Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[PaulR]

This is exaclty my point. In order to purchase Empire in the first place, BS had to borrow money from his mother. It's highly suspect that he didn't use money from the sale of Empire to fund APOTEX. I'd love a week to go over his finacial statments between the sale of Empire and the purchase of APOTEX.

One of the main reasons that the Winter kids lost in court was that BS " did not own or use any of the assets, goodwill, property of business of the Empire companies" to fund APOTEX.

IMO no way and no how did he not use the proceeds of that sale.

I'm not sure how legally that matters.

OK, let's think about it this way: someone passes away and leaves two beneficiaries to a house. The house is sold and the proceeds are split in half.

One of the beneficiaries uses the money to start their own successful business. The other does not and turns to drugs. Does the drug-using relative have the right to go after the person who used the money to start a business? Does the drug-using relative have the right to sue the person who bought the house if it rises in price?

I'd say no, they received their cut when the house was sold.

In this case, the children should have received their part of the inheritance when Royal Trust received a check from the buyer of the business; remember revenues of Empire had declined by 20% while Royal Trust was running it. Likely because Royal Trust is a bank and they probably didn't know how to run a pharmaceutical company. That would have been $350K split among the kids, or about $2.5M today. I certainly did not get this kind of head start in life, maybe it is for the best.

That BS bought Empire really doesn't enter into it. Royal Trust may have done the best they could, trust companies are fine for certain things but it was the right call for them to sell the business instead of continue to watch revenues decline.

 

[human]

Yeah and the Johnson & Johnson kids had their own parents. Not the same situation at all.

What does having their own parents have to do with screwing up their lives?

 

[JDG]

Just bouncing off your post, a 'bleeding event' or 'brain bleed' (an aneurysm), can also be the result of taking too much blood thinner, such as Plavix. I know because my mother had one (not fatal but she was immediately taken off blood thinner). Not that I think Barry's uncle was murdered but it is an interesting thought given the relatively rare event of death at 41.

An aneurysm is a weakness in an artery wall. It can burst and be life threatening or it can sometimes be surgically repaired.

Aneurysms occur wherever there are arteries in the body. The most dangerous are in the brain and heart.

Having a 'bleed' of any sort from too much anticoagulant is a totally different issue. Plavix and other anti coagulants prevent the blood from clotting. If one takes too much or the therapeutic level is too high, a bleed can occur anywhere in the body i.e. as simple as bleeding gums, nose bleed or as dangerous as a brain bleed.

These are two very different medical issues.

LW died from the first example.

 

[Grey-St]

Why did they not stand a chance? They had parents that loved them at birth. I would think their parents left them some kind of money. The people who raised them were wealthy. They must have had all kinds of experiences. It sounds like some at least went to good schools and excelled.

They had the opportunity for education. Were they beaten or starved?

Yes, they suffered the trauma of death as did Barry when his father died.

The children needed counseling but to say they did not have a chance is stretching it. Oprah Winfrey did not have a chance, Look at her early life

People persevere differently, and are affected by trauma differently. From a child and adolescent developmental standpoint, I believe that the children were let down by the adults around them. It has nothing to do with wealth, and no I don't suspect they were beaten and starved.

 

[PaulR]

Sherman's dad died 8 years before Lou Winter, so 1957?
Which would have made BS
25?
I'm just trying to figure out how old BS was when his own dad, died, when his uncle died and when the nephew Dana died.

* not accusing him of killing anyone, I'm just curious as to a timeline there.
MOO


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BS was ten when his father Herbert passed: https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

He was 23 when Lou Winter died.

 

[Grey-St]

What access did he have to the orphans? The mother denied the family the ability to have the children.

There's no reason to assume he couldn't have maintained a relationship with the children. It sounds like he didn't bother. He even states in his deposition that he remains out of contact with numerous family members. I think it's part of his fundamental traits, and what he values and does not value. JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

Kerry Winter claims he was asked by Toronto Police the question on everybody’s mind.
Did you kill Honey and Barry Sherman?
“I laughed,” the 56-year-old first cousin of Barry Sherman told the Toronto Sun. “I said how could I have killed them when Barry killed her and took his life?”

Winter said he put it to him that not only is he not a legitimate suspect but there will not ever be a suspect be arrested.
“He just stared at me,” Winter said of Price. “I also told him that lead detective (Det. Sgt.) Susan Gomes is a very bad liar.”

It’s unclear if police plan to ask him to take a polygraph and answer their questions.
But what is clear is Kerry Winter walked out police headquarters under his own steam at 1 a.m. Friday morning.

http://torontosun.com/news/local-ne...s-chasing-phantom-murderers-in-sherman-deaths

 

[juli99]

Wow, I watched the episode last night, and have to say if they are looking for a prime suspect.... did KW not just offer himself up?

 

[JDG]

I'm not sure how legally that matters.

OK, let's think about it this way: someone passes away and leaves two beneficiaries to a house. The house is sold and the proceeds are split in half.

One of the beneficiaries uses the money to start their own successful business. The other does not and turns to drugs. Does the drug-using relative have the right to go after the person who used the money to start a business? Does the drug-using relative have the right to sue the person who bought the house if it rises in price?

I'd say no, they received their cut when the house was sold.

In this case, the children should have received their part of the inheritance when Royal Trust received a check from the buyer of the business; remember revenues of Empire had declined by 20% while Royal Trust was running it. Likely because Royal Trust is a bank and they probably didn't know how to run a pharmaceutical company. That would have been $350K split among the kids, or about $2.5M today. I certainly did not get this kind of head start in life, maybe it is for the best.

That BS bought Empire really doesn't enter into it. Royal Trust may have done the best they could, trust companies are fine for certain things but it was the right call for them to sell the business instead of continue to watch revenues decline.

And, in the Toronto Life article, IIRC, the Winter 'orphans' were said to have 'blown through' their inheritance.
That was in reference to whatever they received from the sale of Empire via RT.

 

[colette]

Not sure if the link has been posted but here is the Fifth Estate story on the murders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov7SCivAo5A

 

[human]

People persevere differently, and are affected by trauma differently. From a child and adolescent developmental standpoint, I believe that the children were let down by the adults around them. It has nothing to do with wealth, and no I don't suspect they were beaten and starved.

There is info called ACE’s. Adverse Childhood Experiences. I would cite it but I have people coming. It lists the different traumas that children face and the things that can happen because of ACE’s. Death of parents is on that list. I forget what else that may pertain.

The US is recognizing this and there are states that are taking measures to address this.

The kids needed counseling but it did not exist at the time, I am sure.

If we could have a film to rewind on KW’s life, we woild probably see what things affected him to make him the way he is.

At some point, people need to look at themsleves.

 

[Grey-St]

If the boys had been brought up by their bio parents they would have been part of their father's business and would have succeeded. Instead they were cheated out of a loving family and brought up by two people who did not love them and lanquished. For a kid to have to leave home at 15 yrs. old says it all. People on here who disagree, came from loving homes, do NOT understand. It's so easy to judge when you have not been in this situation.

I do not know to say with any amount of certainty that the adoptive parents were no good, but I do agree that a lot of what happened, is suspect. Having cold or unattached or uninvolved parents can have grave implications for the average child/adolescent, and these boys were adopted which comes with it's own slew of developmental and attachment issues. So, this is just what I know through personal and professional experience. JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

What does having their own parents have to do with screwing up their lives?

I'm not sure I've got the gist of this question but losing both parents at a young age could be devastating. The child won't understand death and will feel abandoned. Depending on their ages and personalities some might handle it better than the others.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

BS was ten when his father Herbert passed: https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

He was 23 when Lou Winter died.

Thank YOU so much!!



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[Grey-St]

How old were the children that he would have to inform at the time?

The adults involved with the children should have been advocating on behalf of them. That's how our world works, in theory, and legally.

 

[JDG]

What does having their own parents have to do with screwing up their lives?

IMO, not much. Many people lose parents to illness, accidents and divorce every year while in their childhood.

Many thousands are raised by step parents, adoptive parents or even in orphanages in some countries and they grow up to be active, exemplary citizens.

Some of course, do not but that is also true of children raised by their own parents.

Obviously, its best to be raised in a loving, caring home by people who love you. Life isn't always like that but most people fare quite well in adulthood, not matter who brings them up and under what circumstances.

 

[Researchnut]

How do you know they would have succeeded? They were given $15 million from BS to do what they wanted and I am not sure any are huge financial successes. I know people who left home at 16 with nothing and became very successful. And leaving home was the issue with the adoptive family who was wealthy. And there were 4 orphans that were adopted together. Not sure they all left at that age or we can honestly say they were unloved.

Statistics show that a second-generationbusiness has only a 53 percent chance ofsurviving 10 years, and a third-generationbusiness less than 32 percent,according to the Institute for FamilyOwnedBusiness. That means that nearlyhalf of all companies passed downfrom parent to child end up failing withina decade.

Given and lent are different words entirely. BS lent money to the Winter children when he felt like it and how do we know that the Winter children may have turned out if they had been allowed to purchace the 20% share.

We cannot know that the Winter children would not have been sucessful if given the chance. Thier interest would most likely be managed.I would not personally have to be beholden to BS in any way.

Parmaceutical companies here in Canada are funded partially by the taxpayers. It you are on welfare, disabled or poor you can get government /taxpayer funded drugs. Very different business model than the small familiy owned business.

Empire companies was failing only after Winter Sr. passed away. The children were aged 4 to 7 at that time.

Everyone needs to read those 2 court cases in entierty . They are very telling IMO.

Lets not forget that the Winter children also have children of thier own. BS's taking of the Winter children's assets would also affect them.Nasty,nasty,nasty IMO

As far as buying a jet or something to that affect with BS's money. You can hold money tax free in a not for profit.No taxes and you are still gaining interest. Would also further BS's agenda. I've done this ,but take a look at his non profit ,who he donated to,and who those non profits in turn donated to. It's very interesting. Quite the web of power and influence. Link to start you on https://chimp.net/charities/apotex-foundation

Everything here is JMO

 

[Grey-St]

Sounds like KW hates everyone. He needs to take accountability for his contribution to his current situation and past life choices. Yes he may have had some bumps along the way, but he seems to carry around bitterness and wears it like a badge. I thought forgiveness was part of the 12 step program but I am not 100% sure.

What you view as a blatant choice, I view as life circumstances. So many circumstances at play that lead to an array of issues. It's evidentiary in developmental research, and through adequate mental health care, understanding this can do wonders for folks to move forward in a positive way and learn from their past. I don't know if KW has received that adequate care.

 

[Grey-St]

And KW did not want justice. He wanted "revenge", that is his word from an interview: https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

I agree, but when that revenge is stripped down, it really is the desire for justice.

 

[Peace777]

I joined this forum to suggest another scenario.....What if Barry did order his wife killed and he was supposed to arrive later to find her.Maybe he did not expect the killer(s) to still be there when he returned home that night after her.

Not buying that scenario. Why kill the person who is hiring to have the wife killed? I've never heard of that happening in such cases. JMO