropriate to release speculation to the media so early on, or really, ever.

I would agree with that, noting this wasn’t an official statement.

Its interesting that the family reacted so negatively and are now paying someone to promote speculation on their behalf.

 

[human]

They are the beloved parents. Would anyone here want to beleve their father a murderer of their mother?

 

[pamelado2]

They are playing it close to the vest because the family, by way of the mayor, told them to play it close to the vest.

They did?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

 

[JDG]

They are playing it close to the vest because the family, by way of the mayor, told them to play it close to the vest.

Andreww, the police obligation is to find out as much evidence as possible and try to prosecute any crime that has happened. In All Cases.

The only people they will speak with is the family. It is up to the family what they wish to have disclosed to the media/public. There are privacy issues with all cases, that must be respected.

The police do not owe the public any answers unless there is a risk to the public. In the opinion of TPS, there never was a risk to the public.

It isn't a cover up. I bet they don't even have all of the forensics back yet. As for the family hiring a lawyer and ordering second autopsies, that is their prerogative. As for John Tory stepping in, he should not have IMO but he was a friend of the Shermans and runs in their circles. He cannot order the TPS to cover something up.

 

[Grey-St]

You can say what you want about that case but there is a big difference in how police will approach a case like this versus the case of a runaway prostitute that hasn't been heard from in a few days. There are literally hundreds of people that are missing right now across the city. Most, if not all, will eventually turn up. Just because someone is missing, it does not mean a crime has occurred, it usually doesn't. Police did a fantastic job of investigating that crime once they were aware that an actual crime had taken place. The Sherman family can do what they want if they don't like TPS findings, but to launch an investigation before police have even officially said one word just screams coverup IMO.

Kind of OT, maybe not, but I disagree with this sentiment.

Everything about how LB's missing person's case was handled, is so very wrong. Even if she was a runaway sex worker, there shouldn't be "a big difference" in how LE approach a case. But the fact is, she was not a runaway sex worker who hadn't been heard from in a few days, she was a murdered young woman. Hundreds of folks go missing every day and turn up, you're right, or make contact. And when they don't? For LB, days turned into weeks, weeks turned into months, and months turned into a year, until a man named Tim Bosma went missing and everything changed. Then a proper investigation was conducted. Then evidence collected. Then reasons to support that LB was dead and always had been, concluded.

Don't tell me for one second that is okay, expected, or acceptable.

 

[Grey-St]

So person who made that comment had absolutely zero knowledge of the crime scene?

I was talking about something being wholly speculative, like Greenspans comments about someone using the realtor box.

I'm not saying they did or didn't, I'm saying it was inappropriate to leak.

What I'm also saying, is that because an investigation had not commenced, it's equally speculative.

FWIW, I have always been on the fence on MOD.

 

[zencompass]

Here is an article concerning a lawsuit against the Toronto police by the parents of a young man who don't believe it was suicide - they believe it was murder.

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada...bungled-probe-family-alleges-in-12-5m-lawsuit

Excerpt from article :

"An Ottawa family who have been fighting for 15 years to have their son’s death investigated as a homicide have now launched a $12.5 million lawsuit against the Toronto police, alleging the force destroyed, concealed, replaced and ignored evidence from the scene of the death."

"Dr. John Connelly and his wife Gloria are also asking a judge to rule that Toronto police should have conducted a homicide investigation into their son John Connelly’s death on Dec. 9, 2001, and want the court to now order Toronto police to re-open the case as a homicide."

"According to the family, the Toronto police rushed to judgment in pronouncing their son’s death a suicide."

 

[zencompass]

The reason I posted the article (above post) is that I believe the Toronto Police Services have been ordered to stay silent until this investigation is over. By ordered, I mean from their highest branch.

Legal branch of the T.P.S. has undoubtedly underlined this order.

They do not want to be sued. (But then again - who does?)

 

[dotr]

If it was murder-suicide, what does everyone think would be the reason for it?
If murder-murder, why would they both be killed and who might have done it?

 

[zencompass]

Hi Dotr,

Great questions!

Initially, I couldn't understand why, if someone was to commit murder-suicide, would they "display" their bodies in such a horrible manner. My first thought was - what if one of their children discovered them? Double Murder to look like Murder-Suicide

Then I read about persons who could have felt enough "hate" and "revenge" to do this. Relatives? Business partners with strong ties to Sicilian mafia? Other business associates? Professional hit? Double Murder

Then I learned more about Barry Sherman's view on life - and realized that we never really know a person's mindset. There could have been a long fuse and it blew. This is a possibility. Murder-Suicide.

Posters were helpful to share the Stats of hanging in Canada. Then a poster showed Stats in Canada for seniors who have murder-suicided. Murder-Suicide

Then I have read so many articles concerning Teva and other companies who would despise Sherman and Apotex. Double Murder

Lobbying issues, strong arming politicians- there are many news stories - some from 2006 up until the current investigation and they are contentious! Double Murder

A professional hit paid by anyone who had enough money to hire the best to make it look inconclusive. Double Murder

Then the Order of Canada issue. Did the knowledge of receiving the Order of Canada, whilst knowing something untoward would soon turn up, motivate B.S. to carry this out to make it look like murder? Murder-Suicide



I have hopped back and forth over the fence so many times I am tired. Tired and even more perplexed!

Make room for me on that fence Grey-St. I'm staying on the fence.

 

[otto]

Hello Otto,

I don't think the police can either confirm nor deny any of this because it would be construed as "leaking". The T.P.S. does not want a lawsuit.

That's why I don't think we've heard anything at all.

This is just my opinion.

I also think that the independent autopsies, performed by the pathologist the children hired, likely revealed how their parents died and so did the post mortem examinations. We have only been made privy to the cause of death.

I certainly respect your unwavering view.

I keep "wavering".

I don't view police reporting on a crime scene, and communicating information about a murder, leaking. When there is a murder, and there was at least one murder in the Sherman deaths (based on what police have said), police have a responsibility to release that information to the public as soon as possible.

 

[zencompass]

From the start, I have believed that the post mortem examinations and the scene would have revealed what did happen, conclusively.

I usually don't jump all around but without more information, I am just sitting on the fence for awhile.

 

[zencompass]

I don't view police reporting on a crime scene, and communicating information about a murder, leaking. When there is a murder, and there was at least one murder in the Sherman deaths (based on what police have said), police have a responsibility to release that information to the public as soon as possible.

You are absolutely right, Otto. There was either one murder or two murders but there definitely was one murder.

The police did not directly make a statement of murder-suicide.

The Toronto Sun stated (Dec. 16th) that a "source" told them that the T.P.S. were viewing this as a murder-suicide.

We know nothing about this source and it doesn't lead to any police officer's name.

The "source" could have been mistaken, given wrong information and overheard part of a discussion. The "source" could be a reporter for the Sun. The "source" could be anyone. The "source" could have lied to the Toronto Sun, for all we know.

The "leak" came from the Toronto Sun - not the police. This has not been proven otherwise.

 

[zencompass]

If it was murder-suicide, what does everyone think would be the reason for it?
If murder-murder, why would they both be killed and who might have done it?

I genuinely want to hear other views on this. Thanks in advance,

 

[Tighthead]

I'm not saying they did or didn't, I'm saying it was inappropriate to leak.

What I'm also saying, is that because an investigation had not commenced, it's equally speculative.

FWIW, I have always been on the fence on MOD.

When precisely did the investigation commence?

 

[Grey-St]

Maybe, but what I am understanding is that there is a belief that on the basis of "no signs of a break-in", police foolishly announced how they were investigating the deaths as murder-suicide. Do we really believe that this is why police released information that they are investigating the deaths as a murder-suicide, or is it more likely that after police attended the scene, gathered evidence and information, and spoke to the coroner, they had enough information to draw some conclusions?

Except the leaked murder-suicide theory from a source came only a day after the bodies were found, and before an autopsy and thorough investigation ensued.

ETA: and as always, otto, the police never made an announcement, statement or release, that they were investigating this case as a murder-suicide.

 

[dotr]

Bringing forward the very first post from the first thread. This is the first news about the deaths that caught my eye.
rbbm.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?359504-Canada-Barry-75-amp-Honey-Sherman-70-found-dead-Toronto-15-Dec-2017-1&p=13816420#post13816420
https://www.cp24.com/news/pharma-gia...dead-1.3723714

Pharmaceutical giant Barry Sherman and his wife Honey Sherman were found dead in a home in Toronto’s York Mills neighbourhood on Friday afternoon, sources confirm.

Emergency crews responded to a 9-1-1 medical call at a house located at 50 Old Colony Road, which is in the area of Bayview Avenue and Highway 401.
Firefighters, officers and paramedics arrived on scene just before 12 p.m. and located two bodies inside.



Barry Sherman was the chairman of generic drug company Apotex Inc. He and his wife were well known Toronto philanthropists.

Canadian Business magazine recently listed Barry Sherman as the 15th richest person in Canada, with a net worth of $4.77 billion.



Speaking to reporters in front of the home, Const. David Hopkinson said the victims’ deaths are being treated as suspicious at this time.

“The circumstances of their deaths appear suspicious and we are treating it that way,” he said. “Our investigators are inside (the home) investigating and taking apart the scene.”

 

[Grey-St]

When precisely did the investigation commence?

Let's be honest here, they had likely only secured the crime scene and taken a look around. Enough of a look to decided there looked to be no forced entry. Then the next day a leaked murder-suicide theory? I don't called that a thorough investigation...yet.

 

[gregjrichards]

Do law enforcement have a duty to publicly report the findings of their investigation or if it is murder suicide can the make the findings a private matter?

 

[Tighthead]

Let's be honest here, they had likely only secured the crime scene and taken a look around. Enough of a look to decided there looked to be no forced entry. Then the next day a leaked murder-suicide theory? I don't called that a thorough investigation...yet.

I’m using your words. Commenced. No mention of thorough. Don’t shift the goalposts.

So your assertion is that a day after police police had secured the crime scene and been inside the premises the investigation had yet to start, and anything uttered by any police individual is wholly speculative with zero basis in fact.

Got it.