CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[Bobbi Pearl]

If a phone is off I have to believe that the phone company can still identify that a call was made to that phone

I believe so as well, but am not sure if it is all providers for all phone types. Sometimes if you call a phone that is out of a service area you get a recording and not the voicemail. However, I have had voicemails with no missed call notifications after a bat is dead and the phone is recharged. But I have also missed text messages when the bat was dead or was out of range so it may have some outlier reasons.

It could come down to the provider and if they want to store that type of data.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Interesting that one of the three closest male relatives to BS, appears to have fractured relationships with ALL of the three closest male non-relatives to BS, and then some. imo.

I have never heard anything reported from BK, other reports have said: BK and JS are very close friends, BK is a trustee, BK works for Sherfam and BK and AK are now divorced.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Earlier in the day, Honey had been at home for her personal training session with her good friend Denise Gold, followed by a three-hour massage given by a woman who provided regular massage therapy to Honey. While Honey was receiving training and massage upstairs that Wednesday, the house was buzzing with activity. One of the couple’s real estate agents, Elise Stern, was present, overseeing workers with the goal of polishing the house for upcoming showings. No viewings were booked by the time Honey left on Wednesday for the architects’ meeting. By the evening, when she arrived home, the workers and the agent were gone. Honey would have used a key to open the side door. Once inside, if she followed her normal routine, she would have left the door unlocked. Barry, if he parked in the driveway and not underground, would then come in the side door when he arrived home. The Sherman couple did not believe in having a security system. There was no alarm on the entrances and windows, and there were no security cameras. The previous weekend, Barry and Honey had had a Sunday dinner prior to attending a Toronto Maple Leafs hockey game with their good friends Leslie Gales and Keith Ray. Over their meal, at the Hot Stove Club at the Air Canada Centre (as it was then named), Gales recalls making what had become a frequent suggestion, telling Barry it would be wise for a man of his wealth to have a security system and perhaps even a driver or bodyguard. “We don’t believe in that stuff,” Barry said in reply. “If they are going to get you, they are going to get you.” Donovan, Kevin. The Billionaire Murders (pp. 296-297). Penguin Canada.

Now more than ever IMO the housekeeper needs to have a good memory of what she cleaned up on that Friday morning. The home should have been spotless when the perp arrived Wed night.

** Here we go again with conflicting reports, that no security cameras existed, yet reports of one in the pool area and they did not use a Security alarm system, yet the regular visitors said they had to use one when entering?

Who and what do we believe? Many times it is a combination of both. I believe they had alarms on main entrances only, not on the windows or skylights.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I believe so as well, but am not sure if it is all providers for all phone types. Sometimes if you call a phone that is out of a service area you get a recording and not the voicemail. However, I have had voicemails with no missed call notifications after a bat is dead and the phone is recharged. But I have also missed text messages when the bat was dead or was out of range so it may have some outlier reasons.

It could come down to the provider and if they want to store that type of data.

An interesting part of the Murdoch trial was the information they found when they analyzed the victims’ phones. They could tell when the orientation changed, portrait to landscape, and how fast that happened. So they could tell when and if the phone was dropped or picked up. They could also tell when the screen lit up and how may steps the person holding the phone took, as well as pinpointing the exact time.

So, just in theory: Honey arrives home and puts her wallet, phone and purchases down. By her phone data they can tell she picked up the phone at a specific time and went to the front door quickly and it was dropped close to the powder room by the front door. There may have been no further movement of the phone until the housekeeper picked it up and placed it on the bathroom vanity.

FWIW, If that happened at 8:00 pm when Barry was definitely at Apotex that would help rule him out as a suspect, imo.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I haven’t read through everything but there’s some new information from KD:

-the ‘Walking Man’ suspect is referred to as the KILLER in police documents (!!)

-there is some evidence the Shermans were being followed as far back as September, 2017. Notably that’s when the Winter/Barkin case was dismissed. Also in that month Jonathon and Adam transferred 1.5 million from their holding company to build a cottage they jointly own(ed). (Obviously many things happened during that month, but those are the only two things that come to mind at the moment.)

-KD believes the ‘decision to kill them was developed quickly, it was not planned.’

-his sources believe the minor cut on Honey’s face was caused by someone flicking their hand or an object at her

-he’s not aware of any blood found in the home other than the blood smear on the railing close to Honey

-KD thinks the WM/NW was a lookout who entered and left from the side basement door, and another person was at the scene

-his next appearance before the new judge will be in September

-the Sherman heirs apparently were not ever close to their Shechtman cousins. The same family rifts are present.

-he’s not aware of any blood found in the home other than the blood smear on the railing close to Honey

I wonder what evidence indicates HS was killed elsewhere in the home if no blood is found outside of the poolroom? do they have other "drag" marks on the floors?

if KD believes: the ‘decision to kill them was developed quickly, it was not planned

and he thinks the WM/NW was a lookout who entered and left from the side basement door, and another person was at the scene -

My questions are, 1. if no malice is planned, why approach the home in a stealth manner and 2. why bring a backup/lookout/coconspirator if you did not have a plan that needed more than one person to action?

another thought, I wonder why KD thinks 2 culprits, why would only 1 perp be caught on multiple cameras and the 2nd perp managed to not be noticed at all? Was that part of the plan too?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Out of the blue thought, why did detectives / evidence collectors search the drains out front of the Sherman home?

Did they see anything on the neighbor camera that would indicate someone threw something down the sewer?

Many of us assumed they were looking for the "twist ties" that bound the wrists, we have learned further that plastic ties were not what the coroner suggests was used to bind the hands behind their backs.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Out of the blue thought, why did detectives / evidence collectors search the drains out front of the Sherman home?

Did they see anything on the neighbor camera that would indicate someone threw something down the sewer?

Many of us assumed they were looking for the "twist ties" that bound the wrists, we have learned further that plastic ties were not what the coroner suggests was used to bind the hands behind their backs.

I’m not sure if it was in one of his recent podcasts or interviews, but KD confirmed they were looking for the ligatures that may have been thrown down the drain in the garage or flushed down the toilet.

ETA: I haven’t heard that zip ties or anything else has been ruled out as the thin ligatures, and we only know their wrists were bound at some point, not about the position their hands were in while restrained.

 

[dotr]

Out of the blue thought, why did detectives / evidence collectors search the drains out front of the Sherman home?

Did they see anything on the neighbor camera that would indicate someone threw something down the sewer?

Many of us assumed they were looking for the "twist ties" that bound the wrists, we have learned further that plastic ties were not what the coroner suggests was used to bind the hands behind their backs.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sherman-investigation-update-1.4464062

''A source with knowledge of the investigation says that the move was done 'out of an abundance of caution'​

''They used a hydro-excavator as "a large vacuum" and a magnet to locate any "suspicious metals," a source said. They then took the gathered contents to a work yard and combed through the material, looking for anything that could be considered as evidence.

The team plans to comb through more sewers near the Sherman's mansion on 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401 as soon as they can coordinate the operation with the city. ''

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sherman-investigation-update-1.4464062

View attachment 417081

View attachment 417082

''A source with knowledge of the investigation says that the move was done 'out of an abundance of caution'​

''They used a hydro-excavator as "a large vacuum" and a magnet to locate any "suspicious metals," a source said. They then took the gathered contents to a work yard and combed through the material, looking for anything that could be considered as evidence.

The team plans to comb through more sewers near the Sherman's mansion on 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401 as soon as they can coordinate the operation with the city. ''

thank you dotr! this article states they are looking for metal objects, using a magnet? not binding materials, interesting.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I’m not sure if it was in one of his recent podcasts or interviews, but KD confirmed they were looking for the ligatures that may have been thrown down the drain in the garage or flushed down the toilet.

ETA: I haven’t heard that zip ties or anything else has been ruled out as the thin ligatures, and we only know their wrists were bound at some point, not about the position their hands were in while restrained.

looking for the back up here, it may have been in one of the podcasts, they determined the wrists were bound with a soft material, not a hard plastic like a zip tie. I know it was in a data dump with more autopsy details

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sherman-investigation-update-1.4464062

View attachment 417081

View attachment 417082

''A source with knowledge of the investigation says that the move was done 'out of an abundance of caution'​

''They used a hydro-excavator as "a large vacuum" and a magnet to locate any "suspicious metals," a source said. They then took the gathered contents to a work yard and combed through the material, looking for anything that could be considered as evidence.

The team plans to comb through more sewers near the Sherman's mansion on 50 Old Colony Road, near Bayview and the 401 as soon as they can coordinate the operation with the city. ''

Also noting that sewer looks to be on the opposite side of the street, across from 50 not in front of the home. I see yellow crime scene tape on the left of the picture and a birdbath on the right.

 

[newclues]

-he’s not aware of any blood found in the home other than the blood smear on the railing close to Honey

I wonder what evidence indicates HS was killed elsewhere in the home if no blood is found outside of the poolroom? do they have other "drag" marks on the floors?

if KD believes: the ‘decision to kill them was developed quickly, it was not planned

and he thinks the WM/NW was a lookout who entered and left from the side basement door, and another person was at the scene -

My questions are, 1. if no malice is planned, why approach the home in a stealth manner and 2. why bring a backup/lookout/coconspirator if you did not have a plan that needed more than one person to action?

another thought, I wonder why KD thinks 2 culprits, why would only 1 perp be caught on multiple cameras and the 2nd perp managed to not be noticed at all? Was that part of the plan too?

How did the blood get onto the pool's railing on which the Shermans were hung from and whose blood was it since they were both dragged as dead into the pool room for staging by the killer? This has not been answered before.

 

[newclues]

looking for the back up here, it may have been in one of the podcasts, they determined the wrists were bound with a soft material, not a hard plastic like a zip tie. I know it was in a data dump with more autopsy details

I think that they at first said soft ligatures for the necks and hard ligatures for the wrists.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

thank you dotr! this article states they are looking for metal objects, using a magnet? not binding materials, interesting.

That’s a great article dotr posted, but more recently KD said the police were searching the floor drain in the garage and sewers for the ligatures not found at the scene. (I think that’s the reason the police gave so they secured the production order.)

I’m going to scan over the recent information and update the timeline and will note it when I find it. I remember it because I wondered about the garage floor drain, it was the first I had heard of it. And I looked at the police photos of the garage.

The police were initially using metal detectors around the property, so they were using every tool they had, imo.

 

[newclues]

Out of the blue thought, why did detectives / evidence collectors search the drains out front of the Sherman home?

Did they see anything on the neighbor camera that would indicate someone threw something down the sewer?

Many of us assumed they were looking for the "twist ties" that bound the wrists, we have learned further that plastic ties were not what the coroner suggests was used to bind the hands behind their backs.

Access to the storm sewer from the street would mostly pick up what was thrown in from there and most of this water goes to empty into some body of water. When something is flushed in a toilet it goes through a pipe along the walls of such a storm sewer sparately to the sewage plant where it must be treated before being released into some body of water. The basement drain can drain to either the toilet drain sometimes or storm sewer drain mostly.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

looking for the back up here, it may have been in one of the podcasts, they determined the wrists were bound with a soft material, not a hard plastic like a zip tie. I know it was in a data dump with more autopsy details

I think I may know what you’re thinking of. Was it the podcast interview with the Greenspan pathologist? He said the Shermans were killed with a ‘soft ligature, 2-3 cm wide’. I think in KD’s book he said the belts could have been used, but in more recent articles he said that a ligature thinner than the belts was used to kill them.

ETA: or are you thinking of the resistance bands their trainer sometimes used? (She said she hadn’t used them that day), and KD said in his recent podcast that the wrist markings were severe, more so on Barry’s wrists and they were made shortly before their deaths.

 

[dotr]

Re ligatures in idlager's post..

CANADA - Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

-KD also said he believes the killer or killers are local and the police are trying to obtain financial information linked to them in 5 foreign countries, some of which do not have a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty agreement with Canada. I never have even considered the possibility that the...

www.websleuths.com

ETA @ approx. 29:25

S2 The Billionaire Murders | E2 The Bodies

Podcast Episode · Suspicion: 40 Years Cold · S2 E2 · 40m

podcasts.apple.com

2019 rbbm.

Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder

The Star’s Kevin Donovan’s new book The Billionaire Murders looks at the intriguing lives and mysterious deaths of the Apotex founder and his wife. In the first of two exclusive excerpts, he reveals new details about the second autopsy that would change the direction of the police probe.

www.thestar.com

''During the dual autopsies, Chiasson also paid close attention to the wrists. When he began his examination of the bodies, he had noted that skin biopsies had been taken from the wrists, which Pickup had done to determine the age of the markings. It appeared they were fresh, but a laboratory test would narrow the time frame. The bodies had remained undiscovered for two days, however, which might skew the timeline. Chiasson consulted Pickup’s photos.'
Barry and Honey Sherman: The first 48 hours are crucial in a homicide. The police acted like they were in no rush
''From the abrasions that were present in the photographs, it looked, and Pickup agreed, like some sort of rope or plastic tie had bound the wrists. Checking the police photos of the death scene, Chiasson did not see any indication that there were ropes or ties near the bodies. Others in the room speculated that the Toronto police were searching the sewers to see if — and this seemed a fruitless task — ropes or ties had been flushed down a toilet and into the sewer system.''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Access to the storm sewer from the street would mostly pick up what was thrown in from there and most of this water goes to empty into some body of water. When something is flushed in a toilet it goes through a pipe along the walls of such a storm sewer sparately to the sewage plant where it must be treated before being released into some body of water. The basement drain can drain to either the toilet drain sometimes or storm sewer drain mostly.

I haven’t heard of it yet, but I’m guessing the police drained the pool as well at some point to search for evidence. Someone I knew who had a pool installed had to use a dedicated sewer for it to drain.

Maybe that played a role with the drain search? (No idea).

 

[ldlager]

CEO?

ja

 

[ldlager]

-he’s not aware of any blood found in the home other than the blood smear on the railing close to Honey

I wonder what evidence indicates HS was killed elsewhere in the home if no blood is found outside of the poolroom? do they have other "drag" marks on the floors?

if KD believes: the ‘decision to kill them was developed quickly, it was not planned

and he thinks the WM/NW was a lookout who entered and left from the side basement door, and another person was at the scene -

My questions are, 1. if no malice is planned, why approach the home in a stealth manner and 2. why bring a backup/lookout/coconspirator if you did not have a plan that needed more than one person to action?

another thought, I wonder why KD thinks 2 culprits, why would only 1 perp be caught on multiple cameras and the 2nd perp managed to not be noticed at all? Was that part of the plan too?

Bobbi Pearl, what makes you think the home was approached in a stealth manor. For all we know someone could have simply walked up to the front door and rang the bell...