Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

[Lexiintoronto]

No. Way down at the other end of the 'room'. There is some sort of enclosure, perhaps a glass pane wall. To the left side, there are one or two exits to the long corridor in the floor plan. You need to compare both to see that the hallway TO the pool area is at the opposite end to the hot tub. same side of the wall though. Left hand side of picture, opposite the 'plant' on a table.
Hope that helps.

Can you mark it on the floorplan?

 

[JDG]

I don't know how to do that, sorry.

Just look at the floor plan. The lap pool runs across the width of the house, at the back.

On the left hand side, there's a long corridor from the 'round part' of the basement to the lap pool. Where it looks like a backslash, is the door and there will be second door in all likely hood. (due to humidity)

That's where you enter, at the end of the corridor.

The lap pool and hot tub are on the 'other side' of the house....if you will.

You enter on the left and the hot tub, across from where the railings are, is on the right hand side of the drawing.

Hope that helps.

I need some computer classes to learn how to do this 'fancy stuff'. Seriously.

 

[renah]

Now I am wondering if the murder scene can actually even be termed "staged" in the sense that profilers use. I wonder if the hanging of the bodies at the pool were even intended to send any message, but more the final resolution of their killer's rage.

Honey comes home first, is attacked & restrained by at least one intruder. Whether she's back-handed or falls trying to get away (or tackled face down, etc), she sustains injuries that bleed. Maybe she is unconscious & the killer(s) leave her there while they wait for Barry to come home. (Thus the pool of blood but little on her shirt).

Barry arrives, the same sort of blitz attack occurs - this time without bleeding injuries - and he is strangled to death... maybe promptly, but also maybe made aware of his wife's condition, maybe also to listen to a hate-filled listing of the injustices the perpetrator holds against him. I suspect he was made to watch his wife die but that's just my hunch based on how upclose & ragefull this crime seems to me.

Finally both Shermans are gone, dead on the floor, strangled by something that was NOT the belts found at the scene.

Killer catches his breath, but his rage still has not been completely spent. He needs to do that one final act of stringing them up by the pool.

In his own mind I'm sure it had meaning. I'm just not sure that it was a message for any one else.

 

[deugirtni]

I think hanging the bodies facing the pool water would be difficult. Trying to wrangle the belts to the railing, with the dead weight of the bodies, could have chanced dropping them in the pool. (There was also a pool cover in place). I don't think the belts would be long enough for them to be attached to the railing first and then twist the bodies around to face the water. That would cause the belts to twist around the necks another 180 degrees.
When you think about it, the perp must have been quite strong to hoist their bodies (rears) off the floor while attaching the belts to the railing. That could suggest that more than one person was needed to accomplish this.

Picture of pool:
Sources reveal details of ‘suspicious’ deaths of Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife Honey

It appears that the railing was about one foot away from the pool's edge. The pool was a 'wading' pool, so likely the same depth all around, and too shallow in which to actually drown. I wonder if the murderer(s) knew that the pool wasn't a regular pool with a shallow and a deep end? I wonder if the plan was originally to bind their wrists, with their winter coats and boots still on, and then push them into the deep end to drown them? That would explain the use of B's belts, if in fact they were B's and not brought to the home by the perps. If they'd been drowned, LE would have to wonder if M/S, since H's face was 'scratched' up. I wonder if their ankles were also bound at some point?
If you were committing suicide, and the belt was obviously already around the neck and the railing, then why not kind of slide off the edge to actually 'hang'? Or conversely, if a murder, why not push the bodies off the edge? Why sitting there with BACKS to the pool? I would still be interested to know if the one wall (which B and H would have been 'facing'), was mirrored. It almost seems like the murderer(s) were trying to be 'funny' or something, posing them that way... ankles crossed, glasses on, 'sitting' by the pool together.

 

[ldlager]

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Bloomberg article from October 24th:


This Bloomberg article IIRC is the first MSM confirmation about security cameras in the home.


Made me think of this post:View attachment 155540

ETA: KW wrote ‘camera’ singular. And Bloomberg confirmed there was only one camera in the house.

I believe kw was referring to the camera that the killers used to film the murders. Not the security camera. But maybe he will clarify.

 

[JDG]

Is there a link to where it was filmed, please?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I believe kw was referring to the camera that the killers used to film the murders. Not the security camera. But maybe he will clarify.

Here’s his other post to put it in context:

 

[JDG]

Thanks Lexiintoronto.

 

[human]

I cannot see going to all of that trouble unless the crime was very personal. I think it took a lot of planning .

Why not simply knock them out and throw them into the pool?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I cannot see going to all of that trouble unless the crime was very personal. I think it took a lot of planning .

Why not simply knock them out and throw them into the pool?

Could be, the answer would be worth "up to" $10 million.

 

[dotr]

Maybe someone did not want the house to sell, especially at that inflated price?
Or someone did not want the home in Forest Hill they purchased and demolished to be built, especially one so grand? speculation, imo.rbbm

Shopping for a home? Ask if it was ever a murder scene | CBC News
"Sylvia Santarelli of ReMax Hallmark Realty says learning about a murder or suicide at a home might have an emotional impact on buyers. (CBC)
"They don't mind if there's a suicide. Murder is a different story especially now there's so many of them in the news," she said. "That will affect value in the sense of there might be less people bidding on the homes."
For particularly notorious murders, she says homes might stay on the market longer and might have to be demolished."

The house Honey and Barry Sherman would have built | The Star
"Honey and Barry Sherman’s new house would have been filled with light".
The property at 91 Old Forest Hill Rd. is desolate now, an empty 25,000-square-foot lot near Eglinton Ave. W. and Spadina Rd. where a house once stood. The plot of land was registered in Honey’s name in November 2016, and the old house had been demolished to make way for something new."

Estate agent finds owner's body hanging in wardrobe as he shows house to buyer | Daily Mail Online
rbbm.
"An estate agent was showing a would-be buyer round a house when he stumbled across the owner hanging dead inside a wardrobe."

"But the shocked agent and client made the gruesome discovery of the body hanging by a trouser belt as they examined the space in the master bedroom's fitted wardrobes.

The horrified viewer, who is in his forties, was so shocked that he fled the house and had to order a stiff brandy in a local pub to calm his nerves.

One regular said: "He was totally ashen, as if he had seen a ghost.

"He was shaking and asked for a stiff brandy. He could hardly put into words what he had seen, other than to say he and the agent were horrified."
"It goes without saying that it put him off buying the house."

 

[dotr]

News link regarding private investigators working with LE on a case.fwiw.rbbm.
Father of missing Vt. teen starts nonprofit to help families of missing people
Nov 13, 2018
"BURLINGTON, Vt. (WCAX) The father of Brianna Maitland, a Vermont teenager now missing for nearly 15 years, is starting a nonprofit organization to help families of missing people afford private investigators."

"Hall says investigators are working on active leads right now, though he could not elaborate on what those leads are. Maitland says private investigators have also turned up leads.

"They do a lot of work that relieves the police from doing a lot of that," he said. "So both my investigators do work with the police and there's a point where it has to be turned over the police."
"We would love to be able to commit time and resources to every one of our homicides or missing persons cases but we know that's not the case," Hall said."

 

[ldlager]

Is there a link to where it was filmed, please?

You’d have to ask mr winter, it’s his claim that it was filmed.

 

[ldlager]

You’d have to ask mr winter, it’s his claim that it was filmed.

Mr winter is unusually silent in recent weeks.......

 

[Lexiintoronto]

You’d have to ask mr winter, it’s his claim that it was filmed.

Can you link to where he said that? I frankly stopped reading/listening to KW at some point.

Mr winter is unusually silent in recent weeks.......

That might be in part to his litigation guardian. I’d be happy to hear if he is now receiving in-patient therapy for his alleged mental health problems.

 

[ldlager]

Can you link to where he said that? I frankly stopped reading/listening to KW at some point.


That might be in part to his litigation guardian. I’d be happy to hear if he is now receiving in-patient therapy for his alleged mental health problems.

See link attached to post #645

 

[WINDSOR]

Very strong public proponent of murder-suicide theory
Lost multi-million dollar legal suite to victim
Ordered to pay huge court costs, as a final insult, weeks prior to crime.
Raised in Jewish faith, familiar with the customs and traditions
Very close relationship with victims in past
Mental health problems

You can bet the TPS checked out KW very very carefully

 

[Lexiintoronto]

See link attached to post #645

I’m on mobile so the posts aren’t numbered. If you give me a date I might find it.

 

[JDG]

I believe kw was referring to the camera that the killers used to film the murders. Not the security camera. But maybe he will clarify.

I thought KW was referring to the security camera in the pool area.
Nowhere do I see anyone saying that the murders were filmed by the perps. in MSM or even rumoured.

Lexiintoronto, it was your own post to my request for a link.

 

[dotr]

I thought KW was referring to the security camera in the pool area.
Nowhere do I see anyone saying that the murders were filmed by the perps. in MSM or even rumoured.

Lexiintoronto, it was your own post to my request for a link.

rbbm.
Have come across a rumour that there was filming before or after murders on a site that likely is not allowed to be posted here a.d. speculation.
Missed this audio link from Bloomberg article.
The Unsolved Murder of a Mysterious Billionaire, Read Aloud