Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[Pamela_Brewer]

Gosh Grey St I am totally with you on all of the points you have made. These kids didn't stand a chance because they never knew the possibilities that lay before them early on. I really believe that there was no disclosure regarding the early plans that would eventually give them something to look and work toward.

Kerry, IMO, is blowing off steam that has built up over 15 years or more. Media is his only outlet at this time. I don't agree with it but I understand it. I do not think he was involved either, MOO. What I think is happening to him is that his fantasies about hurting them have come to fruition but not by his hand. He is tactless and boorish but I think his hurt is coming out now in a rush of emotion that is unable to control.

In my past line of work, Barry was the devil. I know he isn't the devil but he really pissed (can I say that?) hundreds if not thousands of people off. Honey seems to be innocent. So I just don't know what the hell happened and why? JMO

Kerry is 56.
Born in 1961.
Louis and Beverley Winter died 17 days apart in 1965.

I have to admit, BS's dad's death @ 41 and this couple is disturbing.
I wonder if there will be any additional investigation into their deaths.

IF KW thinks BS had any involvement in the death of his parents, why isn't he insisting to have them exhumed?
(Rather than saying BS wanted him to "whack" HS?)
As a child of parents that died too soon, they would be my priority.
I would have no comment about HS or BS period.
MOO


*http://marketwired.com/press-releas...erman-in-canadas-largest-lawsuits-1519397.htm

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[kiwi50]

Kerry Winter hates the Shermans so much that I don’t think he cares if he gets arrested. His hate and desire for revenge overrides everything else in his life.
Remember his fantasy was to decapitate Barry, watch his head roll down the road, and then just wait for the police to arrive.
I don’t think he will care if he gets arrested, as long as he can destroy the Shermans. He won’t even listen to his lawyer. He is loving this.

 

[Researchnut]

I had thought that someone had posted that Barry had sent an email from his home @ 8 :30 Wednesday night. He left Apotex according to the 5th Estate at 8:45..

Am I incorrect?

I found it interesting that there was a 2 hour and 45-minute difference in their arrival times on Wed, night. HS @ 6 pm and BS @ 8:45.

That is enough time for one person to have committed their murders.

I was so committed to the hired hit but I now also have to agree with Grey Sts theory. Great work Grey St.

An add-on: Wacked is a term used in Canada. It's street language meaning murdered which can also be attributed to a mob hit. We have a large number of organized gangs in Canada. In southern Ontario, many gangs operate in the same city at the same time. Apparently, Canada is a haven for mobsters because of our lenient laws.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

However, BS first tricked them out of their inheritance and then he doled out money when he felt it was right. When the cousins figured out what he had done and they sued him for the 5% each of the shares they were due .BS took anything good he had done and took everything back.This didn't just affect the W children,it also would have had an affect on the W kids,children . I personally would not have done it. He took thier homes.....

We also don't know what the W kids would have done with the money. They would not have to be dependant on BS's whim to get money that IMO should have gone to the W kid's in the first place. That would have taken some stress away from them.

All JMO

Why do you assume it was a trick? There are plenty of reasons to sell a company and things change in business. The company had been in an almost 10% per annum decline with the trustees. It’s quite possible (and likely IMO) that Barry made a reasonable business decision without the clause being a factor. That would also explain why he later helped them. If it were just a trick then he would have had no incentive to help them later. And if I helped someone and they turn around and accuse me of murder? Yeah I would absolutely consider any help nullnand void and seek return.

Frankly i am tired of this poor little orphan card. KW is responsible for his own actions and acts like an entitled brat. He created his own stress just like he is doing now.

He is also top on my suspect list for several reasons not the least of which is he appears to be a narcissistic sociopath. I suspect it wasn’t a straight hire but an agreement with some low life friend(s). His alibi isn’t really tight and almost seems too convenient. JMO

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

I had thought that someone had posted that Barry had sent an email from his home @ 8 :30 Wednesday night. He left Apotex according to the 5th Estate at 8:45..

Am I incorrect?

I found it interesting that there was a 2 hour and 45-minute difference in their arrival times on Wed, night. HS @ 6 pm and BS @ 8:45.

That is enough time for one person to have committed their murders.

I was so committed to the hired hit but I now also have to agree with Grey Sts theory. Great work Grey St.

An add-on: Wacked is a term used in Canada. It's street language meaning murdered which can also be attributed to a mob hit. We have a large number of organized gangs in Canada. In southern Ontario, many gangs operate in the same city at the same time. Apparently, Canada is a haven for mobsters because of our lenient laws.

Thanks for answering my whacked questions.

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[Pamela_Brewer]

Why do you assume it was a trick? There are plenty of reasons to sell a company and things change in business. The company had been in an almost 10% per annum decline with the trustees. It’s quite possible (and likely IMO) that Barry made a reasonable business decision without the clause being a factor. That would also explain why he later helped them. If it were just a trick then he would have had no incentive to help them later. And if I helped someone and they turn around and accuse me of murder? Yeah I would absolutely consider any help nullnand void and seek return.

Frankly i am tired of this poor little orphan card. KW is responsible for his own actions and acts like an entitled brat. He created his own stress just like he is doing now.

He is also top on my suspect list for several reasons not the least of which is he appears to be a narcissistic sociopath. I suspect it wasn’t a straight hire but an agreement with some low life friend(s). His alibi isn’t really tight and almost seems too convenient. JMO

If he had anything to do with "it" - HE DID IT himself.
I can't see anyone who loathes family members so much letting someone else or asking or paying anyone else to do "the deed".
He wanted to participate and watch them suffer.
MOO

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[Sherlockhemlock]

As soon as their parents died, either the executor of the estate of the mother (Royal Trust) and/or the Official Guardian should have been on top of this 'inheritance' IF it existed as reported.

The Winters went to court against RT and did not win. Im not sure of the details but it seems wrong to me, IF this was true.

Possibly, once he sold the firm, BS was indeed relieved of those clauses. Remember, in the eyes of the law, that which is MORAL isn't necessarily LEGAL. We can judge til the cows come home but it all hinges on LAW. Usually the law is very clear. I suspect, BS was not obligated to carry it forward. Just my opinion and best guess.

One of the articles posted mentions KW getting into drugs and serving some time as a teen. So he probably could not have worked for the company. Also it was the right to purchase which me and they would have had to come up with the money. JMO

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

Honestly, can we stop shaming them for developing drug addictions? Please try to understand the complexities involved, the trauma involved, with how and why folks develop drug addictions.

The fact remains that BS went against the wishes of their mother. The cousins were never informed that any such agreement exist. It's not about whether or not the cousins would have fulfilled the requirements to be hired, or be given the 5%.

Why would they be informed ? They were children at the time, minors with no say and with the sale of the company the agreement was moot. Their knowledge would not have changed the facts. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Thanks Quinnergirl, I really appreciate that. I guess what it really comes down to for me, is that they were kids. Not even just any kids, but kids going through a traumatic ordeal. They were children, having done nothing at that point in their life to be discriminated against. No drug addictions, no school dropouts, just simply children. Some folks keep focusing on who they became later in life, and how they wouldn't have qualified anyway, but this didn't happen later in life, this happened when they were only children. So for BS to make that decision then, I just can't understand I suppose.

On that note, I'm off to bed folks :seeya::heartbeat:.

I agree with you too, Grey. In fact I posted similarly on the last thread. I wondered what their future might have been if the Winters kids had known from an early age about the opportunity they had and if they had been mentored. It’s possible they would have had motivation to qualify to work in the company. It might have given them a focus and hope as they grew up. For me, the finer points of the contract that Barry weaseled out of are a moral, not a legal issue. He did a terrible thing to those defenseless children.

Yes, he threw money at them later, when they reconnected due to a chance encounter. But that’s not the same thing as respectfully honoring the spirit of the agreement from the beginning, and helping those kids to adulthood by at least letting their adoptive parents know the terms of the contract. By the time he started giving them money, it was too late to make it right.

Barry was clearly a nihilist, by his own admission in his book, and he looked out for Barry. Period. He did not have the children’s interests at heart. I don’t blame them for being upset initially. Yes, everyone, including the Winters boys needed to do things differently. Barry and Honey didn’t deserve to be murdered. But if you deliberately hurt enough people to achieve your own ends, it’s no surprise when it happens. The only question is “Which enemy got to them first?”
JMO

 

[PaulR]

Barry was clearly a nihilist, by his own admission in his book, and he looked out for Barry. Period.

That's not even close to being right, the Shermans donated tens of millions to charity.

 

[Breamworthy]

Yes like did anyone find out who mentioned "hog tied" here before the cousin blabbed that to daily mail?

Yes, this has been bothering me as well. I remember it well, because I commented on the use of "hog tied" but the thread was closed shortly thereafter. I am newish here and haven't figured out yet how to quote something from a previous thread. I did take a screenshot, but now find that I can't post that either. Pink Panther was the original member who used the phrase days before it appeared in the media. At the time it seems like they just misunderstood what "hog tied" meant, and thought it just meant the hands were tied behind the back, but now I am much more curious.

 

[Sherlockhemlock]

I simply think the honourable and kind thing to do would have been to carry over the agreement to Apotex. I really don't care what the court decided, or what he was legally allowed to do.

And I disagree. That the thing about “morals” is no one agrees what moral is. No objective standard.

Legally, The obligation ended with the original company. Ethically You don’t burden new shareholders with a highly contingent clause from a previous business. If anyone is in the wrong it’s RT for agreeing to something that would be difficult to enforce. I suspect the lawyers, accountants and trust discovered they were in over their heads and wanted to shed themselves if the albatross. JMO

 

[Lilibet]

That's not even close to being right, the Shermans donated tens of millions to charity.

I don’t think donating money defines a person. I’m going by what he wrote about himself and his actions.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nihilism

We can agree to disagree about Barry Sherman.

 

[PaulR]

I don’t think donating money defines a person. I’m going by what he wrote about himself and his actions.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nihilism

You said Barry looked out for Barry, implying that's the only person he looked out for. People who only care about themselves generally don't cut eight figure checks to charity.

 

[clearskies1]

The killer(s): Someone who had the ability to get in the house, who apparently knew about their security cameras/system; who knew no one else would be present that night; who hated them enough to torture them; who apparently sought to kill both of them. To me, this seems like an inside job -- a family member, a staff member, or a close acquaintance. I don't see this as a big pharma hit. JMO.

 

[human]

Barry had no obligation to give away money. Yet, he did. There are plenty of billionaires who keep the money for themselves. Multiple homes. Private jets. Designer clothes. Fabulous cars.

For example, when some NASCAR cars are done, they are bought for millions, I believe it is NASCAR. cars or is it Formula 500 cars that are kept in special garages and the cars kept there.

Or they have racehorses or professional teams. On and on. Instead, Barry gave money away.

 

[Peace777]

Apotex building must have security cams. Was HS or BS followed from there? Was someone lying in wait for them to leave there?
FD mentioned something along these lines to BS at some point about security issues in case someone was out to murder his "friend".... JMO

 

[Lilibet]

You said Barry looked out for Barry, implying that's the only person he looked out for. People who only care about themselves generally don't cut eight figure checks to charity.

I think reading at least the first two chapters of his book will explain why he gave money. It wasn’t because he cared about others. His overall philosophy is what, I believe, allowed him to avoid his contracted obligation to the Winters children. He does not believe in obligations.

“There is no objective basis to hold that anyone is obligated to do anything that is not required by law. Each person can be expected only to pursue personal happiness in whatever manner he sees best from his own perspective.

Power and wealth bring no obligation but they do bring opportunity.”

He believed that free will is an illusion and life has no meaning and purpose and that fulfilling the same basic instincts as other creatures brings happiness.

He went on to say that power and wealth give more opportunities to follow the instinct to help others and thus derive greater happiness by helping more people.

https://www.scribd.com/document/367757654/A-Legacy-Of-Thoughts-by-Bernard-C-Sherman

I have my opinion of Barry Sherman and how he handled his contracted promise to the Winters children, as I’ve previously stated. Giving away gobs of money doesn’t change my opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions about Barry and the Winters children, right or wrong. Mine happens to be based on what I view as fundamental human decency that IMO should have prevailed from their childhood on and might have led to a better result...certainly not resentment and anger over not receiving an opportunity in their father’s business that was promised. That promise could and should have transferred to Apotex, built with money from Empire. But JMO, MOO and let’s just agree to disagree.

 

[MizStery]

Thanks Quinnergirl, I really appreciate that. I guess what it really comes down to for me, is that they were kids. Not even just any kids, but kids going through a traumatic ordeal. They were children, having done nothing at that point in their life to be discriminated against. No drug addictions, no school dropouts, just simply children. Some folks keep focusing on who they became later in life, and how they wouldn't have qualified anyway, but this didn't happen later in life, this happened when they were only children. So for BS to make that decision then, I just can't understand I suppose.

On that note, I'm off to bed folks :seeya::heartbeat:.

I am going to add in my opinion,"it would have been the 'right' thing to do.Personally I think BS morally had a duty to go above and beyond to protect the boys from trecherous & disastrous perhaps even predatory business dealings. Yes it would have been beyond and above what is reasonable oversight in a courtroom but it was his duty to the orphaned heirs of his late aunt and uncle.

:cow:

 

[Veeduck]

This is from the Lockport Press version of Warmington's article about the aftermath of KW's police interview.

A friend of the Shermans said he will tell police that Winter was asked by Barry to go to the house more than a dozen years ago to look at the kitchen, which he was hoping to renovate.

Winter says this is not true. “I have never stepped foot inside of 50 Old Colony Road,” he insists.

BBM

The article isn't clear whether the friend knows that KW actually went inside the Sherman residence.

https://lockportpress.com/warmington-sherman-cousin-kerry-winter-speaks-with-toronto-police/