Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

[NJSleuth91]

Hi all. Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I don't think the murders had anything to do with drugs. I think it's all exactly what it looks like. Bryer fit the "mass shooting" stereotype to such a degree that it was almost like a parody of what a mass shooter type looks and acts like. From middle school apparently he was telling people that he was going to brutally murder a bunch of people and then kill himself. I think that's exactly what happened.

Kam's involvement is a little more difficult to figure out since the people in his life didn't see any warning signs (not that they publicly mentioned anyway). But he liked a lot of the same Nazi type of interests on social media. Also FWIW I saw a comment on Reddit the other day of someone who was friends with him in middle school. They said he always had an "edgy sense of humor," and that he was always really close to Bryer, and that he was an "insanely loyal" friend and they could definitely see him "helping a friend bury a body." Of course take it with a block of salt because it's a random Reddit comment.

As for where they are, again I think it's all exactly what it looks like. And despite Bryer's dad's issues, I think he was spot on in his assessment of the situation. I think they planned to go to a remote area and kill themselves in the deep woods where nobody would ever find them, just to keep everyone guessing what happened to them. I think they led the police just far enough with a trail of clues -- burning the cars, the sightings where they gave their real names and walked around a store in military gear, etc. -- in order to get national attention on them and turn it into this cinematic thing. I mean, think about it, their other options are life in supermax, shootout with police, dying a horrible death in the wilderness, or living a shell of a life as a fugitive -- to a couple of troubled teenagers, this probably seems like the most cinematic way to go.

 

[Optics]

Probably has been talked about already, but the two missing men on july 17th from bc were how close to the happenings north?

The boys left on the 12th, these other 2 men were last seen the 17th in Surrey, which is at the 'bottom' of the province. BC is similar in length to California - it takes at least a straight 24 hrs driving from south border of BC to Northern border areas where murders took place. Not connected.

 

[Kittybunny]

Being thoroughly unfamiliar with the vast wilds of Canada, I have little to offer in the way of anything useful in regards to insights as to where they have been and where they are going, but I do believe that this was planned, at least to a large extent. I think "going to find jobs" was just a cover story and this spree was what they had in mind all along. Things that make me believe that are the burned vehicles and multiple victims. A robbery gone bad once, an accidental fire of a car, eh, maybe, but given what we know about BS obsession with violence I'm going to go out on a limb and say they have likely been fantasizing about committing these kinds of crimes for a long time. Why this way, rather than a mass shooting or something, it must appeal to the survivalist thing - it's a game to them.

The other thing I will say is how sad and concerned this makes me for our dear neighbors to the North. I always think of Canadians as just the nicest folks, peaceful and immune from this sort of violence, and I can imagine how jarring and shocking this must be. Like us Americans, at least me, are so used to it, I honestly have become numb - like the Garlic Festival Shooting, I was just like, "Oh, only 3 people died, that's not bad." I feel like you Canadians are too innocent for this sort of thing, eh? (Not meant to perpetuate any Canadian stereotypes, I just love my Canadian friends so much!)

 

[scrappinkat]

It seems that most thought is directed towards the suspects moving north and east. Could they believe they could fool those searching by heading back to BC, or even the Island? I haven't heard this angle and am wondering what the thoughts be on this scenario?

The risk of being caught while trying to return to the Island is just to great, I think they must realize that so I can’t imagine them even trying. East seems more likely to me.

 

[-Magnum.]

Being thoroughly unfamiliar with the vast wilds of Canada, I have little to offer in the way of anything useful in regards to insights as to where they have been and where they are going, but I do believe that this was planned, at least to a large extent. I think "going to find jobs" was just a cover story and this spree was what they had in mind all along. Things that make me believe that are the burned vehicles and multiple victims. A robbery gone bad once, an accidental fire of a car, eh, maybe, but given what we know about BS obsession with violence I'm going to go out on a limb and say they have likely been fantasizing about committing these kinds of crimes for a long time. Why this way, rather than a mass shooting or something, it must appeal to the survivalist thing - it's a game to them.

The other thing I will say is how sad and concerned this makes me for our dear neighbors to the North. I always think of Canadians as just the nicest folks, peaceful and immune from this sort of violence, and I can imagine how jarring and shocking this must be. Like us Americans, at least me, are so used to it, I honestly have become numb - like the Garlic Festival Shooting, I was just like, "Oh, only 3 people died, that's not bad." I feel like you Canadians are too innocent for this sort of thing, eh? (Not meant to perpetuate any Canadian stereotypes, I just love my Canadian friends so much!)

Fair assumptions. If only Canada was such a fairy tale as you make it out to be. We have had our fair share of serial killers, gruesome murderers, & man hunts, obviously not to the extent of our less fortunate neighbors, but I wouldn't say this is much of a "shock". None the less, it is not everyday we hear about two teenage boys evading authorities on a nation-wide manhunt across 3 provinces, I am extremely curious to how this situation will unfold.

 

[Cdndadeh]

Theory of the day...

They stop when they see the van with the intent of something little more vanilla, steal gas, raid van unaware of the occupants, the you know what hits the fan, things escalate BS pulls a gun (possibly unknown to KM) kills the couple!

Kam’s instincts take over to protect his Best buddy and the rest is a trail across Canada vanishing into thin air.

Only reason I struggle with this is in the video neither of them look banged up, cuts scratches or bruises.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Hi all. Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

Kam's involvement is a little more difficult to figure out since the people in his life didn't see any warning signs (not that they publicly mentioned anyway). But he liked a lot of the same Nazi type of interests on social media. Also FWIW I saw a comment on Reddit the other day of someone who was friends with him in middle school. They said he always had an "edgy sense of humor," and that he was always really close to Bryer, and that he was an "insanely loyal" friend and they could definitely see him "helping a friend bury a body." Of course take it with a block of salt because it's a random Reddit comment.

go.

SOMEBODY...please show me verified sources for all the Nazi interests that these two supposedly had? I have also seen stories that BS had equal interest in Communist ideology, yet that seems to be overlooked very conveniently. Quite honestly, until someone can post verified news stories that demonstrate first hand evidence of this, it's BS (and I'm not referring to the suspect).

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Theory of the day...

They stop when they see the van with the intent of something little more vanilla, steal gas, raid van unaware of the occupants, the you know what hits the fan, things escalate BS pulls a gun (possibly unknown to KM) kills the couple!

Kam’s instincts take over to protect his Best buddy and the rest is a trail across Canada vanishing into thin air.

Only reason I struggle with this is in the video neither of them look banged up, cuts scratches or bruises.

Sounds very much like this theory could have been lifted right of the Millard/Smich script!

 

[Optics]

Lying to family members is strong evidence to me the two lack moral boundaries so comes the next question, what were they up to?

I absolutely agree with you, and imho that is demonstrated by the Cold Lake incident where the man who pulled them out and some of the word exchange from Kam and the man who helped them.

 

[scrappinkat]

Probably has been talked about already, but the two missing men on july 17th from bc were how close to the happenings north?

Logan Lake to Dease Lake is about a 17 hour drive. Logan Lake to Liard Hot Springs is about an 18ish hour drive.

 

[Gina20]

The boys left on the 12th, these other 2 men were last seen the 17th in Surrey, which is at the 'bottom' of the province. BC is similar in length to California - it takes at least a straight 24 hrs driving from south border of BC to Northern border areas where murders took place. Not connected.

Not saying they were involved in those disappearances. I am pointing out what goes on along those routes. Many pass through on those highways, but some have business along the way.

Leaving open the possibility that the federal Public Safety Minister got involved for reasons we may not understand yet, if ever. It is difficult to provide examples of instances of manhunts when the Public Safety Minister gets involved, because the position is a relatively new one, consolidating other titles.

 

[gitana1]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to claim that anyone who is "rooting" for the suspects is on the fringe (e.g: politics, racist,etc.). People rooted for Bonnie and Clyde as though they were celebrities in a game of cops and robbers. They were not supremacists, just bored people who lean towards the underdog.

No. People didn't root for Bonnie and Clyde because they were bored. They rooted for them because they were viewed as symbols of beating the oppressors during a deep economic depression.

 

[Gina20]

The risk of being caught while trying to return to the Island is just to great, I think they must realize that so I can’t imagine them even trying. East seems more likely to me.

They would have to take a ferry, boat or plane to get to the island. People are watching now.

 

[Gina20]

No. People didn't root for Bonnie and Clyde because they were bored. They rooted for them because they were viewed as symbols of beating the oppressors during a deep economic depression.

Like Robin Hood at the time.

 

[10ofRods]

I agree the quotation marks are weird there, but one thing to keep in mind is a lot of people also don't know how to use them properly and instead use them for emphasis. The results can be unintentionally funny for readers who do know what they mean: "real" meat, "free" gift, etc.

I'd have to see more of AS's writing to guess whether or not he was using them to make a point or just incorrectly.

That's how I read it, but why emphasize "there"? (At least he didn't spell it "their," ha). It implies there was a specific destination (and that it was special somehow). Or...perhaps, it is a kind of parental thing. Are you there yet (where you are supposed to be? How long is this going to take? kind of thing). If the "there" is a place with cell service, then...Dad is starting to worry?

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Again, where did I say that every person cheering these two on is far-right? In my original quote, I said many supportive comments come from those on the far right (and that I find that disturbing - and I stand by that). The alt-right types that are publicly supporting this duo have glommed on to this particular case because of BS's fondness for Hitler. Check out their twitter/facebook profiles and you'll see that they're very proud of their disturbing beliefs.

People/society tends to blame mothers for the actions of their adult sons, you're correct and that's not uncommon, but the MRA/redpill types have been vocal on this situation as well and claim that BS and his father are victims of the mother. Disturbing stuff.

On social media, I've seen antifa types supporting these young men because they despise law enforcement. They want to see these two men evade police.

 

[Gina20]

Being thoroughly unfamiliar with the vast wilds of Canada, I have little to offer in the way of anything useful in regards to insights as to where they have been and where they are going, but I do believe that this was planned, at least to a large extent. I think "going to find jobs" was just a cover story and this spree was what they had in mind all along. Things that make me believe that are the burned vehicles and multiple victims. A robbery gone bad once, an accidental fire of a car, eh, maybe, but given what we know about BS obsession with violence I'm going to go out on a limb and say they have likely been fantasizing about committing these kinds of crimes for a long time. Why this way, rather than a mass shooting or something, it must appeal to the survivalist thing - it's a game to them.

The other thing I will say is how sad and concerned this makes me for our dear neighbors to the North. I always think of Canadians as just the nicest folks, peaceful and immune from this sort of violence, and I can imagine how jarring and shocking this must be. Like us Americans, at least me, are so used to it, I honestly have become numb - like the Garlic Festival Shooting, I was just like, "Oh, only 3 people died, that's not bad." I feel like you Canadians are too innocent for this sort of thing, eh? (Not meant to perpetuate any Canadian stereotypes, I just love my Canadian friends so much!)

There may have been a bigger plan that includes what you mentioned. We have had such things, too.

Thank you for your kind thoughts. No nation wants this. Our population is smaller and more spread out.

 

[10ofRods]

Hi Judy!

I really have no idea how the criminal justice system works in Canada. Is it vastly different than in America?

The reason I ask is because a DA in the states can only charged 2nd degree murder, and if its elevated to first degree murder it must go to a GJ to make that determination.

Also there are a few states like NY, iirc, where they only file first degree murder charges if the victims are certain individuals like police officers, elected officials, etc... Even though they have plenty of other murderers that premeditated the murder of their victims, but were still only charged with 2nd degree when in most all other states it would be first degree.

TIA

JMHO

This is not true throughout the USA (about Grand Juries). In California, only crimes involving public malfeasance go to Grand Juries. A charge can be elevated by the local county DA at any time, on behalf of the State of California. Each state in the US has different laws regarding this (and also the filing of first degree murder charges). California DA's have strong influence over those filings and it's certainly not limited to public officials. There are several other states like California, IIRC.

We'd work our GJ's into the ground here, if we had them do this kind of thing.

 

[gitana1]

Hi all. Long-time lurker, first-time poster.

I don't think the murders had anything to do with drugs. I think it's all exactly what it looks like. Bryer fit the "mass shooting" stereotype to such a degree that it was almost like a parody of what a mass shooter type looks and acts like. From middle school apparently he was telling people that he was going to brutally murder a bunch of people and then kill himself. I think that's exactly what happened.

Kam's involvement is a little more difficult to figure out since the people in his life didn't see any warning signs (not that they publicly mentioned anyway). But he liked a lot of the same Nazi type of interests on social media. Also FWIW I saw a comment on Reddit the other day of someone who was friends with him in middle school. They said he always had an "edgy sense of humor," and that he was always really close to Bryer, and that he was an "insanely loyal" friend and they could definitely see him "helping a friend bury a body." Of course take it with a block of salt because it's a random Reddit comment.

As for where they are, again I think it's all exactly what it looks like. And despite Bryer's dad's issues, I think he was spot on in his assessment of the situation. I think they planned to go to a remote area and kill themselves in the deep woods where nobody would ever find them, just to keep everyone guessing what happened to them. I think they led the police just far enough with a trail of clues -- burning the cars, the sightings where they gave their real names and walked around a store in military gear, etc. -- in order to get national attention on them and turn it into this cinematic thing. I mean, think about it, their other options are life in supermax, shootout with police, dying a horrible death in the wilderness, or living a shell of a life as a fugitive -- to a couple of troubled teenagers, this probably seems like the most cinematic way to go.

Thanks for posting! I agree totally.

 

[minorone]

SOMEBODY...please show me verified sources for all the Nazi interests that these two supposedly had? I have also seen stories that BS had equal interest in Communist ideology, yet that seems to be overlooked very conveniently. Quite honestly, until someone can post verified news stories that demonstrate first hand evidence of this, it's BS (and I'm not referring to the suspect).

It was in their social media accounts which have since been closed and are inaccessible. They were available for perhaps the first week.