Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #2 *killer identified*

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WhitePine said:
The process that was followed was referred to as similar to the Green Bay killer...in that process, they showed how they used a sample that was compared to a database (from genealogy programs, I believe) to narrow down to a family tree. From there, they ticked off people based on where they lived, eye colour, etc. and the Green Bay killer was the only one from the set of possible matches that fit in other ways. LE didn't get into details but I am guessing that they used a similar process with this sample. They located a family tree that was a close match and then they worked to rule out people until they came across suspects to narrow in on. Does this help explain why they only just looked now and didn't before? They certainly could have tried this with possible suspects much earlier but I think that it is these databases that are growing that is the real key to how this was resolved and how future unsolved cases can also be put to rest.
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you are right. If none of his family members would have had any dna samples in that directory they would have never found Hoover.
 
wary said:
But if they considered him a possible suspect, they could have worked on getting his DNA, starting in 1995, 25 years ago.
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I don’t recall reading or viewing anything recently that considered CH a suspect until after they sent the DNA from Christine’s underpants to the genealogical DNA profilers in the U.S. The profilers were able to compare the DNA captured from the underwear to people with similar DNA who had posted their DNA results to various genealogical websites looking to connect with relatives. CH was one of the names that surfaced within the family trees with similar DNA on these sites. When LE reviewed these results, they were then able to narrow down their search to CH by checking his specific DNA against the DNA from the underwear. That’s my understanding of how LE concluded it was CH who raped her.
 
wary said:
But if they considered him a possible suspect, they could have worked on getting his DNA, starting in 1995, 25 years ago.
Click to expand...

I’m hesitant to compare Christine’s horrific murder to that of Gail Miller but there are possible similarities aside from both murders and subsequent acquittals occurring roughly during the same time period - but my #1 is once a prosecution takes place, even if the accused is later acquitted, police departments can be reluctant to admit they were ever wrong. It took 17 years for Gail’s killer to be brought to justice even though the perp’s wife spoke out, believing him to be guilty. (For that reason I think we can’t assume everyone covered up regarding Christine’s murder if they had reason to suspect Hoover was responsible.)

I’d assume the reason for blinders within some police departments might be the same old adage I notice spoken here from time to time - Even though he/she was found not guilty doesn’t mean he’s innocent. JMO

David Milgaard - Wikipedia
Linda Fisher, ex-wife of Larry Fisher, visited the Saskatoon police department in 1980. She told the police that she believed her former husband had likely killed Miller. The Saskatoon police department did not follow up on her statement.[11] The inquiry report released by MacCallum states that "[w]hile MacCallum noted that Milgaard's family members mounted a formidable public awareness campaign, their efforts also created tension and resentment within the police and the Crown's office."[12] This is seen by some as an excuse for the failure of the Saskatoon police to investigate Larry Fisher.

Real killer[edit]
On July 25, 1997 Larry Fisher was arrested for the murder and rape of Miller. He was convicted in 1999 and sentenced to life in prison for the crime.[13] Fisher lived in the neighbourhood where Miller was raped and murdered, and had previously served time for rape, but at the time he was not seriously considered as a suspect. Fisher was never paroled, dying in prison in 2015.[14]
 
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I’m sure the story of Monster Hoover isn’t over yet. I could be wrong, but I think that either
A) he was a sicko with a desire to rape a child, for whatever reason. Maybe he did it before, maybe he did it again after this case. Maybe he was just a sick little perverted wimpy loser, and managed to only do it once. But mental instability, sexual perversion could be the reason.
Or
B) he hated the Jessops for some reason only known to him and wanted to hurt them deeply. If this was the case, I think the Jessops would have know or sensed his dislike and told the police “hey here’s a guy with motive”. If this is the case, how could he? How could he actually physically do what he did to a child? You can hate someone deeply and maybe somehow kill them or a family member, but to rape a child??? Ugh!
 
WhitePine said:
The process that was followed was referred to as similar to the Green Bay killer...in that process, they showed how they used a sample that was compared to a database (from genealogy programs, I believe) to narrow down to a family tree. From there, they ticked off people based on where they lived, eye colour, etc. and the Green Bay killer was the only one from the set of possible matches that fit in other ways. LE didn't get into details but I am guessing that they used a similar process with this sample. They located a family tree that was a close match and then they worked to rule out people until they came across suspects to narrow in on. Does this help explain why they only just looked now and didn't before? They certainly could have tried this with possible suspects much earlier but I think that it is these databases that are growing that is the real key to how this was resolved and how future unsolved cases can also be put to rest.
Click to expand...

Yes I understand the process behind Familial DNA. My question, which only LE knows the answer to - if there was any evidence incriminating Hoover, why didn’t LE investigate him years prior to his death? Or did they never reopen the investigation to look for other suspects after Morin was acquitted and why’s that? The list of possible suspects seems to have been very few.

That Familial DNA appears to have solved this crime after the guilty party is dead I suppose is good but I can’t feel it’s a great win considering a lot of information is coming forth to suggest Hoover should’ve been investigated while he was alive. That would include obtaining a warrant to obtain his DNA to determine if it was a match. Even before a warrant is obtained it’s not unheard of for LE to surreptitiously obtain a DNA sample from a suspect.
 
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I wonder if HH had a nervous breakdown because she found out what CH did, or if because the rest of found out what she already knew.
Women always know when their spouse or partner is up to something wrong. They can tell when something is off. I find it hard to believe that she knew nothing. Maybe she stayed quiet to prevent embarrassment to her children? If she truly had no idea, she was not the sharpest tool in the shed or he was a master planner and manipulator. I wish someone who actually knew him and knew what he was like would come on this site and enlighten us. Although most who knew him are probably speechless and in shock right now.
 
copkid said:
Canada: Kaufman Commission - Guy Paul Morin - Evidence of "screams"

This is a link I saved years ago...you may have to type the address into your search bar.
The information related to the 3 different families that heard screams is explained in detail here.
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Thank you! I’ve only been following this since last week when they announced the real killer. This entire case must be so bitter-sweet for all concerned. I can’t even imagine the conflicting emotions for all those involved.
 
Coralina said:
I wonder if HH had a nervous breakdown because she found out what CH did, or if because the rest of found out what she already knew.
Women always know when their spouse or partner is up to something wrong. They can tell when something is off. I find it hard to believe that she knew nothing. Maybe she stayed quiet to prevent embarrassment to her children? If she truly had no idea, she was not the sharpest tool in the shed or he was a master planner and manipulator. I wish someone who actually knew him and knew what he was like would come on this site and enlighten us. Although most who knew him are probably speechless and in shock right now.
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I do hope she opens up to LE and shares honestly about what she knows. What I keep wondering is if CH had assaulted Christine during any of his visits. How often was he there visiting them? There were reports from last week, I believe from KJ, who said the Hoovers even babysat them occasionally too. I don’t believe this was his first assault on her at all before he took it to this next level. I kind of found it weird to hear the family say, “he saw his opportunity and he took it”.

Edited to add source for babysitting comment:

Who was Calvin Hoover? The man Toronto police say killed 9-year-old Christine Jessop in 1984
 
copkid said:
Canada: Kaufman Commission - Guy Paul Morin - Evidence of "screams"

This is a link I saved years ago...you may have to type the address into your search bar.
The information related to the 3 different families that heard screams is explained in detail here.
Click to expand...
Copkid this article is great!!! Robert Atkinson is reported as having seen Christine across the street from the store at 4:00 pm with two little boys and one about 10 or 11 years of age. I wonder who those kids were, if they were interviewed!
 
MistyWaters said:
Yes I understand the process behind Familial DNA. My question, which only LE knows the answer to - if there was any evidence incriminating Hoover, why didn’t LE investigate him years prior to his death? Or did they never reopen the investigation to look for other suspects after Morin was acquitted and why’s that? The list of possible suspects seems to have been very few.

That Familial DNA appears to have solved this crime after the guilty party is dead I suppose is good but I can’t feel it’s a great win considering a lot of information is coming forth to suggest Hoover should’ve been investigated while he was alive. That would include obtaining a warrant to obtain his DNA to determine if it was a match. Even before a warrant is obtained it’s not unheard of for LE to surreptitiously obtain a DNA sample from a suspect.
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell Hoover was never considered a suspect and investigators didn't even look for evidence that would incriminate him. They must have questioned him, though, since he reportedly was a POI back in 1984.

Even after Morin was acquitted, the prosecutor still believed he was responsible, according to KJ.

Christine's brother has always believed that one of the four people that knew he and his mother were going to the jail that day was responsible. Even though he had the wrong person in mind, it's hard to believe LE did not consider Hoover as a suspect.

It's ironic that the profile suggested that the perp would have participated in the search and shown interest in the investigation, yet the fact that Morin didn't participate was used to prove his guilt.

Meanwhile, the real killer did help search for Christine and attended the funeral.
 
Anyone interested in reading, below is the Executive Summary of, in part, the criminal proceedings involving the charge that Morin murdered Christine Jessop. The wrong-doing involved in his being charged and convicted is utterly disgusting IMO. Given all that, I’d wonder that LE’s integrity would’ve been crucified had they pursued a conviction of any other living suspect, including CH.


https://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov...rings/exhibits/OPC/pdf/60_Kaufman_Summary.pdf

Interestingly, it was the same DNA evidence which cleared Morin in 1995, 25 years earlier. So DNA testing was alive and well in Canada by that year.

“(Morin’s) His acquittal by the Court of Appeal on January 23, 1995, was based on fresh DNA evidence, which established that he was not the donor of semen stains found on Christine Jessop’s underwear. ....”
 
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Maybe I am reading this wrong , or misunderstood what Joe Warmington meant in his article ....

(Quote) .... Never a suspect, police knew Hoover was a neighbour of the Jessops and worked for the slain girl’s father Robert. The only match from this profile to anything in the Canadian DNA bank was that of Christine Jessop.

WARMINGTON: Final effort to identify Jessop's killer before retiring pays off | Toronto Sun

Sounds to me like police have checked other unsolved cases and Hoovers DNA only showed up in the Jessop case
 
I have been going over some of my old notes taken from REDRUM the Innocent by Kirk Makin.
There were a couple of versions of this book released so page numbers are difficult, however.....

Page 353 in my copy discusses Janet Jessop's testimony in the proceedings against GPM.

Janet estimated it was 4:10-4:15 pm when she and Kenny arrived home--but she might have been wrong.
All she really knew for sure was that she called her lawyer at 4:50pm. "I couldn't have been home more than 15 minutes. so maybe my timing is way out as to what time I came home", Janet suggested.
Clayton Ruby was curious as to how Janet could be so sure it was 4:50pm when she called her lawyer.
"Because I looked at the clock deliberately, thinking I had to call this person at that time", Janet said.

Mrs Jessop was clearly asked many times about her actions and movements that day...it is so unfortunate that she did not remember her conversation with Heather Hoover that day too.

JMO
 
MistyWaters said:
I don’t think it’s ever really been proven which came first, Morin or the profile of a loner.
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Morin came first.

The Kaufman Inquiry documents into GPM's wrongful conviction are linked in a while back. The profile was written up after the TPS already had GPM tagged as a suspect and fed some specific items to the profiler as part of the details to have the profile written. Then, when the written profile came back to the police, they specifically left out, and also altered details in the profile, to have it fit Morin better. They were convinced they had "their man" in GPM; they didn't as DNA proved, but even after DNA proved so the Investigators and the profiler still insisted that he was involved so must have had someone he was working with and that left the DNA. True blinders on.

This DNA showing guilt of Hoover definitively proves that profiler and the investigators wrong once and for all.

I'll take the evidence presented at a Government Inquiry as being "proof". This was a true miscarriage of justice.
 
Vern said:
Morin came first.

The Kaufman Inquiry documents into GPM's wrongful conviction are linked in a while back. The profile was written up after the TPS already had GPM tagged as a suspect and fed some specific items to the profiler as part of the details to have the profile written. Then, when the written profile came back to the police, they specifically left out, and also altered details in the profile, to have it fit Morin better. They were convinced they had "their man" in GPM; they didn't as DNA proved, but even after DNA proved so the Investigators and the profiler still insisted that he was involved so must have had someone he was working with and that left the DNA. True blinders on.

This DNA showing guilt of Hoover definitively proves that profiler and the investigators wrong once and for all.

I'll take the evidence presented at a Government Inquiry as being "proof". This was a true miscarriage of justice.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that’s really not surprising at all. If time could rightly be wound back, another agency would’ve taken over the investigation fresh from the beginning. While the Public Inquiry noted 119 recommendations for change, what’s a tragedy to me is the killer lived unknown for almost 20 more years until he took his own life.

I doubt whatever information still contained in that original police file can be trusted.

BBM

'I'm sorry, Paul' | Maclean's | JULY 1, 1997
“To support the case against their neighbor, Ken and his mother, Janet Jessop, now say, police pressured them to change their accounts of when they arrived home that day—evidence that helped convict Morin in 1992, six years after he had been acquitted at an earlier trial. Jessop, who testified last week at a Toronto inquiry examining the circumstances of Morin’s wrongful conviction, said police convinced his family that their neighbor, who was finally exonerated by DNA evidence in 1995, was a “demon.”
 
Arnie M said:
.
Maybe I am reading this wrong , or misunderstood what Joe Warmington meant in his article ....

(Quote) .... Never a suspect, police knew Hoover was a neighbour of the Jessops and worked for the slain girl’s father Robert. The only match from this profile to anything in the Canadian DNA bank was that of Christine Jessop.

WARMINGTON: Final effort to identify Jessop's killer before retiring pays off | Toronto Sun

Sounds to me like police have checked other unsolved cases and Hoovers DNA only showed up in the Jessop case
Click to expand...

That’s how I understand it also. Hoover’s DNA has showed up as a match only to CJ so far in the Canadian DNA database. I wonder if LE has checked in the American database yet.
 
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