CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

[Mistysues]

Look at your response I quoted in 494

 

[Mistysues]

If noone posts the document tonight, I will post it tomorrow when Im not on mobile.

 

[Woodland]

The test was supplemented by the new PCR technology - 'and PM PCR Amplification'. It was not a PCR test - it was an HLA test. That's why it's called an Amplitype HLA DQ Alpha test.

New thread for DNA please?? Didn't someone suggest that? <modsnip>
I'm out on DNA - I can't help the lack of comprehension.

 

[Woodland]

Anything on the red chips Dedpanman? Page 107 of RR? KR - 2 brief mentions at the beginning of the long and boring hair and fiber evidence section?

 

[Mistysues]

Woodland- Do you have the email from the RCMP ready to scan? Or anything to say that a PM test cannot be entered into the data base? A report? A study? A credible source, besides your own? You've been working on this since 2003 and your no closer to a solution, its possible you should take other peoples opinions and information and at least consider the data they are giving you. OR go start a forum where no body else can disagree with you.

 

[marikesh]

The test was supplemented by the new PCR technology - 'and PM PCR Amplification'. It was not a PCR test - it was an HLA test. That's why it's called an Amplitype HLA DQ Alpha test.

New thread for DNA please?? Didn't someone suggest that? <modsnip>

I'm out on DNA - I can't help the lack of comprehension.

<modsnip>
I'm interested in the DNA b/c I can't believe there is no DNA in the databank that can't be matched to another perp.

@ Mistysues:

I looked for the pdf and didn't quite find what you were talking about. Also Woodland did scan and post the letters from and to Police and the forensics lab, except it had to be removed. It was difficult reading when zoomed in b/c I could only get a half of the letter (vertical) which didn't make sense.

 

[Mistysues]

@ Mistysues

I looked for the pdf and didn't quite find what you were talking about.

<---- I'll post it tomorrow when Im on my laptop. My galaxy note won't let me post it.

 

[coco36]

Thanks for such a detailed thread. I have a question that could simply reflect how directionally challenged I can be.

I am having trouble reconciling Christine being picked up at home, cemetery or park with the Horwoods seeing the car coming east along Queensville Side Rd and turning north onto Leslie St. If the sighting really was Christine, why would the car be coming from that direction and driving up past her house again?

From #254

At approximately this same time - 4:00 pm or 4:05 pm, Ms. Horwood and her husband see a male person in a very dirty dark green or blue Buick near the Queensville feed mill. While waiting at an intersection (this is by the store), the Horwoods observe this Buick which was stopped at the intersection facing them. It has been traveling eastbound (so it&#8217;s facing east &#8211; facing the park on the other side of Leslie Street) on the Queensville Sideroad and was waiting for traffic to clear so that it could proceed northbound on Leslie Street.

Is the Horwood's sighting considered unreliable? Or have I confused the locations and directions?

Thanks.

 

[bessie]

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Thank you!

 

[orora]

Unfortunately this dna discussion will carry on til done now. The question of whether Woodland is really cognisant of some discrepancy in the dna testing procedures in regard to CJ or if it just exists in her own mind has to be brought to an end. As shown, this discussion has raged across several discussion boards already with no resolution in sight. Woodland claims to have discovered and preserved a dna profile of Christine Jessop's killer. It is not known to or available to anyone else but through Woodland.

Many articles hint at and or otherwise outright dispute Woodland's findings that the profile of CJ's killer is not comparable to the dna data base. It is therefore encumbant upon Woodland to either provide proof of or acknowledge lack of education, knowledge, or definitive fact to bring this to a close.

I don't dispute well meaning or intent but there comes a time when the amount of trouble caused warrants full disclosure on all sides. Do you really know what you are talking about Woodland or just think you do? Being adamant on a point is one thing if you are positive you are right, having the education and intellect to understand it and back it, and can show support from some reputable verifiable source. Its another story on the other hand if not. Look the time and trouble caused! We will gratefully acknowledge being wrong in questioning you when shown proof. We just seek truth.

The link to what missysue speaks of about Christine Jessop and David Milgaard is most illuminating.. This is not it but somewhat similar. PCR was discussed in 1996 in a manner relating to Christine that shows the RCMP were well aware the consequences and would only admit uniform pcr testing since.

http://www.justice.gov.sk.ca/milgaard/pubdocs/10022006/September%2028,%202006%20additions/230508.pdf

 

[marikesh]

Something I was mistaking as well was in thinking the tests were done in Canada. What I have finally straightened out in my mind ... the sample was too degraded to be tested by the method Canada labs were using. There was info thrown in that just clouded something that didn't need to be.

Per Mistysues:

Is the confusion because this says Canada did not convert until 1998? The test was done in the states not at the RCMP lab.

The tests were done in Boston, MA using the PCR/STR with enhancement to preserve the degraded sample. I am satisfied that the information on the DNA is in the database b/c the ultimate goal for all labs switching to PCR/STR was simpler, less time consuming, and the ability to share info across borders and solve more cold cases. This is my understanding.
It was my hope for little Christine and her family to have a chance at justice that kept me at this DNA.

Moderator Bessie left a link of professional persons who post here, and there is one person specializing in DNA, etc. Perhaps she/he may be helpful to solve this and put it to rest. What is the point of going on when there have been more unanswered questions raised than answered. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Woodland]

You do have the location and direction correct coco36 and that has been the question for sometime - was Christine in a car at that corner at that time?

The Horwood's did not testify that they saw Christine in the car, they said they saw a child struggling in a car.

Do you think it could have been Christine?

 

[Dedpanman]

I realize that everyone is now onto Suspect’s, and not to take away from Suspects. But I would like poster’s thoughts on this as they are pondering suspect’s:
Found on Christine’s corduroy pants, beside lint, hair, dirt, were small red plastic chips. What items back in 1983 were made of plastic, which was easily broken or easily chipped?
1) Toys?
2) Car paint?
3) Something in/from the perp’s vehicle? Trunk, backseat, back floor?

Dedpanman when you have the time could you please quote from Makin’s book, the description of these small red chips? And what was found on the corduroy pants? Thank you.

From page 107 of Redrum:
(this is not a direct quote - I'm paraphrasing)

Stephanie Nyznyk (Centre of Forensic Sciences) found a number of small reddish plastic chips which had adhered to either C's socks or underwear - Nyznyk couldn't tell which clothing item - because the chips had fallen off the garments. N sent them to the chemistry section of the lab where they were promptly lost and never seen again.

I file this under: "INTERESTING, BUT CAN'T DO ANYTHING WITH IT".

It could be meaningful, or mundane. C was wearing clothes she had worn to school the day she was abducted. A school is filled with fibres and debris of all sorts. Just go to an elementary school classroom on "arts and crafts" day and you'll see kids running around with glue, plasticine, and sparkles in their hair and on their clothes.

What's a little more lost evidence...?

 

[Dedpanman]

If we’re done debating DNA for a while (and I don’t think we’ve seen the last of it, but that’s okay), maybe we could return to discussing suspects?

I did the suspect profile for Mr. T… can we divide up the duties of consolidating info from RR and KR…? (Not all are mentioned in KR, by the way…)

There’s still (and these are pseudonyms from RR):

Philip Brennan

Al and Bill/Bob Mack (the brothers from Richmond Hill who sexually exploited K and C Jessop – and by the way – in Makin’s “List of Characters” at the beginning, the older brother is referred to as “Bob” Mack, but later in the book when these brothers are written about, the older brother is referred to as “Bill” Mack.)

“Uncle” Hector Drummond

Brad Foster

WPS – Woodland...?

Not telling anyone what to do, just offering some direction.

 

[Mistysues]

If noone posts the document tonight, I will post it tomorrow when Im not on mobile.

Top of Page 9.

 

[matou]

Woodlands Prime Suspect

Has this person been discussed in Makin's book or in the media at all? Who is it, without naming them?

 

[matou]

Thanks for such a detailed thread. I have a question that could simply reflect how directionally challenged I can be.

I am having trouble reconciling Christine being picked up at home, cemetery or park with the Horwoods seeing the car coming east along Queensville Side Rd and turning north onto Leslie St. If the sighting really was Christine, why would the car be coming from that direction and driving up past her house again?

From #254
Is the Horwood's sighting considered unreliable? Or have I confused the locations and directions?

Thanks.

I remember reading about this and a car driving north makes sense if CJ was in the car. The very dirty car makes sense to me too since I feel the perp drove around a lot in the country and dirt roads, and likely knew the back roads very well. So who had a car like that? Was it an older model Buick or a newer model for that time? No license plate info either, I guess. Was the only description "a man" or was there anything else e.g. moustache, glasses, baseball cap, etc.

 

[coco36]

I remember reading about this and a car driving north makes sense if CJ was in the car.

It makes sense the car would be driving north on Leslie say to Hwy 32, but it doesn't make sense where the car was coming from. The car was heading east TOWARD the store and park, and it turned north where it would pass her house and the cemetery. If it was CJ, then why would the perp drive a loop around and risk being seen again? If it was CJ, then where was she picked up and how did she get to that spot so quickly?

Unless it wasn't her, and it was another kid/parent or a couple of people horsing around. The timing is pretty coincidental, given the small window. Do we know when the Horwoods called it in? Was it before or after they knew CJ was missing? Too bad it wasn't acted upon more quickly.

 

[matou]

Where was CJ dropped off the school bus?

 

[matou]

The fact that CJ was found so many kilometers away is also unusual to me. It occurred with Tori Stafford as well. I've read that the body of a murder victim is usually found within a 10 mile radius of the initial contact site (or even less than that) . I will try to find a source for that statement.