Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Cormier, 19, St John, NB, 29 Sept 2013 - #2

[Truth Prevails]

Was thinking about the "no foul play" and considering how rough the water is around these towns -- this could be used to advantage by someone with evil intentions.

And that is some of my reasoning for thinking a local person is responsible.

He could even be taunting law enforcement a little. Numbers 1 and 2 go missing from slightly different areas, but turn up in within feet of each other.

Numbers 2 and 3 go missing in almost identical areas, but he makes sure there is a different landing spot for the remains of #3.

A body that's been exposed to that rough water must be heavily bruised/damaged, masking bruises a person would have if taken by force and who may have fought... As long as there no ligature marks. But even then, there are cases of suicide in which the victim ties there own hands, and in those cases the knot has to be carefully examined to see if self tied.

They should be able to tell the difference between pre-mortem bruising and post-mortem bruising--that is, if they trouble themselves with looking.

But then again, being in the water for a length of time could prevent that opportunity. It may all depend on how long she was in the water.

And Gen still having her shoulder bag with her really makes me question that.

There is really something not right.

If that bag was still with her, she could not have been in the water that long--unless it was firmly attached somehow.

 

[OldSteve]

Good morning Truth! I enjoy seeing your post each morning when I check into WS. I find your reasoning most informative and insightful!

Excellent points -

He could even be taunting law enforcement a little. Numbers 1 and 2 go missing from slightly different areas, but turn up in within feet of each other.

Numbers 2 and 3 go missing in almost identical areas, but he makes sure there is a different landing spot for the remains of #3.

Something really just does not make sense or we have an amazing set of coincidence!
I would think with cold weather, there's won't be any more "suicides" or "accidents" in the area. I have to wonder if in the spring, another will sadly happen...

Does seem if someone is behind this, the person(s) would be local, or at least have some residence considering time span of first to present missing person.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Good morning Truth! I enjoy seeing your post each morning when I check into WS. I find your reasoning most informative and insightful!

Excellent points -

Something really just does not make sense or we have an amazing set of coincidence!
I would think with cold weather, there's won't be any more "suicides" or "accidents" in the area. I have to wonder if in the spring, another will sadly happen...

Does seem if someone is behind this, the person(s) would be local, or at least have some residence considering time span of first to present missing person.

Good morning back to you, Steve.

Yes--even though I have to twist my arm a little bit--I do agree that this could possibly be just an amazing set of coincidences.

In the meantime, I will continue to watch with real fear in heart.

I don't believe Saint John has a high number of seasonal residents, but it is a port city, with a lot of ocean going vessels in and out of the port.

Another thing, there is a convention center tucked into the uptown area. When there is a big convention going on, I've seen those clubs just pack with people. Some of them aren't necessarily strangers, having been raised in Saint John and just currently living in another city.

So, we have nothing really to narrow down the suspects in any way.

I also agree that it is probably safe for the winter months. Besides the above, the river doesn't freeze due to the tide, but getting down to the river bed itself would be more dangerous--if that's how he is getting his victims in the water.

Plus it wouldn't fit his intervals, unless he intends to up them.

I wonder if he would be bold enough to select his next victim from the uptown area but have her wash up on Anthony's Cove. That would fit in with the pattern he has set so far.

It's scary stuff.

 

[Sandpiper]

Perhaps Gen didn't go into the water at the Falls or in the Falls area, she may have been taken someplace else. Can you really chose where a body will wash up with tides like we have in the Bay of Fundy? Would a body have to placed close to Anthonys Cove or atleast in the general area? We need an expert on tides as well as a super forensic pathologist.

 

[M&M's]

I am new to this website but so glad to see that there are others that are questioning what is happening to these woman. I have believed all along that these past three victims have not committed suicide. I am from the area and actually participated in the search efforts for Gen. This family and the community deserves answers. "No foul play expected" is not acceptable without a suicide note or indication of deep depression and possible suicidal thoughts (which none of these woman had to my knowledge).

 

[Truth Prevails]

Perhaps Gen didn't go into the water at the Falls or in the Falls area, she may have been taken someplace else. Can you really chose where a body will wash up with tides like we have in the Bay of Fundy? Would a body have to placed close to Anthonys Cove or atleast in the general area? We need an expert on tides as well as a super forensic pathologist.

BBM - I've been wondering this, too.

It would take someone knowledgeable about the tides, imo.

It's a miracle they are surfacing at all, so I don't know what to make of it, really.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I am new to this website but so glad to see that there are others that are questioning what is happening to these woman. I have believed all along that these past three victims have not committed suicide. I am from the area and actually participated in the search efforts for Gen. This family and the community deserves answers. "No foul play expected" is not acceptable without a suicide note or indication of deep depression and possible suicidal thoughts (which none of these woman had to my knowledge).

Welcome, M&M's!

I couldn't agree more about the family and the community deserving answers.

 

[Sandpiper]

I am new to this website but so glad to see that there are others that are questioning what is happening to these woman. I have believed all along that these past three victims have not committed suicide. I am from the area and actually participated in the search efforts for Gen. This family and the community deserves answers. "No foul play expected" is not acceptable without a suicide note or indication of deep depression and possible suicidal thoughts (which none of these woman had to my knowledge).

Welcome M&M'S so glad to hear from you and glad you joined our small group!As someone who took part in the searches ( and God Bless you all) do you know anything about where and when the dogs searched? Was any trace ever found? I just cannot believe that with a know last location at the Boaz that no trace was found in the parking lot or on the path. No Gen did not commit suicide and the community needs answers or atleast more questions asked. I have female family members in this city and I worry. Again Welcome!

 

[OldSteve]

I asked a fellow websleuther to join this thread and weigh in with his thoughts as he is experienced in sar... be interesting to get some more thoughts about all we've been discussing...

 

[OldSteve]

I am new to this website but so glad to see that there are others that are questioning what is happening to these woman. I have believed all along that these past three victims have not committed suicide. I am from the area and actually participated in the search efforts for Gen. This family and the community deserves answers. "No foul play expected" is not acceptable without a suicide note or indication of deep depression and possible suicidal thoughts (which none of these woman had to my knowledge).

:welcome: M&M's :wagon: glad you joined WS, and glad you are here!

Adding to what your wrote - no prior suicide attempts as far as I know..

 

[Sandpiper]

I asked a fellow websleuther to join this thread and weigh in with his thoughts as he is experienced in sar... be interesting to get some more thoughts about all we've been discussing...

Thanks Old Steve that is wonderful! The dog issue really stumps me. If a person used the path all the time(Gens friends said on a daily basis) wouldn't there be old scent? How does a dog know the difference between old and fresh? I mean they have the exact spot she was last sited,why wouldn't a dog pick up something up? How long does the scent last?

 

[M&M's]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone! And unfortunately I have no information with respect to the search with the dogs. All we know is basically what was released in the media, that the dogs were no able to pick up on anything and a time frame of when the dogs were used was not provided. I understand that all details of this case (and the previous cases) are not "everyone's" business, but you would think the department would like to prove that they have tried everything possible with respect to finding out what happened. I find that so opposite in all these cases though, everything is kept pretty quiet.

 

[Sandpiper]

I guess our whole problem is the fact that everyone was found in water,the forensics hard to prove and very dependent on so called circumstances. Everyone has some little spot of something in their lives,you wouldn't be alive if this was not so-therefore because you are human and you are found in the harbour or in the Bay you committed suicide. There is more to it than that.

 

[M&M's]

So true Sandpiper. We definitely need more information regarding the autopsy report which maybe her sister will be able to provide. It is too bad we didn't have more information from all the families of these woman. I am not sure if the other victims families are convinced it was suicide or not? And in Saint John, are the people conducting the autopsies even capable of looking deep into the forensics or are they just proving the actual cause of death. Did all of these woman have water in their lungs and die of drowning, or were the possibly deceased before they hit the water? There is no way all these woman did this to themselves and none left a note. I just can't accept that. I have read up a lot about suicide as my father took his own life years back, and left a note............

 

[Sandpiper]

So true Sandpiper. We definitely need more information regarding the autopsy report which maybe her sister will be able to provide. It is too bad we didn't have more information from all the families of these woman. I am not sure if the other victims families are convinced it was suicide or not? And in Saint John, are the people conducting the autopsies even capable of looking deep into the forensics or are they just proving the actual cause of death. Did all of these woman have water in their lungs and die of drowning, or were the possibly deceased before they hit the water? There is no way all these woman did this to themselves and none left a note. I just can't accept that. I have read up a lot about suicide as my father took his own life years back, and left a note............

So sorry to hear of the loss of your dad. I suppose the shock of having a daughter or a wife missing is just so heartbreaking and terrifying,that at first it must be such a relief to have them found. Then some folks don't question the police and may not be as suspicious as we are. The family of Yeonhee also perhaps had a language problem and again perhaps do not question. I also wonder if we have the expertise with forensic pathology that was needed in these cases.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone! And unfortunately I have no information with respect to the search with the dogs. All we know is basically what was released in the media, that the dogs were no able to pick up on anything and a time frame of when the dogs were used was not provided. I understand that all details of this case (and the previous cases) are not "everyone's" business, but you would think the department would like to prove that they have tried everything possible with respect to finding out what happened. I find that so opposite in all these cases though, everything is kept pretty quiet.

BBM - Yes, I understand and agree with that, also.

What I don't understand is how knowing when the dogs searched would effect anything having to do with the 'integrity' of the case.

Through a media link, we know when the grid searches were being done. What harm could there possibly be in knowing if the dog searches were done before or after that date?

 

[Truth Prevails]

I guess our whole problem is the fact that everyone was found in water,the forensics hard to prove and very dependent on so called circumstances. Everyone has some little spot of something in their lives,you wouldn't be alive if this was not so-therefore because you are human and you are found in the harbour or in the Bay you committed suicide. There is more to it than that.

It's hard to say if everyone being found in the water is the main problem.

The main problem may be in the investigation itself. imo

By statistics alone, women being found in the water points more to murder than anything else. It seems to be a local phenomenon, although it doesn't quite fit

There is certainly more to this than we are being told.

 

[Truth Prevails]

So true Sandpiper. We definitely need more information regarding the autopsy report which maybe her sister will be able to provide. It is too bad we didn't have more information from all the families of these woman. I am not sure if the other victims families are convinced it was suicide or not? And in Saint John, are the people conducting the autopsies even capable of looking deep into the forensics or are they just proving the actual cause of death. Did all of these woman have water in their lungs and die of drowning, or were the possibly deceased before they hit the water? There is no way all these woman did this to themselves and none left a note. I just can't accept that. I have read up a lot about suicide as my father took his own life years back, and left a note............

I don't know how to say this, but I'll try to put it into words somehow.

I feel that we are asking too much to expect Gen's sister to provide the autopsy report. Those things are not nice to read, and it may be better for her if she doesn't look at it at all.

The media may release that it has been completed, and I'm expecting the findings to be 'no foul play.'

I don't believe Gen's family will get that much more information.

We will have to swallow it like we have with Shelby and Yeonhee.

I'm sorry to hear about your father, and hope you found some consolation in his note.

 

[Truth Prevails]

So sorry to hear of the loss of your dad. I suppose the shock of having a daughter or a wife missing is just so heartbreaking and terrifying,that at first it must be such a relief to have them found. Then some folks don't question the police and may not be as suspicious as we are. The family of Yeonhee also perhaps had a language problem and again perhaps do not question. I also wonder if we have the expertise with forensic pathology that was needed in these cases.

I believe we have the expertise. What I don't believe is that the true findings will be allowed to come forward.

It might upset the 'integrity' of the investigation.

Remember this old article? How do they know this if they are still awaiting the toxicology report? Were toxicology reports done on the other women? If not, why not?

They know because they have already made up their minds as to how this is going to go. It doesn't matter to them what the results of anything are. imo

SAINT JOHN - The city's police chief says there's no connection between three women who went missing in the city in the span of about a year.

 

[Sandpiper]

I believe we have the expertise. What I don't believe is that the true findings will be allowed to come forward.

It might upset the 'integrity' of the investigation.

Remember this old article? How do they know this if they are still awaiting the toxicology report? Were toxicology reports done on the other women? If not, why not?

They know because they have already made up their minds as to how this is going to go. It doesn't matter to them what the results of anything are. imo

I think toxicology reports are a stop gap, they have the autopsy report done and dusted at this point. The pathologist depends greatly on the circumstances of the death which he or she gets from the police. In drownings the pathologist works forward from that information because it is so hard to prove much of anything after a length of time in water.