Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[JDG]

Pamela, you make a very good point. What if Barry really did kill Lou ? That death was the key that opened the door eventually for him to buy Empire. The boys' Mother died of leukemia, but to for Lou to die suddenly at age 41 is rather suspicious unless he had an existing heart condition, or the autopsy proved beyond a doubt that he had a heart defect, or that it was a real heart attack. What now makes me wonder is that Barry knew so much about pharamaceuticals, and experimental ones at that. Me might have even been able to make something in his lab that was untraceable, and would cause a heart attack. This sounds like something out of a murder mystery on tv, I know, but this whole case is so strange, I am just thinking it might have been possible. Maybe as crazy as it sounds, KW could really be on to something true. What a shameful family secret that would be for the Sherman family if it ever came out ! I just hope the medical authorities were really sure about Lou's cause death at the time. Even if it were true, I don't think it was the cause of his and Honey's murder, but if those who ordered the hit knew, it might have made them feel more justified. It also might explain KW's hate and rage. For him it is not all about money. IMO

Lou Winter died of an aneurysm. Very sudden, no warning and at 41, it was no doubt autopsied for COD

 

[JDG]

KW said when BS gave him money, he had to sign promissory notes.

Perhaps he is embellishing yet again?

 

[Lilibet]

Lou Winter died of an aneurysm. Very sudden, no warning and at 41, it was no doubt autopsied for COD

My husband’s aunt died suddenly of an aneurism in her early 40’s. No warning. Tragically, it happens.

 

[Tortoise]

The killer could have hidden in the shadows near to the top of the ramp, waited for Honey to step out of her car, crept up and put a belt around her neck, hit the garage opener in her car, forced her to walk down the ramp and closed the garage from inside the house.

 

[JDG]

Come on, BS took it all back.

Would anyone keep funding those who are now making accusations that one killed their father?

Why wouldn't one 'take back' that which was given to help them when they then turn on one?

Obviously, ones' generosity is of no avail at that point.

Had they said nothing, BS would probably still be supporting them in a rather generous manner.

Or until his recent death.

 

[Grey-St]

He did help them. More than they deserved. And what did they do? They accused him of killing their father! I don’t blame BS for being angry. I would have been too

I don't blame BS for being angry, either. I just think how he handled the whole situation with the cousins to be very strange.

 

[Tortoise]

Where is it stated that KW accused Barry of killing Lou?

 

[ldlager]

Didn't KW claim he was never at their house?...check out that video starting about 15:30 where he says he went there and Honey started asking him questions and he left....hmmmm

I think I recall that he was asked if he had ever been INSIDE their house, and he answered no. His conversation with HS could have been outside the house, or him standing on the front porch while she was inside the door. But who knows.

 

[hudunit]

I joined this forum to suggest another scenario.....What if Barry did order his wife killed and he was supposed to arrive later to find her.Maybe he did not expect the killer(s) to still be there when he returned home that night after her.

 

[Grey-St]

Why do you assume it was a trick? There are plenty of reasons to sell a company and things change in business. The company had been in an almost 10% per annum decline with the trustees. It’s quite possible (and likely IMO) that Barry made a reasonable business decision without the clause being a factor. That would also explain why he later helped them. If it were just a trick then he would have had no incentive to help them later. And if I helped someone and they turn around and accuse me of murder? Yeah I would absolutely consider any help nullnand void and seek return.

Frankly i am tired of this poor little orphan card. KW is responsible for his own actions and acts like an entitled brat. He created his own stress just like he is doing now.

He is also top on my suspect list for several reasons not the least of which is he appears to be a narcissistic sociopath. I suspect it wasn’t a straight hire but an agreement with some low life friend(s). His alibi isn’t really tight and almost seems too convenient. JMO

But BS also actively decided to not bring that clause forward to Apotex, which some folks simply find unkind to do to 4 children. His financial support later in life is also quite strange, imo. We can sympathize with what was done to 4 children at that time, and also be appalled with KW's behaviour at this point in time. The two can exist.

KW is also on my list of suspects until he can be actually cleared.

 

[ldlager]

Would anyone keep funding those who are now making accusations that one killed their father?

Why wouldn't one 'take back' that which was given to help them when they then turn on one?

Obviously, ones' generosity is of no avail at that point.

Had they said nothing, BS would probably still be supporting them in a rather generous manner.

Or until his recent death.

To me the fact that they did say something instead of keeping taking Barry’s “guaranteed” support money says that they truly believed in their position, and it caused them great anguish. It would have been much easier for them to just say nothing and have Barry’s ongoing support . IMO

 

[musicaljoke]

The killer(s): Someone who had the ability to get in the house, who apparently knew about their security cameras/system; who knew no one else would be present that night; who hated them enough to torture them; who apparently sought to kill both of them. To me, this seems like an inside job -- a family member, a staff member, or a close acquaintance. I don't see this as a big pharma hit. JMO.

Or was known to Honey and she let him/her in, and they had a conversation that went south during an opportunistic moment.

 

[PaulR]

I think reading at least the first two chapters of his book will explain why he gave money. It wasn’t because he cared about others. His overall philosophy is what, I believe, allowed him to avoid his contracted obligation to the Winters children. He does not believe in obligations.

“There is no objective basis to hold that anyone is obligated to do anything that is not required by law. Each person can be expected only to pursue personal happiness in whatever manner he sees best from his own perspective.

I see, so he gave money away not because he felt obligated to but because it made him happy.

 

[Researchnut]

That's true, but by 1974, it was no longer an option. There was not a continuous transfer of ownership from the original Empire Company to Apotex. So it's not a reasonable assumption that the children can claim 20% ownership of Apotex.

"In 1974, Sherman founded Apotex, which is in the business of manufacturing and selling generic pharmaceuticals. As sworn by Sherman – and as found by Justice Perell and confirmed by the Court of Appeal – Apotex did not own or use any of the assets, goodwill, property or business of the Empire Companies. The definition of “purchased business” in the asset sale agreement of the Empire Companies and the option agreement does not apply to Apotex. At paragraph 157 of his reasons, Justice Perell found that “Apotex cannot be interpreted to be the “Purchased Business” under the Option Agreement……The Plaintiffs’ interpretation is wishful thinking beyond fanciful.”

I suspect that if the Empire Co had been sold to someone other than Rich Uncle, there would never have been another word said about the 20% limited, qualified, contingent and conditional employment agreement and option agreement.

I disagree with the statement that this lawsuit would not have gone forward had it not been the "Rich Uncle". IMO if the Winter children had found out that anyone had not honoured thier parents wishes they would have gone after them too.

We know that this is "True"as stated in Winter v. Sherman, 2017 ONSC 5492 (CanLII)

[16] The Sherman & Ulster offer also included an option for the Winters children to be employed by the purchased business and to acquire 5% of the shares of the company if employed for two years.
[17] The option had four pre-conditions attached; the opportunity of employment and subsequent acquisition of shares would only arise if all four pre-conditions were met. If any one of the conditions was not fulfilled at the point in time when the children were to have the opportunity of employment or share acquisition, Sherman’s obligations were to be null and void.
[18] Royal Trust had wanted stronger option terms that would have inhibited Sherman’s ability to resell the purchased business or take the Empire Companies public. Sherman refused such terms. As Justice Perell put it at paragraph 123 of his reasons:
Sherman was only prepared to offer a limited, qualified, contingent and conditional employment agreement and option agreement. He was asked to be more expansive and generous, but he would not be moved….Royal Trust did not leave any money on the negotiating table by negligently drafting the Option Agreement or by not squeezing Dr. Sherman to ensure that his promise extended to employment and an interest in any and every generic drug business in which he might become involved in the future.

[19] The shares in the Empire Companies were owned by Sherman and Ulster Li

The case that I cannot find is the Court of Appeal, Justice Paul Perell, Winter v. Sherman..Can someone find this?

Quoted in this news article https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...ans-fortune-wishful-thinking-judge-rules.html and in the Sheman v. Winter document.

Quote from the news article- “As found by Justice (Paul) Perell and confirmed by the Court of Appeal, Apotex did not own or use any of the assets, goodwill, property of business of the Empire companies,” Hood wrote

^ This would mean that BS did not use ANY of the assets, goodwill, property of business of the Empire companies.

So how did BS fund the company APOTEX? It's ridiculous in my opinion. Did a forensic accountant go over BS's finacial statements prior to the purchace of Apotec.I'd personally appeal this too.Maybe someone can clarify?

Off topic. I was happy that the crimminoligist in the W5 episode stated the rarity of wealthy couples being strangled. What he did not mention is that the Shermans were the only couple ever found to date to have been strangled in a double murder useing belts as I stated before.Statisticly improbable.This is also true of a murder/suicide. NEVER happened before in the case of a wealthy couple.

ALL JMO

 

[AllyJane]

Whack is the "embellishment" IMO
Is that a common word for Canadians?
I also wonder was HS 'whacked"?
If so... well, draw your own conclusions!
MOO

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Whack is not a common Canadian term except for old time mobster movies.
He also said "Dirty deed" a lot and always had a smirk or little smile when he says it.

I am sure he will blab about his 4 hour police interview sooner rather than later. If he is the murderer then he is an idiot. If he isn't then he is an opportunist to get attention that will derail LE from finding the real murderer(s) IMO

 

[Grey-St]

Why would they be informed ? They were children at the time, minors with no say and with the sale of the company the agreement was moot. Their knowledge would not have changed the facts. JMO

That's exactly my point. I feel like the adults around the children at that time may have let them down. I understand that the "agreement was moot", but BS could have carried it forward to Apotex if he so chose. When BS's father sadly passed away, his uncle (Winter) took him under his wing. I think that more of how we expect family to treat each other. JMO.

 

[PaulR]

Not sure I can remember a case where a potential POI has shone such a light on themselves :thinking:

Susan Smith.

 

[BUF]

I think I recall that he was asked if he had ever been INSIDE their house, and he answered no. His conversation with HS could have been outside the house, or him standing on the front porch while she was inside the door. But who knows.

Asked by the Star if he had ever been to the Old Colony Rd. home where the Shermans were killed, he said he had not.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...000-the-week-before-they-were-found-dead.html

 

[PaulR]

To me the fact that they did say something instead of keeping taking Barry’s “guaranteed” support money says that they truly believed in their position, and it caused them great anguish. It would have been much easier for them to just say nothing and have Barry’s ongoing support . IMO

Not necessarily. Lawyer could have approached the Winter kids with the prospect of a billion dollar lawsuit on contingency which would give the law firm a huge chunk of that, 30-40%. It would have had to be based on contingency because there is no way the kids could have afforded such an expensive lawsuit.

I don't hear anything from KW about how it caused him any anguish at all to sue BS. Just listen to the vitriol, his accusations that BS asked him to murder HS (which polygraphs indicate are a lie.) That is not anguish, that is hate.

 

[Doghairrules]

If Barry had said to them, before financing their projects, there was this agreement that I would give you jobs/ share options and this is my offer to you to meet my past obligation, fair dos. Anything else seems shady. IMO.

I don’t disagree with you, but shouldn’t Royal Trust have had an obligation to inform the children of the agreement about the company and, indeed, serve the children’s best interest?