CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

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Something that I have been thinking more about lately is the staging of the bodies. Specifically the thought they were posed to imitate the statues. Lets suppose for a moment that is true (not saying I agree, but stay with me). If you have just murdered 2 people, I would think your priority is to get away before something happens and you are discovered. The longer you are in the home with 2 dead bodies, the higher the chance you will be discovered. But they took the time to drag the bodies to the pool, hang them, and...maybe...stage them to mimic the statues. What I cannot figure out, is why anyone...literally anyone...would do this? It only increases the risk of being caught and potentially adds evidence to the crime scene as they are spending more time touching and manipulating the bodies. Are there any thoughts as to why someone would do this?
Re getting caught, a couple of thoughts. First, If a lookout was involved the chances of getting caught by someone showing up at the house would be greatly reduced. But second, if the killers knew the Sherman’s schedule and appointments, they would likely know that no one was expected at the house that night, so they could take their time.
Regarding the staging, either 1) the killers were skilled enough to not leave any traces or evidence; 2) the killers believed the police would not be skilled enough to be able to collect and analyze any evidence that could be linked back to them (maybe they aren’t in any police database and they are not local so cannot be located and tested by the police; or 3) the police do in fact have DNA and other trace evidence that 5hey are either acting on, or can’t locate who it belongs to. MOO
 
Maybe I missed something. Do you have a link that the doorknob or lock was broken? Tia
KD: “…Greenspan pointed out a problem with one of the locks of the Sherman home, which one of my sources said was the front door lock. It had been spun, meaning someone had broken it with a screwdriver. Somehow, the police missed that…”
11:15 ‘Wrong Turns’ Wrong turns in the Sherman investigation

I googled it, but don’t quite understand it. I wondered if the TPS could have damaged the lock when they examined it. (I have no idea.)

The other oddity is that there was a realtor’s lock box on the front door. Was that left untouched?
 
Re getting caught, a couple of thoughts. First, If a lookout was involved the chances of getting caught by someone showing up at the house would be greatly reduced. But second, if the killers knew the Sherman’s schedule and appointments, they would likely know that no one was expected at the house that night, so they could take their time.
Regarding the staging, either 1) the killers were skilled enough to not leave any traces or evidence; 2) the killers believed the police would not be skilled enough to be able to collect and analyze any evidence that could be linked back to them (maybe they aren’t in any police database and they are not local so cannot be located and tested by the police; or 3) the police do in fact have DNA and other trace evidence that 5hey are either acting on, or can’t locate who it belongs to. MOO
Or maybe their DNA was all over the house already because they were regularly in it. MOO
 
Something that I have been thinking more about lately is the staging of the bodies. Specifically the thought they were posed to imitate the statues. Lets suppose for a moment that is true (not saying I agree, but stay with me). If you have just murdered 2 people, I would think your priority is to get away before something happens and you are discovered. The longer you are in the home with 2 dead bodies, the higher the chance you will be discovered. But they took the time to drag the bodies to the pool, hang them, and...maybe...stage them to mimic the statues. What I cannot figure out, is why anyone...literally anyone...would do this? It only increases the risk of being caught and potentially adds evidence to the crime scene as they are spending more time touching and manipulating the bodies. Are there any thoughts as to why someone would do this?

I get the dragging, because I think the hope was by putting them in the pool room it would possibly delay discovery. Any housekeepers or tradespeople coming Thursday would be less likely to discover the bodies, and just assume they were out. Leaving Honey’s phone in the bathroom was a slight mistake in this regard.
 
KD: “…Greenspan pointed out a problem with one of the locks of the Sherman home, which one of my sources said was the front door lock. It had been spun, meaning someone had broken it with a screwdriver. Somehow, the police missed that…”
11:15 ‘Wrong Turns’ Wrong turns in the Sherman investigation

I googled it, but don’t quite understand it. I wondered if the TPS could have damaged the lock when they examined it. (I have no idea.)

The other oddity is that there was a realtor’s lock box on the front door. Was that left untouched?
He is doing another chat today so those would be good questions to ask. I found the broken lock to be shocking. I wonder if the cops DID find it and just didn't say anything. It isn't right for them to tell the private investigators what they did or didn't find.

I know they initially said there was no forced entry but maybe they noticed it later on while the house was in their posession?
 
Something that I have been thinking more about lately is the staging of the bodies. Specifically the thought they were posed to imitate the statues. Lets suppose for a moment that is true (not saying I agree, but stay with me). If you have just murdered 2 people, I would think your priority is to get away before something happens and you are discovered. The longer you are in the home with 2 dead bodies, the higher the chance you will be discovered. But they took the time to drag the bodies to the pool, hang them, and...maybe...stage them to mimic the statues. What I cannot figure out, is why anyone...literally anyone...would do this? It only increases the risk of being caught and potentially adds evidence to the crime scene as they are spending more time touching and manipulating the bodies. Are there any thoughts as to why someone would do this?

It is after 8:00pm, as the killer(s) you are pretty confident you will not be disturbed by anything or anybody while you are in the house. You have instructions as part of the 'job' (which you are being paid very well for, I assume) to stage the bodies. So you do it.
 
It is after 8:00pm, as the killer(s) you are pretty confident you will not be disturbed by anything or anybody while you are in the house. You have instructions as part of the 'job' (which you are being paid very well for, I assume) to stage the bodies. So you do it.
And they had an escape route available out the basement door if someone did show up. I wonder if they even noticed Honey's phone on the floor si ce it was in the powder room. Barry's items were in a more obscure place and they probably were out of the house pretty quick after the killing and staging.
 
I suspect he means TPS didn’t miss it because it wasn’t there. Greenspan made it up to bolster his M/s case. No need for the killer (BS) to tamper with his own front door! At least that’s what I assume KW means
Agree TPS would have known about it, they were in the home for 6 weeks. The bodies were removed via this door, please tell me how all of those detectives and others missed it and then low and behold 6 weeks later the private investigators team find this and finger prints that they know 100% that TPS did not collect and infer they must be the perps.

It is also reported that this was not a 2 way street, the private team did not know what was collected by TPS so how can they say to the public that it was missed, they know LE is not in the habit of correcting a false narrative, that only leads to more questions and possible release of pertinent information.


Gomes said there are no signs of forced entry at access points of the home. She declined to discuss the evidence, possible motives or suspects.


IMO all hype for us readers, it is so easy to assume the front door damage happened by a trespasser long after the murders. Maybe that guy on Thursday did it? How everyone can just accept that TPS overlooked everything of importance is surprising to me, we know Canadian LE release minimal information regarding cases and suspects, we have very strong privacy laws in our Country and we are all innocent until proven guilty, thus our LE are not able to share most of the facts of any case. Facts released to public come from our courts, and as we have seen in this case not all facts are court approved for public consumption, we do not usually in Toronto, Ontario investigations anyway learn our facts from media/LE press conferences. IMO We get misled when we believe the media is always telling the complete truth and story and accept this as 100% fact.

I often wonder if the media reports on lack of TPS expertise in murder investigations, the suggested poor performance on this investigation and all the discussions about the first 6 weeks is a distraction.
 
I get the dragging, because I think the hope was by putting them in the pool room it would possibly delay discovery. Any housekeepers or tradespeople coming Thursday would be less likely to discover the bodies, and just assume they were out. Leaving Honey’s phone in the bathroom was a slight mistake in this regard.
Except they also left BS's gloves and papers right on the floor in plain sight too, which kind of defeats the purpose if it was to delay finding he bodies.
 
Re getting caught, a couple of thoughts. First, If a lookout was involved the chances of getting caught by someone showing up at the house would be greatly reduced. But second, if the killers knew the Sherman’s schedule and appointments, they would likely know that no one was expected at the house that night, so they could take their time.
Regarding the staging, either 1) the killers were skilled enough to not leave any traces or evidence; 2) the killers believed the police would not be skilled enough to be able to collect and analyze any evidence that could be linked back to them (maybe they aren’t in any police database and they are not local so cannot be located and tested by the police; or 3) the police do in fact have DNA and other trace evidence that 5hey are either acting on, or can’t locate who it belongs to. MOO
Fair enough, but this still leaves the biggest question...who would want the bodies staged, and why? It just seems so odd that it either points to motive or was intentionally done as a complete red herring.
 
I get the dragging, because I think the hope was by putting them in the pool room it would possibly delay discovery. Any housekeepers or tradespeople coming Thursday would be less likely to discover the bodies, and just assume they were out. Leaving Honey’s phone in the bathroom was a slight mistake in this regard.

I cannot get the thought out of my mind that HS phone was left in the upstairs powder room intentionally. The same with BS gloves and envelope with home inspection papers. We learn of items that were left out in the kitchen too, these few items stated to be found on the floor, I doubt that would be normal for the housekeeper? But she could have thought the mess was from showings?

The housekeeper had already started cleaning the main floor, did she pick up other items and we are not aware of those items?

The recurring questions in my head: why did the perp want to either hide the bodies? was it to delay when they are found (hmm odd as the house is for sale and has booked showings that would usually look through the entire home) or alter the time of death by placing them in the humid room with a pool that would emit chemicals in the water into the pool room? If the perp did that why leave the phones out on the floor, why leave the phones powered on (my assumption as they note both phones had missed calls and text messages - if the phone is off you will not have missed call notifications, you may get a voicemail if they left one)
 
Another piece of information I am not sure if accurate but it is in my head, HS asked BS to be home early that Wed night, they had something planned.

The night before - The Tuesday that she missed her meeting, dealing with something, we learned from the podcasts that HS had a team of people in to help de clutter the home and give items away to charity. Who were these people?

Leaves me with the impression the traction for the sale of the home was moving quicker than BS anticipated, they already had an offer, yet they had not de cluttered for the showings? I get the impression HS wanted to get out of this home as soon as possible. Curious why not wait until the new home is finished and then sell 50 Old Colony.

Totally different thought, another nagging detail is the home alarm system. How was it decommissioned? The housekeeper arrived and it was not on as she expected.

Did 50 Old Colony emit any alarms to the alarm monitoring company?
What time was the alarm touched on Wed evening?
Is there an alarm pad close to the underground garage?
Does BS need to enter his code when he enters from the garage?
Did either of them enter their code that Wed night?

We know LE know via neighbor video when HS & BS cars arrived home, was the alarm off before or after HS arrived home? -this would tell us was perp in home when HS arrived home or came in after, possibly on foot following BS in through the garage when he arrived home?

Lastly the Thursday visitor and the Wed night 911 call TPS follow up at a neighbors home, I am surprised that LE did not share more on these facts the public is aware of, if not critical to the case why did LE not tell the public that the Thursday visitor was in fact the alarm company or LE or the furnace guy again or .....

Same with the 911 call - why have LE not shared with the public that this investigation into that 911 call was related to or not related to the murders?
 
Sounds like someone thinks JS did it. ;)

Not sure he would have many finger prints all over the home, he did not live there and was away for weeks before the deaths when it was cleaned regularly by the housekeeper. The only prints belonging in the home I would think are from BS+HS and the service providers that are in the home on a regular schedule.
 
Another piece of information I am not sure if accurate but it is in my head, HS asked BS to be home early that Wed night, they had something planned.

The night before - The Tuesday that she missed her meeting, dealing with something, we learned from the podcasts that HS had a team of people in to help de clutter the home and give items away to charity. Who were these people?

Leaves me with the impression the traction for the sale of the home was moving quicker than BS anticipated, they already had an offer, yet they had not de cluttered for the showings? I get the impression HS wanted to get out of this home as soon as possible. Curious why not wait until the new home is finished and then sell 50 Old Colony.

Totally different thought, another nagging detail is the home alarm system. How was it decommissioned? The housekeeper arrived and it was not on as she expected.

Did 50 Old Colony emit any alarms to the alarm monitoring company?
What time was the alarm touched on Wed evening?
Is there an alarm pad close to the underground garage?
Does BS need to enter his code when he enters from the garage?
Did either of them enter their code that Wed night?

We know LE know via neighbor video when HS & BS cars arrived home, was the alarm off before or after HS arrived home? -this would tell us was perp in home when HS arrived home or came in after, possibly on foot following BS in through the garage when he arrived home?

Lastly the Thursday visitor and the Wed night 911 call TPS follow up at a neighbors home, I am surprised that LE did not share more on these facts the public is aware of, if not critical to the case why did LE not tell the public that the Thursday visitor was in fact the alarm company or LE or the furnace guy again or .....

Same with the 911 call - why have LE not shared with the public that this investigation into that 911 call was related to or not related to the murders?
replying to my own quote, I found a link advising the 911 call is not part of this case.


Not sure how they closed out and reported that anonymous 911 call and follow up? It sounds like they are sure if came from that neighbors home? if so why would KD think the Thursday visitor to the Sherman's was un marked LE checking on that 911 call? the above explanation explains LE felt this call came from the neighbor not the Sherman residence. **** we read from KD articles that LE checked out calls made from the Sherman landline to 911? Why if they already determined days prior that this anonymous 911 call case was closed.

My question is the report accurate that LE tested and dialed 911 from the land line wireless phone in the Sherman residence, why do that? you can check the phone records to see any land line calls made? My assumption was they were testing to see if the wireless land line handset signal would expand to the neighbors home area and be a mistaken location by 911 geographic location systems?
 
More great questions and answers today at the Star.

Someone asked about FDA. We know Barry missed FDA’s annual lunch that last Tuesday. (The architect meeting was scheduled at that time at one point, but then moved to Wednesday. Barry reportedly had lunch with his son-in-law BK instead on Tuesday.)

KD: “Hi Jim, nice to hear from you. Police have most, if not all, of the correspondence between Barry and many people, including Frank. You may recall that Barry was not liquid in the months leading up to the murders. He was asking some people for money back and he was telling Frank D'Angelo that Frank needed to restructure some things in the juice bottling plant Barry and he owned. Barry was telling Frank that Frank needed to get a better deal on Arizona Ice tea, so that Barry and Frank would boost income from the business. Frank has told me he did that. Now, the Sherman children did not like Frank and with Barry gone, Frank lost his supporter and is no longer in those businesses. Full disclosure, it was Frank who connected me with key people like Jack Kay, and it was with the help of people like Frank and Senator Linda Frum that I got to have interviews with key people in the Sherman lives.”

I didn’t ask the question, but had always wondered if Barry purposely missed that party with FDA and had called in Frank’s loans prior to the murders. It sounds like he was reigning him in by what KD said, imo.

FWIW. From the older, great Bloomberg article:

‘“They’re f---ing criminals, that’s what they are,” Frank D’Angelo said into his phone. He quickly hung up. “F---ing banks. Gangsters. And they say Italians are gangsters.”…

…D’Angelo said he was as confounded by the Shermans’ deaths as anyone else—and that he had nothing to do with them. “Frank D’Angelo?” he said, mimicking an investigator crossing off suspects. “The worst thing that could have happened to Frank D’Angelo is Barry dying.” Sherman, he said, was “my f---ing leprechaun, my four-leaf clover.” Price, the lead detective, interviewed D’Angelo earlier this year, and D’Angelo said the questions were “typical *advertiser censored*. I’m pretty sure he was trying to get a psychological profile about me and see if I had any reason to lie.” The detective, D’Angelo continued, “would ask the same question three or four times, moving around,” feigning surprise when his subject pointed out the repetitions. They included “the million-dollar question: ‘Who do you think did it?’ Well how the f--- do I know? You’re the cop.”
But like everyone in the Shermans’ orbit, he had his theories, which he expressed Godfather-style. “I think somebody came to make Barry an offer he couldn’t refuse, and he refused,” D’Angelo said, suggesting that someone wanted Sherman’s cooperation, his money, or both, and that Sherman wouldn’t yield. And “Honey had to die because somebody felt she would get in the way of the scratch.”’

Jack Kay from the same article:

‘Kay had been in New York to see Andrea Bocelli perform at the time the Shermans were killed. He was still stunned, reduced to open-ended speculation about what had happened. “I knew 99 percent of what Barry was engaged in, and none of it makes any sense,” he said. “What did they do, either Barry or Honey or together, that enraged someone to do what they did?” He wondered if there may have been “some commitment that he made that he didn’t live up to, because the person that he made the commitment to didn’t deliver on his side.” Perhaps, he continued, that person “might have made promises to someone else, and reacted in rage.”’

Jack Kay’s theory could fit a few people close to the case, imo.
 
FWIW—KD believes this image was taken around 10:30pm and it was from a camera mounted on a garage.

From what I understand, the NW suspect is on the north side of Bannatyne, close to Beaverhall (where the Shermans lived prior to Old Colony) facing traffic, walking in a s-e direction towards Leslie, according to the Star.

View attachment 415840View attachment 415841

Google map images. One possible route of NW suspect.

This is a current bus schedule for the Bannatyne bus. The last two westbound buses at Beaverhall & Bannatyne are at 10:08 & 10:35 pm. So the bus likely passed the person, facing them, unless they boarded it or changed direction, imo. Bus Route 115 Silver Hills Westbound
If they boarded the bus they’d change direction and would be travelling westbound, but the bus goes in a loop and would quickly return them going s-e towards Leslie again.

View attachment 415845


No idea if a bus was involved, I’m just throwing it out there because KD places the suspect on Bannatyne at the time of the last bus of the night on that route.

* please correct me if you think I have it wrong(!!)
The fastest and probably most discreet way in and out of the neighborhood would most likely be by walking along the railroad line at night. At the time of the NW video, the NW was walking towards that direction.
 
I cannot get the thought out of my mind that HS phone was left in the upstairs powder room intentionally. The same with BS gloves and envelope with home inspection papers. We learn of items that were left out in the kitchen too, these few items stated to be found on the floor, I doubt that would be normal for the housekeeper? But she could have thought the mess was from showings?

The housekeeper had already started cleaning the main floor, did she pick up other items and we are not aware of those items?

The recurring questions in my head: why did the perp want to either hide the bodies? was it to delay when they are found (hmm odd as the house is for sale and has booked showings that would usually look through the entire home) or alter the time of death by placing them in the humid room with a pool that would emit chemicals in the water into the pool room? If the perp did that why leave the phones out on the floor, why leave the phones powered on (my assumption as they note both phones had missed calls and text messages - if the phone is off you will not have missed call notifications, you may get a voicemail if they left one)
If a phone is off I have to believe that the phone company can still identify that a call was made to that phone
 
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