CANADA Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #1

[Woodland]

My thinking on motive has evolved over time to rage as the main motive. He needed an event to focus on rather than the state of his own life. I'm not sure it even mattered if his victim was a child or not - someone to dominate and control may have been enough. Jmo.

 

[Dedpanman]

I don't think Ferris only worked from photographs - written reports would have been included for him. All or nothing, imo. It would appear that the Ontario pathologists did not mention insects in their reports - at least not that we have ever read. They were the ones that should have said 'no insect activity present.' To me it shows an ineptness - they were paid to be qualified to report on what should have been as well as what was. Ferris mentioning that tells me he was far more qualified.

The wind and birds eliminated all of the insects? Nah, imo. Ferris said there should have been hundreds - I think he was suggesting not all would still be present but some would be left at that point.

I have attempted to address the issue of the missing larval shells or “puparium” noted by John Ferris. It's interesting, Woodland, that you point out that all the other Ontario pathologists did not mention insects in their reports. This could be significant when making assumptions about the expertise of John Ferris. You took that to mean he was more qualified. But, you can flip that around and ask, why does one guy notice that when all the others didn't?

I don't think we can assume any of these specialists are infallible. I'd like to point out (to readers) that John Hillsdon Smith had conducted hundreds, if not thousands of autopsies yet he made colossal errors during the first autopsy of Christine. At the second autopsy, there were three experts in attendance (Dr. Clyde Snow, Dr. Jerry Melbye, and Dr. Hans Sepp, as well as two student pathologists – Guspier and Mullen). I think it's safe to assume that they had access to the same documents and photos from the crime scene that were given to Ferris for his examination. None of those specialists mentioned the issues of missing puparium (to my knowledge).

Woodland, you said, “Ferris mentioning that (the missing puparium) tells me he was far more qualified.” I'm not so sure...

Perhaps Ferris was not such an expert in entomology?
Let me try to make a case.

I've done some research on the life cycle of the blowfly and have discovered a few interesting things. I'm not sure that it proves what happened to the missing puparium, but it does raise the issue of Ferris's level of “qualification” or knowledge concerning the subject of maggot puparium.

What follows are direct quotes and their sources are noted.

“These puparia are often present at a crime scene, but not collected because no one is looking for them, or because no one is looking in the right place. They are usually found in the vicinity of the corpse, not actually on it. Folds in clothing are good places to look. They may also be found up to 30 feet away from a corpse, for example in the deep pile of some carpets or in folds in curtains etc. indoors. If puparia are present at a crime scene, it is very important to find them, because they are the oldest stage one can definitely link with the body.” From “Forensic Entomology” by Stephen W. Bullington, Ph.D., Consulting Entomologist.

“After more feeding, the third-stage maggots move away from the body and metamorphize into adult flies.” From an article published by the U.S. National Library of Medicine.

“One stage in the metamorphosis of the fly is the migration and pupation of larvae in the ground. Many of the maggots that migrated away from or beneath the body and burrowed a few inches into the ground to pupate, will "over winter" until the return of warm weather. They emerge from their puparia, dig to the surface of the ground, and begin a new cycle of reproducing, egg-laying (females), and dying over a period of weeks.”

and (in regards to the birds):

“In our studies birds have never been seen feeding on the human body, although they have been seen feeding on the maggots and carrion beetles.” Both quotes from “Time Since Death and Decomposition of the Human Body: Variable and Observations in Case and Experimental Field Studies” by Robert W. Mann, 1 M.A.; William M. Bass, 2 Ph.D.; and Lee Meadows, 2 B.A.

“Fully-fed maggots drop from the sheep and enter a wandering stage. This usually occurs at night in sheep camps. When ready to pupate they usually burrow only 1–4 cm into loose soil.” From “Sheep Blowflies” by Garry Levot - Principal Research Scientist, Animal Health Science, Elizabeth Macarthur Agricultural Institute, Menangle

“When the third stage is complete the pupa will leave the corpse and burrow into the ground, emerging as an adult 7 to 14 days later.” From Wikipedia article on “Calliphoridae” (Blowfly).

“Depending on temperature and the substrate upon which they are feeding, maggots usually complete development in 4 to 10 days. At the end of this period, larvae typically burrow in the upper centimeters of the soil and pupate for up to a week. Adult flies emerge from puparia and make their way to the soil surface.” From the University of North Carolina website (http://ipm.ncsu.edu/ag369/notes/blow_flies.html)

So, in conclusion, it seems that maggots, when they are ready to pupate, leave the corpse and sometimes travel as far away as 8 meters and burrow into the ground. This fact might seem contrary to our common sense – but there's the evidence above. When the fly hatches, the puparium is left behind in the ground, so if Ferris is looking at photographs, he's not going to see them there around the body or on the body.

If evidence-collection was pathetic and amateurish by Durham police (and it was) the puparium were missed because the officers involved had no training or knowledge in this regard. They probably didn't even know to look for puparium or take soil samples some distance from the body.

Police slid C's body onto a board – and they tried to take a few inches of soil with it. This was happening in late December and the ground was frozen, so it's unlikely they removed very much soil from the scene – and the soil they did take was in the wrong location to find puparium. That could be why the Ontario pathologists and forensic personnel didn't note them either. They just weren't there in the samples that Durham took from the scene.

Like I said, all of this proves nothing... but it does raise some significant issues. Does it not?

 

[Woodland]

I hear you Dedpanman - maybe all insect activity was missed.

 

[Woodland]

Of the many observations Ferris made here are two more from page 404 of RR that I found went with the lack of insect activity.

In his opinion there was no evidence the remains had been ravaged by small animals. Nor were the bones scattered about the site as would be expected if they had been there for quite some time.

Ferris noted there was decomposition fluid stains visible over much of Christine's bunched clothing. Given that her body was found naked, the stains suggested that Christine must have been clothed for a substantial period immediately following her death.

I like the overall package Ferris delivered. An updated version of this case with improved knowledge in this area would be the best thing that could happen, imo.

 

[Dedpanman]

In his opinion there was no evidence the remains had been ravaged by small animals. Nor were the bones scattered about the site as would be expected if they had been there for quite some time.

Yes, but Ferris wasn't at either of the two autopsies, he was working from documents and photographs. Were the Ontario pathologists (the people who were able to pick up the bones and really examine them) in agreement with Ferris's findings? I don't remember Makin dealing with that in RR - he focused on the injuries that the Ontario pathologists observed. If they saw evidence of animal activity it wasn't noted by Makin in his book.

Ferris noted there was decomposition fluid stains visible over much of Christine's bunched clothing. Given that her body was found naked, the stains suggested that Christine must have been clothed for a substantial period immediately following her death.

Her head was wrapped up in at least one sweater - maybe two(?) - so we would expect decomposition fluid stains on them. Is it possible that other articles of clothing ended up on the body, or next to the body for some time during decomposition - absorbing those fluids - and were then moved by animals?

I like the overall package Ferris delivered. An updated version of this case with improved knowledge in this area would be the best thing that could happen, imo.

Yes, I wish a highly trained, highly experienced cold-case team could tackle this case again from scratch. Start again and allow them to reach their own conclusions - and see where it takes them. Tweedy was standing on the shoulders of all the people who had worked this case years before - and most of that work was filled with errors. I think about all the money that our governments waste on such stupid and needless things...

Imagine funnelling some money back into this case to start over and do it right.

 

[Chorley8]

My thinking on motive has evolved over time to rage as the main motive. He needed an event to focus on rather than the state of his own life. I'm not sure it even mattered if his victim was a child or not - someone to dominate and control may have been enough. Jmo.

I wonder if the small holes in the underwear were made with a different object than the knife injuries. Also was it just one knife or different implements?

You posters know far more than me about this case though I may well try to catch up if I can get time. But it does seem that there is a clear sexual component though probably not rape per se in other words the perp may have been impotent or only been able to satisfy sexual urges separately. Possible this attempt to get into the body in such a strange way is an attempt to compensate in an extreme manner.

It seems like slow bizarre careful if inexpert exploration of the body to me not rage. I am assuming this took place over hours at least (?).

I know about the illicit activity with her brother and friends. I know he is cleared but is there any way this is linked in even a psychological way I mean that Christine gave off a vulnerable air that attracted someone or if someone knew about the other activity. It does seem like lightning hitting twice on poor Christine not sure how likely this would be.

When I read about these extreme injuries I think there is some chance that this was someone passing through, trolling, and they just got lucky if we can use that word. Otherwise surely something else would have come to the fore in the community this is just so extreme, the violence. People can drive around for days indeed months until just the right situation presents itself.

I had two female friends in high school who told me oddly similar stories. A man stops beside them in a car and says get in. They do. One just drove her around in his sports car and let her out almost without talking the other actually took her to a motel (I guess you can call it willingly) and tried to have sex with her but he was unable.

They both had no real explanation as to why they got in the car it was strange to them even years later. So it is not impossible a child would just follow a simple command, even stop at a store for candy. Let alone if there was a threat or a ruse of some kind.

 

[bodhi93]

...
When I read about these extreme injuries I think there is some chance that this was someone passing through, trolling, and they just got lucky if we can use that word. Otherwise surely something else would have come to the fore in the community this is just so extreme, the violence. People can drive around for days indeed months until just the right situation presents itself.
...

They both had no real explanation as to why they got in the car it was strange to them even years later. So it is not impossible a child would just follow a simple command, even stop at a store for candy. Let alone if there was a threat or a ruse of some kind.

I too wondered if it was someone passing through. My thoughts were the following (all just speculation):
- maybe CJ was on her way to the store, skipping and playing her recorder (no bike because she couldn't play the recorder then)
- this guy was in his vehicle with the windows down (being a warmer afternoon) and all he can hear is the irritating noise from this recorded being played by this obnoxious little girl skipping along (his perception) and he snaps
- he gets her in his vehicle (possibly even with the promise to drive her to the store so she could get to her friend faster)
- smacks her so hard on the face that she falls unconscious
- possibly drives out of town a way (or maybe just into the cemetery he knows about)
- something about the whole thing gets him excited and he takes CJ's clothes off and sexually assaults her
- as she is being re-dressed she comes around from being knocked unconscious, he freaks and stabs her
- he now has to find a place to put her (either he knows of this place in Sunderland or he drives around to find something... I'm leaning towards the former)
- on the way there she bleeds out (primary crime scene - vehicle)
- he gets to the site, places/poses her in the location she is found (maybe he gets a little curious about the body and starts to poke and prod around)
- then he places the recorder down (not dropping it randomly) this is what triggered the events

Again this is all just speculation...

 

[Woodland]

For clarification on your scenario bodhi93 -

This was on Leslie Street? Unfortunately no one reported seeing Christine travel from her home - walking or otherwise. After she was reported missing, a handful of people reported seeing her in close proximity to the store, but different scenarios altogether. No one reported seeing her talking to someone in a vehicle or get into a vehicle.

Did Christine get out of the vehicle and go into the store as reported? This was suggested once before - a guy that did what he did to Christine, got her in his clutches then let her momentarily get out of the vehicle to buy gum?

Just wondering which reports you accept and which you reject.

The guy re-dressed her following a sexual assault, then drove the rest of the way to Sunderland, sheared off her breastbone and attempted to decapitate her while poking and prodding? Then made sure her recorder was placed on the ground near her? At some point he undressed her again?

Don't get me wrong - I hunger for ideas and how they might work with what is known.

 

[Woodland]

I really enjoyed your recap a few pages back bohi93 on the 80's style of layered clothing - good times.

So how was Christine wearing the three tops she was reported to have been found in? A grey turtleneck according to RR (beige according to KR), white blouse according to both and a penny farthing sweatshirt according to RR (blue pullover according to KR).

My experience and recollection would be the turtleneck first (although Janet and Ken Jessop had no recollection of her having one) the white blouse and then the sweatshirt - pullover sweater.

Here is a dilemma - the sweatshirt - pullover had many small holes in it according to RR as did her panties. Many of the holes had blood surrounding them (the word in RR is many as opposed to all). The turtleneck, blouse and sweatshirt - pullover all had stab cuts in the back according to RR - not reported to be in front. KR says nothing about this.

When was she sexually assaulted and how much clothing was removed for that? Was her clothing put back on after the sexual assault?

Her head was found wrapped in the sweatshirt - pullover (blue in color). The blouse and turtleneck are reported in RR to be near the body but the exact location is not stated. The first detective on the scene could see the turtleneck and blouse according to RR.

So was the turtleneck, blouse and sweatshirt - pullover removed after she was stabbed and only the sweatshirt - pullover replaced over her head? Her hair reported as pushed forward seems out of place with a sweatshirt - pullover being placed on her head after the removal of other clothing.

Her panties are reported in RR as being found at her right foot and her pants south of her body.

There was a lot of activity with Christine's body at some point(s).

As a side note, Debbie Silverman's panties were left at the rear door of her apartment building when she was abducted. Just saying.

 

[Woodland]

Forgot to mention there were two holes found in what was left of her torso tissue at the first autopsy, but never any mention if these holes matched up with the holes in her sweatshirt - pullover.

 

[orora]

There is a lot of nasty reading to wade through to keep up here. That was a very commendable effort you all made to make sense of the autopsy's and pathologists reports. As has been indicated already, even this part has been hamstrung to some degree by the original investigation procedures and the reporting.

The original pathologists were quite experienced, the fbi had even conferred with police.. What was the standard procedure for testing of insect activity etc back in the day?

At times and in certain cases it seems as if our authorities would rather waste all the available resources on defending the original errors instead of identifying the source of the problem and proceeding down what should have been the proper path. Then the huge expenditure already mispent is offered up as justification for closure of any other legitimate investigational procedures. That has happened here. In some cases it seems as if it were all more deliberate than accidental. The entire gamit of errors and bungling cannot be overlooked and is part and parcel of what took place.

We are then forced to take some leaps and bounds to try and put all this together. Good attempts being made. I too get the impression that the body was moved at some point. The abundance of small knife cuts, (if true) all the little holes, the time that would take, the dissection and time of day that would be if on day 1, the lack of insect activity, lack of body fliuds, lack of odour, bones arranged, people at the site and neighborhood dogs not finding the body earlier etc.. The lack of determinate information and some of these points keep the question alive. The time needed to do all this right at the scene in Sunderland seems too much for a stranger on someone else's property in the middle of the night. Too chancy to attract attention imo.

So I too go with there being two locations. If initially in a vehicle, I would more suspect a closed in delivery type van than a car.

If the lack of insect activity is true and was a valid point, Christine's body was likely kept elsewhere for some indeterminate period of time. Blow flies are just one of the insect indicators. I go along with dedpans critique though which in the end still leaves it an open question.

To speculate for a moment on if it being true that there was a distinct lack of insect activity, what could that mean? One of the few ways of creating that effect is in a coffin like container, morgue or freezer. You have an air tight seal and temperature control if plugged in. Otherwise room temperature, you have decomposition but not with the usual blow fly type insect activity.

It is more the body organs that create the strong odour not the rest of the body tissues and bones insect activity or not. The organs and soft tissues will putrify and dissolve leak out and make it very hard not to notice the odour

The chest cavity was broken into at some indeterminate point. Possibly the ribs were stomped to seperate them from the clavical and facilitate an easier cutting into the cavity? What was done and in what order are two seperate aspects to look at imo. It may have been done just to remove the organs and the body possibly even washed out in water in an attempt to remove the cause of the odour. Maybe even as if someone was initially attempting some sort of mummification or crude embalming. Neither rage nor sexual exploration are a neccesary ingredient to explain this seemingly brutal aspect imo. It may merely have been a function neccesitated by the time and place of the initial murder location which may have even prompted the move to Sunderland.

At Sunderland you have a body minus organs, possibly without insect activity, with lack of strong odour. Was that that purpose of removing the organs and cleaning out the body in the first place? Then waiting till freeze up to move? Was the staged appearance coincidental as thats how far the legs had spread in a previous container then frozen that way when moved?

Again I am not obligated to any of the scenarios being discussed, just voicing a few alternates on how things could be viewed in conjunction with other personality types than the crazed disjointed impulsive sexual pervert.

On that same theme, if Christine was kept alive for some time, and had eaten anything, been fed anything, stomach contents may possibly also have to be disguised to keep with the GPM strategy. Something eaten from the store even, gum? Candy that was purchased and given her, used to lure her? That would take a different personality type alltogether.

If there was prior insect activity just missed, the odour situation mentioned above would be even more a dominant factor imo. the neighbours at the initial scene wouldn't be able to avoid detecting it for long. just mentioning ...food for thought.

Another quote "the handful of frozen maggots" still makes me wonder especially with the lack of any other information on the subject. On top of that, I still wonder what Cj's father Bob meant by if not on that day, it would have been another. Denotes knowledge of a pre existing underlying situation. One with a big potential danger to Christine.

Earlier, the question, why move her to Sunderland was asked, which was a different Police jurisdiction. That department took over the investigation when? Only when Christine was found? What was the relationship between the boys molesting Christine and a certain Police officer mentioned earlier in the Sunderland detachment? What was his rank? What did he do since and what rank did he arise to?

 

[Woodland]

Orora - there was only one original pathologist who was much criticized on other cases - information easily found. The second set of Ontario pathologists seemed qualified and competent. They recognized the failings of the first pathologist and acted accordingly then subsequently disagreed on the nature and timing of the injuries.

The FBI profiler has been criticized on this case by his peers and there was no stomach or contents to analyze.

Frozen maggots was a statement by the author of RR - not attributed to any LE officer at any time. Speculation and assumption only - what was expected to be found. According to another pathologist from another province, insects did not exist. No pathologist from Ontario mentioned seeing them.

We don't know what Bob Jessop meant exactly by his quote. It is recorded more than once he felt his incarceration is what caused Christine to be abducted and killed. LE disagrees.

The suspects you mention were cleared by DNA - according to reports they were on the top of the list to clear.

Just keeping things in perspective.

 

[orora]

No prob W. re: autopsy pathologist findings
I pretty well agree with what dedpanman posted previous

So, in conclusion, it seems that maggots, when they are ready to pupate, leave the corpse and sometimes travel as far away as 8 meters and burrow into the ground. This fact might seem contrary to our common sense – but there's the evidence above. When the fly hatches, the puparium is left behind in the ground, so if Ferris is looking at photographs, he's not going to see them there around the body or on the body.

If evidence-collection was pathetic and amateurish by Durham police (and it was) the puparium were missed because the officers involved had no training or knowledge in this regard. They probably didn't even know to look for puparium or take soil samples some distance from the body.

Police slid C's body onto a board – and they tried to take a few inches of soil with it. This was happening in late December and the ground was frozen, so it's unlikely they removed very much soil from the scene – and the soil they did take was in the wrong location to find puparium. That could be why the Ontario pathologists and forensic personnel didn't note them either. They just weren't there in the samples that Durham took from the scene.
Like I said, all of this proves nothing... but it does raise some significant issues. Does it not?

I realize there was no stomach contents, just questioning the deliberatness of that aspect in the general scheme of things.. There is evidence that suggests the organs could have been removed and no evidence to suggest decomposition on site.

re-

It is recorded more than once he felt his incarceration is what caused Christine to be abducted and killed. LE disagrees.

How so? Just in that she would be left alone unguarded or that there was some revenge motive or something else? I believe it was stated the victims of Bob Jessop's fraud were just one elderly couple? If that is correct, that motive seems just as LE indicates.

The suspects you mention were cleared by DNA - according to reports they were on the top of the list to clear.

Just keeping things in perspective.

Top of the list to clear when the case was transfered to the Sunderland detachment? Was there not a relative of the boys stationed at that detachment?

The "boys" are not the suspects I am looking at, although I believe one failed a lie detector. They may be part of what happened though, even just as a precursor to what would come. I believe someone earlier had used the analogy of lightning striking twice and brought up the coincidence factor. Thats all still worth watching for and not writing off any suspects or derivatives of quite yet imo.

 

[Woodland]

For clarity the case was transferred to Durham Region Police. Sunderland is a small town that is part of that region.

Is there anything you can share on your suspects orora?

 

[orora]

Nope, just clarifying that it was not necessarily the boys alone who should be looked at in regard to the past sexual abuse. But they may provide the lead to the "other(s)."

Main theme of that post was that neither rage nor sexual motivations need be the exclusive explanation for what was done to the body. Just keeping the options open..

Was there a relative of the "boys" on the Durham Police force at the time?

 

[orora]

Has anyone attempted to confirm a link between the boys and a member of the Durham Police force? What did you mean by your quote below W.?

This direction could get very interesting!

Woodland-

When you asked WG your question I was tempted to post a reminder that Christine's killer had the smarts to place her body in a different jurisdiction than the one she disappeared from. Very smart or just lucky due to some connection to that location? Do people that commit this type of crime become aware that different jurisdictions are their best bet to stay under the radar?

This direction could get very interesting!

 

[Woodland]

It meant the possibility of new information.

 

[Woodland]

Stumbled across an article where Dr John Ferris is testifying for the defense in another trial. JCT was charged with the rape and murder of 9 year-old Andrea Atkinson in 1990 and the trial was held in Toronto.

Toronto Star 17 December 1992 page A04

Ferris challenges the autopsy conclusion that Andrea suffered a fractured skull and was asphyxiated after being raped. Ferris claims Andrea 'may have' suffered a seizure causing death during the trauma of rape due to a fall she had two months prior to her disappearance. Ferris claims that is when the skull fracture occurred.

The Crown counters with a challenge that Ferris was not present for the autopsy and relied on photos and reports.

JCT was found guilty on DNA evidence - one of the earliest DNA cases in Canada.

So Ferris was available as an out-of-province pathologist for the defense to raise reasonable doubt. In Christine's case, he was assisting to defend an innocent man who ironically was later freed by DNA evidence.

Not quite sure what to make of this or what others will make of it, if anything. Challenging the conclusion here by Ferris is valid, just a reminder that in RR, the detectives initially found it hard to believe Christine was in Sunderland for three months for a few reasons that they failed to follow up - or lacked the leadership to follow up. The neighbours dogs did not alert to her presence until 31 December and the property owners are reported to have been there in late October without noticing her as well as the first week in December.

 

[Dedpanman]

I finally got my hands on a first edition of Redrum. The first edition contained two sections of photographs that were omitted from the Revised Edition - which is what I’ve been working from. One of the pictures in the photo section is a clearer photo of where Christine’s remains were found (and the mysterious object I mentioned in a post a few pages back). See below for the photograph.

Clearly, the mystery object is an outhouse. I have taken the liberty of labelling the photograph so that one can be oriented in terms of direction and geography. I can say that I am one hundred percent certain that I am correct.

I am also pretty certain that we can see part of the Culls’ trailer at the far left and I believe it to be the upper portion of a camper-trailer. I have attached a reference photo of a similar camper-trailer for comparison purposes. It looks like the Culls’ trailer had a window where the reference camper-trailer does not. See what you think.

I am pleased to note that my diagram of the body dump site from page 6 of this thread turned out to be pretty accurate after all (I hope I don’t sound smug) – but I did make a few errors in terms of the twist and curve of the tractor path. I will modify the diagram and make it more accurate - add the birch trees and the outhouse, etc.

It’s interesting to note as well, that when I flip through the first edition of Redrum, there are some significant differences between it and the Revised Edition – the most apparent difference being that a complete chapter early in the book was omitted from the Revised Edition. Looks like I’ll have to read the whole thing and do a side-by-side comparison.

 

[Dedpanman]

See attached for an uncredited police photograph of the infamous recorder.