Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #10

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The RCMP statement about partial retreat yesterday from Gillam along with altering their resource allocation in the region seemed like a definitive statement, but do any of the Canadians on here think that this is just a tactic being used by RCMP to get the 2 suspects to feel more relaxed and then hope they make a mistake?

Seems reasonable but if they're out there isolated in the woods in Gillam though, how would they know anything the RCMP is saying in the media? They'd need internet or radio service or something like that to get that information. Unless of course they aren't out in the wilderness or somehow do have access to any of that.
jmo
 
My husband actually used to work on this kind of technology. It's much harder than you think.



That's exactly why I think it's what happened. Most of these spree killers are looking for infamy. You know troubled, loner teenagers from a down-and-out town especially would have reason to try to reach "legend" status, and considering they were "raised by the internet," on the internet (especially the 4chan kind of communities they were probably part of) a lot of times fame and infamy are the same thing. If they had committed the murders, torched the victims' van and escaped, they would have easily gotten away with it but nobody would know who they were. They clearly wanted people to know they were the killers. If they had killed themselves in an area where they would be found, or been killed by police, nobody would care about this news story after a few days. Life as a fugitive sucks and they could be captured at any time, thus shattering the illusion of them as mastermind criminals. By killing themselves where they could never be found, it gives a ton of attention to them, and always leaves the question open of "what if they really did escape?" Plus they obviously didn't value their own lives (or other peoples' for that matter) very much anyway since they threw them away that easily.

Agree. Now they have infamy. I do think they are dead due to the environment.

Think of Matt Sweat and the other guy who escaped from upper NY prison. They were seasoned criminals and couldn’t survive out there.
 
And yet there's about 600 pages of posts on this website alone talking about it, and it's all over the news over two weeks later. I would argue it's not even the crimes that are capturing peoples' attention. It's the mystery of the search, the total remoteness of the area they went to, not knowing if they're alive or dead, and so on. Even Bryer's dad's crazy interviews are a part of it, although I don't think that was intentional on his part (his interview was how my interest in this case was captured, because it was so unusual). Or who knows, maybe it was part of the plan and maybe Bryer predicted his dad would act that way, especially with that "book" he wrote just days before the murders.

Here there is... but if you look in the places where people frequent that are more likely to be among the pool of potential copy cats... you'll see very little mention of this. But - you'll still see daily threads on things like the shooter in NZ or that guy that recently killed the Twitch girl and so on...
 
Seems reasonable but if they're out there isolated in the woods in Gillam though, how would they know anything the RCMP is saying in the media? They'd need internet or radio service or something like that to get that information. Unless of course they aren't out in the wilderness or somehow do have access to any of that.
jmo

Shortwave carries for very long distances.
 
ETA: Hmmm.... harsh words or harsh reality?

This reporter has been on location/boots on the ground reporting from day one.

Not aware of Chief Constant citing in the evening hours the fugitives captured -- maybe this was on social media? I recall he referred people to FB.

And finally-- there was no truth to RCMP deployed with "non-working radios." Officer could not reach his radio and fired into the ground.


https://www.9news.com.au/world/lucas-fowler-murder-hunt-
for-fugitives-kam-mcleod-bryer-schmegelsky-questions-linger-sighting-news-canada/8c183e5e-d8cc-4b21-adfb-badf93dc6f11


AUS 8/2/19

[...]

When I travelled to York Landing the following day while police were still on the ground searching, I spoke to another Bear Clan Patrol volunteer, Danielle McMaster. This was our interview:

AD: How certain was your other volunteer that this was the two suspects?
DANIELLE: We're not too certain at all, we've just seen two individuals from the back.
AD: And one was wearing a camouflage shirt?
DANIELLE: Yes
AD: How do you guys feel about the sighting?
DANIELLE: We're pretty excited. We're hoping it's them and we can catch them.


[...]

The narrative sounds slightly different from one account to another. When I was trying to ascertain the exact location of the sighting from the volunteers and the community's Chief Leroy Constant, I heard it described as at the garbage dump, near the garbage dump, rummaging through the garbage dump and between the garbage dump and water treatment plant. Mixed messages can of course happen via Chinese whispers when it comes to witness accounts, but it is worth noting.

Other things don't feel right. When I asked Danielle how she felt about her fellow volunteer possibly spotting these two, she said she felt 'pretty excited'. That is an odd response from someone who believes two suspected triple murderers are in the vicinity. Rattled? Yes. Shocked? Yes. Surprised? Yes. Hopeful of a breakthrough? Absolutely.
Excited?

The other thing that doesn't smell right is the way the reported sighting was handled by the community's Chief, Leroy Constant. In the evening hours after the sighting was called in, Constant declared that the two fugitives had been captured. That spread inaccurate information like wildfire across social media, even prompting some Australian media to start reporting the incorrect information. It was incorrect, police had not captured McLeod and Schmegelsky. bbm

The Bear Clan Patrol volunteers have a uniform with an emblem and their name on it. Currently, their group has over 375 members who work on a volunteering basis. They describe themselves as "a community-based solution to crime prevention, providing a sense of safety, solidarity and belonging to both its members and to the communities they serve".

From the outside looking in, they appear to be a vigilante group taking social issues into their own hands. When I interviewed Bear Clan Patrol volunteer Wade Taylor, he tells me, "We are there to help the community in Winnipeg in rough areas, we help people who are in trouble and we also stop people who are being aggressive."

The group has somewhat of a political motivation. On their page [], they explain why they were established.

"Our community recognizes that Indigenous people once had their own territory, language and culture - vibrant and cohesive social, economic and political systems held together by a spiritual worldview and a sacred responsibility to Mother Earth and all of creation ... With consciousness comes awareness, with awareness comes ownership of personal circumstances, and with collaboration comes change. It is within the context of this approach that the Bear Clan Patrol has been mobilized."

And yet despite all the resources thrown into searching York Landing immediately after the tip off, nothing was found. One police officer told me their sniffer dog was on the ground so quickly that afternoon, there is no way the pair wouldn't have been sniffed out if they were indeed in that forest they reportedly ran into. Not only that, they deployed air resources with infrared capabilities to look over the area and saw nothing. It just doesn't make sense. These two suspects can't just disappear into thin air.

As for locals who reported hearing gunshots, I later found out there were only two gunshots fired. They were from a tactical officer's firearm who fired into the ground. He had become separated from his team and he couldn't reach for his radio, so it was his way of communicating to his peers where he was in the bush. bbm

The end result of this promising tip-off was a total letdown. Manitoba police confirmed they can't corroborate the tip, and so they pulled their resources out and went back to the drawing board in Gillam. And now, they're sadly starting to phase out resources from Gillam itself.

There are several explanations for the false alarm in York Landing and I'm not going to spell them out. Whatever happened, every hour counts on the clock when a nationwide manhunt of this importance is underway.

And given it turned out to be nothing, Kam Mcleod and Bryer Schmegelsky are now another 12 hours ahead of the police. If they're alive, that is.
 
The problem there is that they didn't do anything particularly interesting...

They killed an old man and took his car and maybe robbed him... then killed a couple whose car had broken down and stole $50 or something... and vanished. In this era of social media and crimes with a much greater public impact, they'll be forgotten in a few months.

I think the "vanished" part is what would be interesting to people with similar ideologies.
 
So that's really how kids in Canada tend to run around looking like? That kind of outfit is common at the mall up there? Seems odd to me. Someone mentioned as much and I'm not familiar with Canada so I have to take them at their word but it seems quite odd and I note the Canadian media seems to be highlighting his "look" as well, which indicates to me that it's not that common up there either.

I don't know. I really do think there were multiple, varied signs that these two had some issues and were more prone to murder than the average kid their age. I don't think the RCMP is likely to have gotten this wrong and that these are just two innocent kids caught up in something bigger than themselves.

it is definitely not common up here

ETA: I thought you were referring to Nazi wear but now see you meant camoflauge - still not common but I do see it and it does stand out to me
 
Last edited:
@Seattle1, I question the veracity of the article's claim about Chief Constant. I never remember him spreading rumors or claiming they had been caught. I distinctly remember him trying to combat that rumor and urging people to be vigilant and stay indoors because the rumors were not true. He was posting updates on Facebook page, which were visible to the public and remain so.
 
And yet there's about 600 pages of posts on this website alone talking about it, and it's all over the news over two weeks later. I would argue it's not even the crimes that are capturing peoples' attention. It's the mystery of the search, the total remoteness of the area they went to, not knowing if they're alive or dead, and so on. Even Bryer's dad's crazy interviews are a part of it, although I don't think that was intentional on his part (his interview was how my interest in this case was captured, because it was so unusual). Or who knows, maybe it was part of the plan and maybe Bryer predicted his dad would act that way, especially with that "book" he wrote just days before the murders.

We're talking about it because we're interested, we want to know what happened. The media is talking about because its news, they need to make $$$.
Otherwise, the crimes aren't anything special or super famous. 3 people are dead and these guys run, its not really anything big or amazing.

How many people are shot dead in Toronto? Hell a shooting happened with suspects running in what was described as "a dark car" just yesterday.

They didn't get much fame or infamy with this stunt. Just "another statistic". Paul Bernardo, Robert Pickton are more famous/infamous.

Especially with all the crime in BC and the Highway of Tears these guys will be forgotten much faster than anyone anticipates.
 
We're talking about it because we're interested, we want to know what happened. The media is talking about because its news, they need to make $$$.
Otherwise, the crimes aren't anything special or super famous. 3 people are dead and these guys run, its not really anything big or amazing.

How many people are shot dead in Toronto? Hell a shooting happened with suspects running in what was described as "a dark car" just yesterday.

They didn't get much fame or infamy with this stunt. Just "another statistic". Paul Bernardo, Robert Pickton are more famous/infamous.

Especially with all the crime in BC and the Highway of Tears these guys will be forgotten much faster than anyone anticipates.

I mean, you could say that of most mass shooters and spree killers. And yet mass shootings and spree killings still keep happening. Clearly whatever infamy they're getting is worth it to these kinds of people. If the killing alone was their only motive, they would have been more strategic about it, like Israel Keyes. They certainly got more fame/infamy then they likely ever would have gotten any other way, and that's probably good enough for them.
 


I find this super interesting. He went missing the day before the RAV4 burned + he's 18 years old. I tried to look up his facebook, but the name is so common + I'm not good at that. I wonder if he was a gamer with them possibly? He may have just taken off, but I think it's worth exploring IMO.

This is a small town, here are the stats: Thompson (Manitoba, Canada) - Population Statistics, Charts, Map, Location, Weather and Web Information
 
ETA: Hmmm.... harsh words or harsh reality?

This reporter has been on location/boots on the ground reporting from day one.

Not aware of Chief Constant citing in the evening hours the fugitives captured -- maybe this was on social media? I recall he referred people to FB.

And finally-- there was no truth to RCMP deployed with "non-working radios." Officer could not reach his radio and fired into the ground.


https://www.9news.com.au/world/lucas-fowler-murder-hunt-
for-fugitives-kam-mcleod-bryer-schmegelsky-questions-linger-sighting-news-canada/8c183e5e-d8cc-4b21-adfb-badf93dc6f11


AUS 8/2/19

[...]

When I travelled to York Landing the following day while police were still on the ground searching, I spoke to another Bear Clan Patrol volunteer, Danielle McMaster. This was our interview:

AD: How certain was your other volunteer that this was the two suspects?
DANIELLE: We're not too certain at all, we've just seen two individuals from the back.
AD: And one was wearing a camouflage shirt?
DANIELLE: Yes
AD: How do you guys feel about the sighting?
DANIELLE: We're pretty excited. We're hoping it's them and we can catch them.


[...]

The narrative sounds slightly different from one account to another. When I was trying to ascertain the exact location of the sighting from the volunteers and the community's Chief Leroy Constant, I heard it described as at the garbage dump, near the garbage dump, rummaging through the garbage dump and between the garbage dump and water treatment plant. Mixed messages can of course happen via Chinese whispers when it comes to witness accounts, but it is worth noting.

Other things don't feel right. When I asked Danielle how she felt about her fellow volunteer possibly spotting these two, she said she felt 'pretty excited'. That is an odd response from someone who believes two suspected triple murderers are in the vicinity. Rattled? Yes. Shocked? Yes. Surprised? Yes. Hopeful of a breakthrough? Absolutely.
Excited?

The other thing that doesn't smell right is the way the reported sighting was handled by the community's Chief, Leroy Constant. In the evening hours after the sighting was called in, Constant declared that the two fugitives had been captured. That spread inaccurate information like wildfire across social media, even prompting some Australian media to start reporting the incorrect information. It was incorrect, police had not captured McLeod and Schmegelsky. bbm

The Bear Clan Patrol volunteers have a uniform with an emblem and their name on it. Currently, their group has over 375 members who work on a volunteering basis. They describe themselves as "a community-based solution to crime prevention, providing a sense of safety, solidarity and belonging to both its members and to the communities they serve".

From the outside looking in, they appear to be a vigilante group taking social issues into their own hands. When I interviewed Bear Clan Patrol volunteer Wade Taylor, he tells me, "We are there to help the community in Winnipeg in rough areas, we help people who are in trouble and we also stop people who are being aggressive."

The group has somewhat of a political motivation. On their ******** page [***], they explain why they were established.

"Our community recognizes that Indigenous people once had their own territory, language and culture - vibrant and cohesive social, economic and political systems held together by a spiritual worldview and a sacred responsibility to Mother Earth and all of creation ... With consciousness comes awareness, with awareness comes ownership of personal circumstances, and with collaboration comes change. It is within the context of this approach that the Bear Clan Patrol has been mobilized."

And yet despite all the resources thrown into searching York Landing immediately after the tip off, nothing was found. One police officer told me their sniffer dog was on the ground so quickly that afternoon, there is no way the pair wouldn't have been sniffed out if they were indeed in that forest they reportedly ran into. Not only that, they deployed air resources with infrared capabilities to look over the area and saw nothing. It just doesn't make sense. These two suspects can't just disappear into thin air.

As for locals who reported hearing gunshots, I later found out there were only two gunshots fired. They were from a tactical officer's firearm who fired into the ground. He had become separated from his team and he couldn't reach for his radio, so it was his way of communicating to his peers where he was in the bush. bbm

The end result of this promising tip-off was a total letdown. Manitoba police confirmed they can't corroborate the tip, and so they pulled their resources out and went back to the drawing board in Gillam. And now, they're sadly starting to phase out resources from Gillam itself.

There are several explanations for the false alarm in York Landing and I'm not going to spell them out. Whatever happened, every hour counts on the clock when a nationwide manhunt of this importance is underway.

And given it turned out to be nothing, Kam Mcleod and Bryer Schmegelsky are now another 12 hours ahead of the police. If they're alive, that is.

The political and social context of the Bear Clan Patrol is clearly out of reach for this woman. Stick to what you know, Alex.
 
RCMP did not withhold the names of the suspects and falsely announce that they were missing as a ruse. They were missing, their truck was found burning and RCMP had no idea whether there was a connection between the three murders and whether the suspects were victims on July 19.

July 21 their status was changed from missing to suspects. On July 22, the Rav4 was found burning in Manitoba, and on July 23/24 the unidentified man at Dease Lake was identified.

RCMP and military have withdrawn from York Landing and Gillam, other than leaving 20 officers in place. I don't think it's a tactic. I think it's a fact that the suspects are not in Gillam or York Landing. Because the residents of those small towns are fearful, officers are in place to help them feel safe.

On the paperwork dated July 24 that charges them with second degree murder of the man near Dease Lake the victim is listed as John Doe. Would they list him as John Doe if they knew who he was but hadn’t managed to inform the family?
 
No. You could be charged with Manslaughter if you "accidentally" ran over and killed someone.

RCMP didn't charge them with First Degree Murder because they probably didn't plan ahead to murder Leonard Dyck specifically.

They are facing Second Degree Murder charges, not theft of the vehicle.

Yeah I know What they are charged with.
If you were trying to steal a car and you hit someone who tried to stand in front thinking it might stop you.
Probably 2nd degree murder rather than manslaughter as that would not be an accident.
 
It was about on the 24th when a reporter first spoke to AS. AS claimed he’d got a text from his son indicating they were going to Red Deer, Alberta to look for work. That would’ve been about the 14th, possibly even prior to the murder of L and C. Regardless, Red Deer is no where near the Alaskan Highway.

Obviously by now the RCMP know much more about the background of the two than we do, who they hung out with, and any prior brushes with police as juveniles. They’d have been aware of this information very soon after the truck and camper was found burning.

But about the evasiveness to family members - Did they just decide to quit their Walmart jobs and lie and steal to finance living in Northern BC while pretending to job hunt? Considering LE has named them suspects in three murders and they chose not to come forth while they were first known to be missing, IMO they don’t deserve any benefit of doubt whatsoever. They were up to something they didn’t want to declare, right from the very onset of leaving their homes in Port Alberni.

Maybe what they were up was just trying to run away from home.
 
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