Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #11

[katydid23]

I wish they could find them, just to give some finality. And for their parent's sakes too.

 

[otto]

There is a sizable police operation in Ontario at the moment too. Possibly more officers dedicated there than in Gillam now since they scaled back. Canadian press has published some speculation too. I would say part of the reason some Australian outlets have published unverified information is that not all outlets had a presence in Gillam and if RCMP refuses to talk then who else can they go off?

Bottom line is that the Ontario tips / sightings could not be confirmed, York Landing could not be confirmed, the last known location is the burned vehicle and then poof - nothing. That means we wait until there is something.

 

[SnooperDuper]

There is a sizable police operation in Ontario at the moment too. Possibly more officers dedicated there than in Gillam now since they scaled back. Canadian press has published some speculation too. I would say part of the reason some Australian outlets have published unverified information is that not all outlets had a presence in Gillam and if RCMP refuses to talk then who else can they go off?

I'm in Ontario and there is no "sizable police operation" here, there are simply so many rumours that they have had to place ONE officer in charge of the rumour mill.

Aussie press does not have a presence here, have not sent people here, so it is ok for them to publish any third-hand or social media gossip because they won't put the resources into decent (quality, moral) reporting? It is never ok to publish unverified information. The behaviour of the Aussie press is abhorrent.

 

[PNZ]

Check CBC links in first page for slightly different comment about that call or text. Anyway, they probably misled grandma about being in Yukon on July 13/14.

Sorry, I didn't find the CBC link you mentioned but you're probably correct in that the Grandma was mislead or mistaken or something. Doesn't seem there is any real evidence that says they made it to Whitehorse.

 

[Gina20]

It is to be expected that media from Australia will cover a story about one of their citizens murdered abroad. Like it or not, and despite differences, this is part of the job for PR officials from the RCMP.

Likewise, American media had every right to be in Canada to cover the story.

 

[kmclaren]

Yes and so did Kam Mcleod which many fail to realize. Both of them were in alternative school

Both? Are you sure? Because this article had stated that Kam attended "regular" high school in Port Alberni.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...c-teens-subject-of-national-manhunt-1.5222515

>>CBC News has confirmed that McLeod recently attended Alberni District Secondary School. It's unclear if Schmegelsky also went there.<<

 

[Jen-Knee]

It's always possible that they were still heading towards the Yukon when they came across Chynna and Lucas. It's a long drive through BC heading north, especially if you're not used to it. If Kam was the only one driving up to that point then he probably needed the rest. The canyon is really hot during the summer, and there is a lot to see. They may have been taking their time, enjoying their newfound freedom.

 

[SnooperDuper]

It is to be expected that media from Australia will cover a story about one of their citizens murdered abroad. Like it or not, and despite differences, this is part of the job for PR officials from the RCMP.

Likewise, American media had every right to be in Canada to cover the story.

Yes, all press has a right to cover the story but not make things up. Every day on the news in Ontario here is a segment on the manhunt in Gillam - and nothing about the fugitives being here at all.

 

[dameagatha]

Both? Are you sure? Because this article had stated that Kam attended "regular" high school in Port Alberni.

>>CBC News has confirmed that McLeod recently attended Alberni District Secondary School. It's unclear if Schmegelsky also went there.<<

“Alberni District Secondary School, which the two both attended, is pictured above.”
Google Streetview
Source: Vancouver Sun

What we know about Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky, 2 teens who launched a manhunt after they were named as suspects in 3 killings in Canada

 

[SnooperDuper]

Renata D'Aliesio on Twitter
There is no police communications person on the ground in Gillam for the manhunt, which makes obtaining information on the search challenging at times for the media here. The incident commanders have been generous with their time, but they're also very busy #Canadamanhunt

 

[PNZ]

Apologies if this has been discussed already somewhere, I'm still catching up on some of the details ...

Has there been any information released that actually connects KM and BS to the murders of LF and CD? Is there something that puts them at that murder scene? I assume that they have been formally charged with the murder of Mr. Dyck because they were driving his vehicle so there is clearly a connection; they are still 'suspects' in the LF /CD murder because a link between them and that crime is not as clear. I am not 100% convinced that they were involved in that crime. Has the 'person of interest' that was seen speaking to (arguing with?) Mr. Fowler ever been identified and/or located?

 

[kmclaren]

So neither of them attended an alternative school? Who ever started that rumour then?

“Alberni District Secondary School, which the two both attended, is pictured above.”
Google Streetview
Source: Vancouver Sun

What we know about Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky, 2 teens who launched a manhunt after they were named as suspects in 3 killings in Canada

 

[MistyWaters]

“Alberni District Secondary School, which the two both attended, is pictured above.”
Google Streetview
Source: Vancouver Sun

What we know about Kam McLeod and Bryer Schmegelsky, 2 teens who launched a manhunt after they were named as suspects in 3 killings in Canada

From your link and on the topic of contradictory information, this map indicates the RAV4 was found after authorities released information that the suspects may be in the Gillam area, both occurring on July 23rd.

 

[MistyWaters]

So neither of them attended an alternative school? Who ever started that rumour then?

Did they attend secondary school throughout grade 12? I think we just don’t know.

 

[Arizona 123]

The dynamics of the boat damage were discussed a few pages back, with people (me included) hoping a physicist would weigh in. Seeing as none has, I'll give it a shot, though physics is only my hobby, not my profession. Further, I've done a fair amount of whitewater rafting, plus have small boat experience at sea. I am NOT an expert, though, so please take what I'm about to say with a dose of salt.

That Jon boat could easily carry carry several people, or several hundred pounds, on FLAT water. That's what they are made for. What they are not made for is rough water, such as swells. The reason is leverage. If you placed that boat on sawhorses on dry land, one each end, and attempted to load a few hundred pounds in the middle, it would fold, in much the same way as we see in the photos of it. The reason is leverage; with no support except at the ends, it's not a boat, but a bridge.

Calculating how much force would be needed to bend the boat is beyond my abilities, due to me not knowing the strength of the formed aluminum. However, it can't be a lot, due to the softness of aluminum plus the manufacturer's warnings regarding this issue. What I can do, though, is show what the forces would be if two 150lb guys, sitting amidships, attempted to ride through a hydraulic standing wave. Basically, the boat would only be supported at the ends, just as if it was on sawhorses. If we discount inertia for a moment and use only weight, the calculation is a simple leverage force calc; amidships to the end is 5 ft. (10 ft boat) but due to load spreading 4ft will do as a rule of thumb. So, you've got 300lbs sitting in the middle of a roughly 8 foot long "bridge", made of aluminum sheet.

It is unlikely that the boat is strong enough to support that. However, we're ignoring inertia thus far. A wave at the beach is a good analogy (just a different reference frame; at the beach, the wave is moving and you are not. In a rapid, you are moving the wave is not). Ir you head direction into a beach wave in a raft, the bow goes up first, coming up and back. You feel acceleration. Whenever mass is accelerated, you increase force (a mass accelerating at 2G weighs twice as much as one accelerating at 1G). Sitting still on Earth's surface, you feel 1g, an acceleration of 31 feet per second squared. Double it, and your weight doubles too. Long story short, the effective weight of the load would increase as the boat hits a wave, be it either a deep trough or a breaker. And the boat at that point would be utterly unsupported in the middle. It would fold.

However, what this means in practice, in a shelf rapid as Lower Limestone appears to be, is that we can be pretty sure the boat was not empty. But, if it was already swamped, the effect would be roughly the same. (an empty boat could have been swamped upon entering the rapid.)

IMHO, the key here will be forensics. How long has the boat been in the water? Was there any DNA recoverable from the water jug one news outlet reported? Will the boat owner come forward to say how long it might have been missing?

My guess; it's possible, though not probable, that the boat is related to the suspects. The RAV4 burn location, however, was very, very convenient (a hundred yards or so) to a rail line used for both freight and passenger trains. (the former are very easy to jump aboard while moving slow, as they would have to do in that area due to track curve radius and unevenness). If I had to bet, I'd bet on the rail option, but I would not give long odds.

 

[SnooperDuper]

"McLeod was pictured in a graduation supplement published in the July 4, 2018, edition of the Alberni Valley News. It listed him as having graduated from the Eighth Avenue Learning Centre, which provides an alternative and more individualized learning model."

If you ‘inadvertently’ helped two suspected killers escape, please come forward, RCMP urge

 

[MistyWaters]

CBC is reporting that there were no new leads from the dives.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/rcmp-underwater-divers-pull-out-1.5236600

A nice way of her saying “that’s it for today folks!”.

@RenataDAliesio
32m

Manitoba RCMP are not releasing further details about today's search. Police information from communications dept in Winnipeg has been limited these past two days. @meltait and I will let you know what we see on the ground tomorrow #Canadamanhunt #canadianmanhunt

 

[dameagatha]

"McLeod was pictured in a graduation supplement published in the July 4, 2018, edition of the Alberni Valley News. It listed him as having graduated from the Eighth Avenue Learning Centre, which provides an alternative and more individualized learning model."

If you ‘inadvertently’ helped two suspected killers escape, please come forward, RCMP urge

Thanks — good photo & specific name of school.

It isn’t clear if this is high school or supplemental tutoring in addition to high school.

 

[Gina20]

Yes, all press has a right to cover the story but not make things up. Every day on the news in Ontario here is a segment on the manhunt in Gillam - and nothing about the fugitives being here at all.

There's an old saying in PR that you can only control what you say, and not what other people do with what you say.

I recall a once-respected MSM outlet in Canada calling for space junk to land on a city at high noon a few years back. I went on with my non-doomsday. It didn't happen, by golly.

 

[Herat]

The dynamics of the boat damage were discussed a few pages back, with people (me included) hoping a physicist would weigh in. Seeing as none has, I'll give it a shot, though physics is only my hobby, not my profession. Further, I've done a fair amount of whitewater rafting, plus have small boat experience at sea. I am NOT an expert, though, so please take what I'm about to say with a dose of salt.

That Jon boat could easily carry carry several people, or several hundred pounds, on FLAT water. That's what they are made for. What they are not made for is rough water, such as swells. The reason is leverage. If you placed that boat on sawhorses on dry land, one each end, and attempted to load a few hundred pounds in the middle, it would fold, in much the same way as we see in the photos of it. The reason is leverage; with no support except at the ends, it's not a boat, but a bridge.

Calculating how much force would be needed to bend the boat is beyond my abilities, due to me not knowing the strength of the formed aluminum. However, it can't be a lot, due to the softness of aluminum plus the manufacturer's warnings regarding this issue. What I can do, though, is show what the forces would be if two 150lb guys, sitting amidships, attempted to ride through a hydraulic standing wave. Basically, the boat would only be supported at the ends, just as if it was on sawhorses. If we discount inertia for a moment and use only weight, the calculation is a simple leverage force calc; amidships to the end is 5 ft. (10 ft boat) but due to load spreading 4ft will do as a rule of thumb. So, you've got 300lbs sitting in the middle of a roughly 8 foot long "bridge", made of aluminum sheet.

It is unlikely that the boat is strong enough to support that. However, we're ignoring inertia thus far. A wave at the beach is a good analogy (just a different reference frame; at the beach, the wave is moving and you are not. In a rapid, you are moving the wave is not). Ir you head direction into a beach wave in a raft, the bow goes up first, coming up and back. You feel acceleration. Whenever mass is accelerated, you increase force (a mass accelerating at 2G weighs twice as much as one accelerating at 1G). Sitting still on Earth's surface, you feel 1g, an acceleration of 31 feet per second squared. Double it, and your weight doubles too. Long story short, the effective weight of the load would increase as the boat hits a wave, be it either a deep trough or a breaker. And the boat at that point would be utterly unsupported in the middle. It would fold.

However, what this means in practice, in a shelf rapid as Lower Limestone appears to be, is that we can be pretty sure the boat was not empty. But, if it was already swamped, the effect would be roughly the same. (an empty boat could have been swamped upon entering the rapid.)

IMHO, the key here will be forensics. How long has the boat been in the water? Was there any DNA recoverable from the water jug one news outlet reported? Will the boat owner come forward to say how long it might have been missing?

My guess; it's possible, though not probable, that the boat is related to the suspects. The RAV4 burn location, however, was very, very convenient (a hundred yards or so) to a rail line used for both freight and passenger trains. (the former are very easy to jump aboard while moving slow, as they would have to do in that area due to track curve radius and unevenness). If I had to bet, I'd bet on the rail option, but I would not give long odds.

Very interesting post, Arizona

And, should the flat boat be swamped by the load, and all the occupants and their possessions thrown into the river, you would excpect to pick up some debris along the river banks - maybe loose clothing, or a sleeping bag, or paper maps or other things that tend to float.

I do have to agree that the railroad track option just seems so much more likely