Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #6

[MizStery]

Asked by the Star if he had ever been to the Old Colony Rd. home where the Shermans were killed, he said he had not.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...000-the-week-before-they-were-found-dead.html

I believe they were likely killed on Wednesday night as well, but why is KW telling so many lies?

I agree with BUF that KW is not the person nor did he hire someone to brutally torture,bind,strangle,pose hanging in a ritualistic manner HS and BS. But I have been wrong too many times to say never.

I agree with everyone's comments KW is demented and despicable and his spewing hurtful rants about BS & HS sadistic murders is intolerable. That being said whether or not KWs taunting is because he certifiably insane or he is a compulsive lier I just want his caustic cruel comments to cease. I will watch the trial. I know the Sherman children's strength and resolve will be tested waiting for their parents killers to be brought to justice.That day cannot come too soon!


:cow:

 

[ldlager]

Asked by the Star if he had ever been to the Old Colony Rd. home where the Shermans were killed, he said he had not.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...000-the-week-before-they-were-found-dead.html

I know, he is all over the map

 

[BUF]

I agree with BUF that KW is not the person nor did he hire someone to brutally torture,bind,strangle,pose hanging in a ritualistic manner HS and BS. But I have been wrong too many times to say never.

I agree with everyone's comments KW is demented and despicable and his ranting and raving about BS & HS sadistic murders is intolerable. That being said whether or not KWs taunting is because he certifiably insane or he is a compulsive lier I want his caustic cruel comments to cease. I want the killers of BS and HS brought to justice. I will watch the trial and pray for the Sherman children this tragedy just breaks my heart.


:cow:

Ooops MizStery, I think you misinterpreted what I posted. I was responding to when he was questioned if he had ever been to the Sherman home, as he seemed to be not truthful in his interview. So sorry if I wasn't clearer on this. He seems to have different stories at different times.

...and yes, I agree with you that I want the Shermans killer(s) brought to justice...I am just not sure that KW wasn't involved with this.

 

[Sphinx]

I heard that her face was on the floor in the pool of blood but not sure if that caused all the scratches on her face. They did say she put up quite a fight but not sure the marks on her face were from the tile or a fight since they said she had scratches.

I am surprised that the killers did not get the upper hand right away. If that is the case, maybe it was 2 women trying to put a belt around her neck to strangle her. It could be the result of a beating too. I doubt that the assassins wanted to remain in the house for very long, so they may have forced her to phone Barry, and asked him to come home for some reason, as I have suggested before. I wonder if his phone shows a call coming from her ? I believe there was evidence of her leaving the meeting with the architect around 6 p.m. and then Barry leaving at approx. 8:45 p.m. I would like to know if the architect asked for the meeting at Apotex, or if the Shermans wanted a meeting, and asked that it be at Apotex. As far as I am concerned, the Architect should be investigated in depth, as well as the Housekeeper, and the Real Estate agent. I am sure LE will do that if they have not already.

Perhaps Honey was strangled, and her dead body left to lie on the floor by the pool, then hung later with Barry after he was also strangled. I imagine the doctors doing the autopsies could tell if they had been hung before or after death. If Barry were hung, and displayed after death, there would be no doubt that it was not a murder, suicide. I hope that eventually LE will reveal some detailed medical evidence, as well as other things they discover, but I imagine as long as the double homicide case remains open, they will not give out much information. That could go on for years.

I have mentioned before that death by hanging in Judaism is considered as a divine curse, and someone else posted that perhaps they were seen as traitors against Israel, after the Jewish Defense League protested outside their house in 2015, while a fundraiser for Trudeau was taking place. I also noticed that the bodies were discovered, and taken down on Fri. before the Jewish Sabbath began at Fri. on sundown, according to Jewish law, and customs. I am not sure if the killers were Jewish or not, but they might have been. People in the Jewish Community would know whether or not these things are really significant, and whether or not they were meant to be seen as signs and warnings. Is there anyone Jewish here on Websleuth who could comment ? I do not know enough about their religion to be certain. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

I posted this thought previously. These 2 KW statements are not mutually exclusive IMO. He could have spoken to HS at the Old Colony house without actually going inside the house. FWIW.

I can imagine that if that were the case, it would have been because HS wouldn't/didn't let him in.. and considering that at the time, BS was showering him with money, and HS was questioning him on it.. that wouldn't have gone over too well with either KW or BS, and I can't see KW not having mentioned the fact that HS wouldn't even allow him inside. jmo

 

[deugirtni]

It is interesting how people see the same picture and see different things. Your suggestion is possible too, but I hold to my opinion about seeing a bruise. I hope the police photographed KW's hands.

ALL MOO.

But when? Apparently they didn't even interview him until Feb 1st, which was 7 weeks after the event. Wouldn't it have been prudent to interview such a person as soon as possible? I mean, even if police had their thoughts as to what happened, and even if they didn't think KW was involved... with such a history there, it just would've made sense. P!$$es me off!

 

[Tortoise]

How did Fifth Estate know to make their program in advance of the police announcement? Would they have aired it if the police hadn't made their announcement?

 

[deugirtni]

I thought it was said earlier it looked like Honey was pushed down and her face hit the floor causing bleeding on her face. She probably was fighting them but that is not what killed her, IMO

I think it was said that HS had some kind of scratches to her face (although how some scratches could translate into a 'pool of blood' is confusing?), and that there was a pool of blood on the floor, but because there was no blood on her clothes, from a facial wound bleeding downwards to the floor, they surmised that her face had been on the floor bleeding, before she was hanged. jmo.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm really surprised there are so many here who think KW didn't do it.

I don't think I've read a justification for that thinking, except allusions to his lack of intelligence. I never thought it took intelligence to murder. Just a pair of gloves and a balaclava maybe. Mind, it would have got quite sweaty after a 3 hour wait, unless he was waiting outside in the bushes.

 

[deugirtni]

How did Fifth Estate know to make their program in advance of the police announcement? Would they have aired it if the police hadn't made their announcement?

Because LE still had the home taped off, and because they did a 're-enactment' of sorts, showing the same vehicle BS drove, showing an actor who looked like BS, showing the route, etc.. I figured they were doing it so that in the event someone may have seen his vehicle, with a person that looked like that driving, or in the car, it may have sparked a memory. There was said to be no forced entry... what if someone had been in the car with BS, as either a passenger or the driver, and got into the house along with him? Someone could have seen something... It just so happened that prior to airing the show, police said it was a double homicide.. and now we've got this highly questionable guy who hated these people with passion, on record trying to say that BS killed his wife. The chances of it being him seem so low just because it seems impossible that someone could be so stupid to go on record saying all of that stuff that he said, but who knows?

 

[minorone]

How did Fifth Estate know to make their program in advance of the police announcement? Would they have aired it if the police hadn't made their announcement?

KW contacted FE to advise them that BS had asked him to whack HS twice in the 1990s. KW wants them know that it is murder/suicide. It is confirmed in the Investigators with Diana Swain and confirmed in the Roy Green interview. The date that he contacted the FE is not given in the episode, but KW implies in the Roy Green interview that it was soon after the murders.

 

[kiwi50]

If the killer was a professional, wouldn’t it make more sense to kill Honey as soon as possible, why wait for what might be hours before Barry arrived, and risk something going wrong and leaving a live witness.
Keeping her alive until Barry got there, seems to make it more personal.

 

[AllyJane]

I am surprised that the killers did not get the upper hand right away. If that is the case, maybe it was 2 women trying to put a belt around her neck to strangle her. It could be the result of a beating too. I doubt that the assassins wanted to remain in the house for very long, so they may have forced her to phone Barry, and asked him to come home for some reason, as I have suggested before. I wonder if his phone shows a call coming from her ? I believe there was evidence of her leaving the meeting with the architect around 6 p.m. and then Barry leaving at approx. 8:45 p.m. I would like to know if the architect asked for the meeting at Apotex, or if the Shermans wanted a meeting, and asked that it be at Apotex. As far as I am concerned, the Architect should be investigated in depth, as well as the Housekeeper, and the Real Estate agent. I am sure LE will do that if they have not already.

Perhaps Honey was strangled, and her dead body left to lie on the floor by the pool, then hung later with Barry after he was also strangled. I imagine the doctors doing the autopsies could tell if they had been hung before or after death. If Barry were hung, and displayed after death, there would be no doubt that it was not a murder, suicide. I hope that eventually LE will reveal some detailed medical evidence, as well as other things they discover, but I imagine as long as the double homicide case remains open, they will not give out much information. That could go on for years.

I have mentioned before that death by hanging in Judaism is considered as a divine curse, and someone else posted that perhaps they were seen as traitors against Israel, after the Jewish Defense League protested outside their house in 2015, while a fundraiser for Trudeau was taking place. I also noticed that the bodies were discovered, and taken down on Fri. before the Jewish Sabbath began at Fri. on sundown, according to Jewish law, and customs. I am not sure if the killers were Jewish or not, but they might have been. People in the Jewish Community would know whether or not these things are really significant, and whether or not they were meant to be seen as signs and warnings. Is there anyone Jewish here on Websleuth who could comment ? I do not know enough about their religion to be certain. IMO

I am Jewish. I have never heard of hanging as a divine curse. But if so, it would only apply if you hanged yourself, not if someone killed you. HS and BS were big donors to the Jewish community - they had recently donated $50M to the United Jewish Appeal and built a Jewish Community Centre in Richmond Hill. There is no way anyone saw them as traitors to Israel. The JDL protest at BS's home was not against him but against the government's position towards Iran.

The bodies being discovered and taken away on a Friday is merely coincidence. I know that Canadian law for a criminal investigation will superced any religious requirements. For example, Jewish people who die must be buried with 24-48 hours (as long as not on the Sabbath). however in a criminal case where an autopsy is required. the LE can hold the body for as long as needed to complete the autopsy. While LE tries to respect the religious requirements for the victims, religious needs is secondary.

Suicide in the more conservative and orthodox Jewish communities is considered a sin and some Jewish cemetaries will have those who committed suicide buried on the peripheral of the cemetary rather than within the main areas of their synagogue. But that is not the case here. Murder by hanging brings no shame to the victims.

 

[Power of Two]

That brought to mind something from years ago. Years ago men with a long fingernail did so, so they were able to scoop up and snort cocaine.

Just an observation.

It is my understanding that a coke nail is usually the fifth fingernail (pinky) You can google the term 'coke nail' and discover more than you may need to know. My other thought is that the photo of this thumbnail is blurred and shadowed, as are the perimeters of the cuff of the shirt. There is not much fine definition in the photo at all. Perhaps it is just a nicely manicured nail, and the quality and style of the picture was deliberately misleading. Purely speculation on my part.

 

[Tortoise]

Because LE still had the home taped off, and because they did a 're-enactment' of sorts, showing the same vehicle BS drove, showing an actor who looked like BS, showing the route, etc.. I figured they were doing it so that in the event someone may have seen his vehicle, with a person that looked like that driving, or in the car, it may have sparked a memory. There was said to be no forced entry... what if someone had been in the car with BS, as either a passenger or the driver, and got into the house along with him? Someone could have seen something... It just so happened that prior to airing the show, police said it was a double homicide.. and now we've got this highly questionable guy who hated these people with passion, on record trying to say that BS killed his wife. The chances of it being him seem so low just because it seems impossible that someone could be so stupid to go on record saying all of that stuff that he said, but who knows?

But what I meant was why make a program if the police might announce it is murder suicide. Why would they reenact Barry and Honey driving home to murder suicide? They made the program before the announcement of double murder.

Perhaps they were working with Greenspan's help. But even then I don't know if they'd have aired a program that undermined what LE might have announced.

 

[Tortoise]

KW contacted FE to advise them that BS had asked him to whack HS twice in the 1990s. KW wants them know that it is murder/suicide. It is confirmed in the Investigators with Diana Swain and confirmed in the Roy Green interview. The date that he contacted the FE is not given in the episode, but KW implies in the Roy Green interview that it was soon after the murders.

I know KW's views but I think the purpose of the program was to discredit him and I'm not so sure they would have made the program about a murder suicide. It would be far too insensitive as regards the family for one thing.

 

[deugirtni]

If KW *did* do this, or cause it to be done, he has to be not too bright.. the timing alone..

"On Dec. 6, Justice Hood ordered a $300,000 cost award against cousins Kerry Winter, Paul Barkin, Jeffrey Barkin and Julia Winter (she was representing her late husband, Dana Winter, in the suit)."

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...000-the-week-before-they-were-found-dead.html

 

[human]

Re bruise on hand...this interview was done when? Bruise would be long gone. KW had the motive but not the wherewithal.

Bruises can last a long time. Why does he not have the wherewithal. He apparently had a good academic career.

 

[Tortoise]

If the killer was a professional, wouldn’t it make more sense to kill Honey as soon as possible, why wait for what might be hours before Barry arrived, and risk something going wrong and leaving a live witness.
Keeping her alive until Barry got there, seems to make it more personal.

I'm assuming the killer didn't know Barry would arrive 3 hours later and had to get back to keeping watch outside, to see where to take him by surprise. He could have parked out front and entered through the front door or driven straight into the garage.

 

[AllyJane]

If the killer was a professional, wouldn’t it make more sense to kill Honey as soon as possible, why wait for what might be hours before Barry arrived, and risk something going wrong and leaving a live witness.
Keeping her alive until Barry got there, seems to make it more personal.

Good point. LE never said it was professional (I think Greenspan said it was possible) but was targetted. It is also possible that the killers were hired but not at the professional level. The way HS is described at the murder scene seems to sound very personal which is why it sounds like someone who hated them both. And then KW steps up to the plate to say he hated them both.