Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

[Link Haze]

Worst thing is, if they are not caught alive, the families will never know why their loved ones died

Nor will anyone else. Don't think they cared too much about that. BS didn't even reply to his father's texts when they were first setting out.

 

[LadyL]

RE: BS’s father, AS

This has been niggling in my brain like a little worm for over a week now so I thought I might as well get it out here and be done with it.

Something has bothered me about AS from the beginning. It might simply be my typical WASP Canadian upbringing (white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant) and I’m just uncomfortable with the public displays of very genuine emotion, but...

In the first interview he does with CHEK tv, AS offers a screenshot of his last text messages with BS (link below).

I’m sure I’m just being an overzealous, pedantic Sleuther here (Sleutheryn?) leaping at anything in the absence of fresh updates, but AS makes a funny use of punctuation that I can’t get out of my head.

Transcription/Summary:
On July 12, BS tells AS he and Kim [sic] are going to Alberta and he won’t have internet.
AS responds about BS taking off after only two paycheques and that AS bought $100 cologne for BS.

Then a day later AS says send photos. No response.
Then a day later AS says hi. No response.
Then a day later AS says hi again. No response.
Then that same day AS texts: Did you get “there” yet.

It’s those quotation marks that keep floating around my head. Why the air quotes? If my kid was heading somewhere, I wouldn’t choose to type the quotation marks.

I’m sure it’s completely nothing so please feel free to heap the abuse on me, but it just feels like that guy you share a secret with who can’t help himself but drop hints to the secret in front of other people.

Anyway, clearly just my overactive and conspiracy-theory bound opinion.

It’s at 0:51.

Father holding out hope after two Port Alberni teens vanish in northern B.C.

I agree that is strange. Like they previously discussed the 'real' destination and it's different from the destination they told other people

 

[Gina20]

Haven't seen this discussed yet, but yesterday, someone linked to an article where AS said BS came to live with him briefly when he was 16, so that would have been 2-3 years ago. He lives in Victoria, so that means BS moved 2.5 hours or so away from where he was raised.

My immediate thought was that one of the reasons it didn't last long was because BS wanted to go back to where he was raised because that's where KM was.

As more information has been released about BS's chaotic childhood, I'm more and more convinced that the friendship with KM was the stablest aspect of his life. (Should clarify: I don't think it was stable in the normal sense of a friendship. I'm pretty sure darker interests and impulses were one of the things they have in common.)

But I do think KM and possibly even KM's family were there for him, a constant that he relied on in a way he didn't feel his parents were.

I think moving in with grandma was a way for him to return to that sense of security. I also wonder if it was ever suggested that he move in with KM. I remember AS said the two always went to KM's house rather than the other way around. I know other situations where a friend in a worse home situation moves in with friends.

In any event, when the brief move was mentioned, I immediately thought of the Parker Hulme case, which has been on my mind a lot with this case, though there are certainly differences. One of the inciting factors in murder was an impending move to split up the 2 girls. Obviously didn't end in murder at the time for these 2. But for such a close friendship, I'm sure that 2.5 hour distance seemed like an eternity and a burden.

All MOO and speculation.

Bryer was born in Duncan. Just adding for extra info.

 

[MistyWaters]

ITA! Isn’t asking for registration and insurance standard on any traffic stop?

The two were not stopped by police officers. Band constables could be compared to aboriginal security officers who’s job is to ensure their First Nations community remains dry (from alcohol), enforcing the local band’s bylaws. Reserves are the respective First Nation’s peoples private property and so the band has the right to implement their own regulations even though a provincial highway might pass through it. The band constables would have no reason to ask to see registration and insurance for the vehicle as they don’t have access to policing systems because they’re not police officers. Their role is to prevent alcohol from being delivered or sold on the reserve.

Dry reserves, check stops and the employing of their local residents as band constables is very common at First Nations reserves across Canada. Alcohol has caused problems in the past on some reserves and this is their chosen way to eliminate its availability.

 

[otto]

Chynna's big brother makes a plea for everyone to help find the suspects. Interesting to learn that Chynna came from such a large family.

I have a bit of a disconnect between "experienced traveller" and where they were murdered. To some degree, I wonder if they let their guard down because they were in a beautiful natural environment.

"It makes even less sense that it happened to such an experienced traveller in an isolated Canadian community where residents, before the events of this summer, might not even have locked their doors.
...

Chynna was one of six siblings and "many step siblings," said Deese, describing them as a massive, modern family.
...

"We pray that the two boys get caught ... and [we're] asking for the entire country of Canada's help in doing that."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...-bring-suspects-in-as-family-mourns-1.5232642

 

[rickcross]

so the next day when he heard about the fugitives and thought of the phonecall, he didn't think then to look at his call log and make a note of the number?

He's the only taxi driver in town and can get up to 50 calls a day. I'm not even sure how many calls my iPhone stores, because lets face it, who phones anyone anymore? That said, in a town of 500 and he said he gets 50 calls a day? Seems a little exaggerated.

 

[SBurrus]

For those who believe the 2 suspects are still alive, perhaps it's time to call in Detective Lieutenant, Joe Kenda. After all, he states, "If you kill, I will find you." They are most likely deceased and their remains may never be found.

Or Jessica Fletcher. (Just adding some humor to the thread).

 

[Moriarty]

He's the only taxi driver in town and can get up to 50 calls a day. I'm not even sure how many calls my iPhone stores, because lets face it, who phones anyone anymore? That said, in a town of 500 and he said he gets 50 calls a day? Seems a little exaggerated.

And where are all of these people going? He said he doesn't go up the road to Byrd...does he go back to Split Lake, I wonder? Gillam looks only to be a km wide at most with maybe 15 streets...

 

[midwinter]

Its a bit surprising to me that these two have seemed to vanish without a trace. If they are still alive, they instantly became a whole lot more careful all of a sudden? If they are dead, the RCMP should have seen some trace of them or their bodies near gillam given the time and resources that have been allocated there, they should have been able to cover a decent radius by now. I personally am a bit surprised that they pulled out of york landing so fast after the tip.

 

[Zella]

Bryer was born in Duncan. Just adding for extra info.

Thank you! I remembered seeing he had moved to Port Alberni as a child but was not sure where he was born.

 

[rickcross]

And where are all of these people going? He said he doesn't go up the road to Byrd...does he go back to Split Lake, I wonder? Gillam looks only to be a km wide at most with maybe 15 streets...

I can only think that most people have one or fewer cars up there. I'd think he runs wives to get groceries or whatever. Each person he drops off will need to be picked up later, so a dozen trips would equal 24 calls in most cases.

 

[Xyzzia]

Its a bit surprising to me that these two have seemed to vanish without a trace. If they are still alive, they instantly became a whole lot more careful all of a sudden? If they are dead, the RCMP should have seen some trace of them or their bodies near gillam given the time and resources that have been allocated there, they should have been able to cover a decent radius by now. I personally am a bit surprised that they pulled out of york landing so fast after the tip.

They could be dead. They could have tried to cross the river, follow the river and got swept in or something. And their bodies could be anywhere

 

[KR72]

I as well have been very troubled by things he has said and implied and his need to be in the spotlight of all these tragic and disturbing events.

CBC on Alberta at noon, July 30, 2019 Judy Aldous has Mike Arntfield, university professor, criminologist and former police officer, on as a one of her guests. He also states that the demeanour of AS is suspicious and questionable.
https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radi...clip/15729637-july-30-the-manhunt-in-manitoba
It is interspersed with some local stuff which is probably of no interest to most here. I enjoy him and think he has an insightful perspective considering his former LE experience.

Many interesting/intriguing things from the interview with Arntfield, too many to mention here, give the interview a listen, he raises sooooo many good points.

Here's some things that I've found particularly interesting so far -

I'm disturbed but not surprised by the the number of messages he's getting from people who support these fugitives. The far-right and white supremacists are indeed a growing threat in this country and my guess (from some things I've read on social media) is that it's mostly these sorts who are "rooting" for BS and KM. He believes that the tip from York Landing was not malicious but cations that some people may deliberately send the police false information in order to help the suspects.

I think Arntfield is correct by saying that this is all impromptu with no real formed plan other than to go on what he refers to as a "murderous odyssey," much like Charles Starkweather and Caril Ann Fugate who were on the run for 60 days and killed 11 people across two states.

He is suspicious of AS and how he speaks of his son posthumously and questions what AS knew or turned a blind eye to before the suspects left Port Alberni. He basically says what many of us here have already agreed upon in that AS's behaviour has become increasingly bizarre the longer this case has dragged on and that AS has a troubling background himself. He also notes the difference between the way KM's family has chosen to handle the situation (by staying quiet and probably cooperating with the police behind the scenes) and AS.

 

[dotr]

VIDEO
Manhunt for B.C. murder suspects enters new chapter as Ontario police probe ‘suspicious’ car

WATCH: The history of record-long manhunts in Canada

 

[otto]

Many interesting/intriguing things from the interview with Arntfield, too many to mention here, give the interview a listen, he raises sooooo many good points.

Here's some things that I've found particularly interesting so far -

I'm disturbed but not surprised by the the number of messages he's getting from people who support these fugitives. The far-right and white supremacists are indeed a growing threat in this country and my guess (from some things I've read on social media) is that it's mostly these sorts who are "rooting" for BS and KM. He believes that the tip from York Landing was not malicious but cations that some people may deliberately send the police false information in order to help the suspects.

I think Arntfield is correct by saying that this is all impromptu with no real formed plan other than to go on what he refers to as a "murderous odyssey," much like Charles Starkweather and Caril Ann Fugate who were on the run for 60 days and killed 11 people across two states.

He is suspicious of AS and how he speaks of his son posthumously and questions what AS knew or turned a blind eye to before the suspects left Port Alberni. He basically says what many of us here have already agreed upon in that AS's behaviour has become increasingly bizarre the longer this case has dragged on and that AS has a troubling background himself. He also notes the difference between the way KM's family has chosen to handle the situation (by staying quiet and probably cooperating with the police behind the scenes) and AS.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to claim that anyone who is "rooting" for the suspects is on the fringe (e.g: politics, racist,etc.). People rooted for Bonnie and Clyde as though they were celebrities in a game of cops and robbers. They were not supremacists, just bored people who lean towards the underdog.

 

[just laxin]

RE: BS’s father, AS

This has been niggling in my brain like a little worm for over a week now so I thought I might as well get it out here and be done with it.

Something has bothered me about AS from the beginning. It might simply be my typical WASP Canadian upbringing (white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant) and I’m just uncomfortable with the public displays of very genuine emotion, but...

In the first interview he does with CHEK tv, AS offers a screenshot of his last text messages with BS (link below).

I’m sure I’m just being an overzealous, pedantic Sleuther here (Sleutheryn?) leaping at anything in the absence of fresh updates, but AS makes a funny use of punctuation that I can’t get out of my head.

Transcription/Summary:
On July 12, BS tells AS he and Kim [sic] are going to Alberta and he won’t have internet.
AS responds about BS taking off after only two paycheques and that AS bought $100 cologne for BS.

Then a day later AS says send photos. No response.
Then a day later AS says hi. No response.
Then a day later AS says hi again. No response.
Then that same day AS texts: Did you get “there” yet.

It’s those quotation marks that keep floating around my head. Why the air quotes? If my kid was heading somewhere, I wouldn’t choose to type the quotation marks.

I’m sure it’s completely nothing so please feel free to heap the abuse on me, but it just feels like that guy you share a secret with who can’t help himself but drop hints to the secret in front of other people.

Anyway, clearly just my overactive and conspiracy-theory bound opinion.

It’s at 0:51.

Father holding out hope after two Port Alberni teens vanish in northern B.C.

That's quite interesting actually, I've never seen that brought up yet! It doesn't seem too normal to use that in normal conversation.

However, the only reasonable thing that I can think of is that since BS wasn't answering AS's messages, AS got worried. So AS may have reached out to/talked to the Grandmother or KM's family and found out from them that BS/KM told them they were going to Yukon instead. Then he messaged BS saying have you got "there" yet, trying to insinuate to BS that AS knows he's not going to Alberta like he told him originally? Just a thought on why you would through that random use of quotations

 

[KR72]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to claim that anyone who is "rooting" for the suspects is on the fringe (e.g: politics, racist,etc.). People rooted for Bonnie and Clyde as though they were celebrities in a game of cops and robbers. They were not supremacists, just bored people who lean towards the underdog.

I didn't say anyone rooting for them is on the fringe but a lot of the people on various social media platforms and in media comment sections were very clear about their leanings. I've even seen MRA demonizing BS's mother and blaming her for emasculating the father and sending BS on his murderous adventure.

 

[Zella]

I agree the quotation marks are weird there, but one thing to keep in mind is a lot of people also don't know how to use them properly and instead use them for emphasis. The results can be unintentionally funny for readers who do know what they mean: "real" meat, "free" gift, etc.

I'd have to see more of AS's writing to guess whether or not he was using them to make a point or just incorrectly.

 

[otto]

I didn't say anyone rooting for them is on the fringe but a lot of the people on various social media platforms and in media comment sections were very clear about their leanings. I've even seen MRA demonizing BS's mother and blaming her for emasculating the father and sending BS on his murderous adventure.

It is not unusual to try to analyze how the suspects arrived at the decision to rob and murder people, and it is common to blame mothers when sons become criminals. Bottom line is that these two young men left their small town on an adventure that included theft, murder, arson and survival. Anyone who is "rooting" for them probably roots for the underdog regardless of the circumstances.

 

[Castlinghigh]

I as well have been very troubled by things he has said and implied and his need to be in the spotlight of all these tragic and disturbing events.

CBC on Alberta at noon, July 30, 2019 Judy Aldous has Mike Arntfield, university professor, criminologist and former police officer, on as a one of her guests. He also states that the demeanour of AS is suspicious and questionable.
https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radi...clip/15729637-july-30-the-manhunt-in-manitoba
It is interspersed with some local stuff which is probably of no interest to most here. I enjoy him and think he has an insightful perspective considering his former LE experience.

wow best interview