Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Schmoosh]

It doesn’t. It was one of many matches observed by the first witness to find the Rav on fire.

Thank you. People who camp will have matches. That just means campers have matches.

 

[Zella]

I wouldn't be surprised if Kam was a major factor in him returning. At that age your friends are everything, and even more so if you don't have many close friends.

As I said the other day I suspect from what we've heard about his parents, his grandma was the only stable and consistent parental figure he had ever had, and that's why he was respectful around her.



I'm 27, live in the suburbs, and same...I haven't totally ruled out ever getting one, but definitely won't any time soon. I have the insight to know I would be a terrible driver due to my anxiety. It is unusual that Bryer didn't have a license, but it's possible it was due to something like anxiety. His dad did say in the interview "He hasn't been nurtured...nobody ever even taught him how to ride a bike." Since Kam and Bryer had been spotted hitchhiking, maybe Bryer even hitchhiked in Port Alberni to get around.



I'd bet this is what happened. If he didn't think Kam had the work ethic to handle a job at the company (which sounds like it could be potentially dangerous work), why would he risk accusations of nepotism and messing up operations? Instead better to wait until he matured a bit. 19 is kind of young to start out in the family business anyway.



Supervised visits also indicates, to me at least, some previous issue that made social workers think it was potentially unsafe for him to be around Bryer unsupervised, like drug use, violence, criminal charges, etc. I never heard before that Bryer ran away -- when did that happen?

He ran away from his mom's house, if I remember correctly. I assume it was one of the inciting factors in his temporary stay with his dad when he was 16.

 

[Zella]

Yes! @Schmoosh it could have been that or go to college in the fall. Also the issue Kam was a moderator Thanks for pointing that out - I feel there has been way too much focus on Bryer's video gaming but oversight on the fact that Kam was a moderator and right into video games too.

I suspect Kam's gaming gets discussed less because he seems to have been better-behaved about it. LOL A lot of the anecdotes about Breyer's gaming revolve around him being inappropriate or a jerk to other players or using the platforms to want to talk about Nazis/send Nazi-themed pics, etc. If Kam did stuff like that, nobody has said anything about it, which leads me to believe, though he was an active and enthusiastic gamer, he was not engaging in the same kind of behavior his pal did.

 

[NJSleuth91]

He ran away from his mom's house, if I remember correctly. I assume it was one of the inciting factors in his temporary stay with his dad when he was 16.

I feel like things have to be really bad in a home environment for a teenager to think staying on the streets is preferable to staying at home....JMO.

 

[dameagatha]

Thank you. People who camp will have matches. That just means campers have matches.

Context: car completely engulfed in flames surrounded by a lot of matches.
Question: How did the fire start?
Answer: car rolled into ditch, people tried to extricate it, caused dry grass to over heat, dry grass caught on fire OR someone lit matches many of which are strewn all over the ground around the car.

 

[Moonlitnight]

With all this discussion about the fact 13-year-old BS said he would chop someone's head off, it is interesting to me how times have changed. When I was at junior school in the UK, a boy who was a bit of a trouble maker threatened to boil me alive and do various other nasty things to body parts. My response was to tell him I would do something equally obnoxious to him with a pair of scissors. We were 10 years old and the last time I checked, he was a very well respected MP for the Labour party. The teachers wouldn't have cared two hoots and my mother laughed at it. FF to now and all this is taken very seriously and is a marker for aberrant behaviour later in life. I thought about why this is and came to the conclusion that back then, violence was very rare, there was no Internet showing us ghastly stuff (and how to do it), no video games and this was "silly talk" based in imagination and fantasy. A lot of famous fairy tale books were utterly repulsive, one involving watering a severed head in a flower pot which everyone understood was fiction. I mention this as my reaction to that girl's comments about BS saying he'd cut someone's head off was "How ridiculous to link this to his being a suspect in two murders and charged in another." But we cannot underestimate how kids may be influenced by the times, video games included. The very first violence I heard as a young person was in 1960 when a 10-year-old girl guide called Brenda Nash was murdered and found in a ditch. Then, of course, the moors murders. Violence was around, but so rare. Not sure what relevance this has but I really feel that the normalization of violence and murder has a lot to do with these kids' behaviour although it doesn't excuse it.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

Yes! @Schmoosh it could have been that or go to college in the fall. Also the issue Kam was a moderator Thanks for pointing that out - I feel there has been way too much focus on Bryer's video gaming but oversight on the fact that Kam was a moderator and right into video games too.

Was McLeod a moderator on Steam? If so, do you know which game?

 

[Schmoosh]

I suspect Kam's gaming gets discussed less because he seems to have been better-behaved about it. LOL A lot of the anecdotes about Breyer's gaming revolve around him being inappropriate or a jerk to other players or using the platforms to want to talk about Nazis/send Nazi-themed pics, etc. If Kam did stuff like that, nobody has said anything about it, which leads me to believe, though he was an active and enthusiastic gamer, he was not engaging in the same kind of behavior his pal did.

It's been said Bryer would use personal information on other gamers. What better way to get it than to have a BFF who is a moderator with access to that kind of information. (and also allow Nazi/violent talk without repercussions)

 

[Zella]

It's been said Bryer would use personal information on other gamers. What better way to get it than to have a BFF who is a moderator with access to that kind of information.

True, though if he were caught doing that, I'd say he would instantly lose his mod privileges. Also, not sure how games work, but the sites I have been staff on, you don't have access to personal information for other users.

Was McLeod a moderator on Steam? If so, do you know which game?

It's been stated he was a moderator, but I cannot remember the source. His Steam his account is private and shows no indication of what he played. FWIW, I remember someone on an old thread saying which game he was a mod for, but I have no idea which thread it was. It's back there aways because it was several days ago, if I recall correctly.

 

[Schmoosh]

I feel like things have to be really bad in a home environment for a teenager to think staying on the streets is preferable to staying at home....JMO.

I think it was more "ran away to Dad's/ran away to Grandma's/crashed at Kam's place". I don't believe he ever slept a night on the streets. He rebelled against his Mom because he had several other options besides sleeping on the streets. Had he not, and it was that bad, he might have treated her with a little more respect.

She works in social services herself, if I recall.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

the last time I checked, he was a very well respected MP for the Labour party.

Can’t be Jeremy then

 

[NJSleuth91]

I think it was more "ran away to Dad's/ran away to Grandma's/crashed at Kam's place". I don't believe he ever slept a night on the streets. He rebelled against his Mom because he had several other options besides sleeping on the streets. Had he not, and it was that bad, he might have treated her with a little more respect.

She works in social services herself, if I recall.

I see. Do you guys know where this information came from BTW?

 

[Zella]

I feel like things have to be really bad in a home environment for a teenager to think staying on the streets is preferable to staying at home....JMO.

I wonder if he ran away to the streets or if he ran away to someone else's house and was turned out. I tried running away when I was 10 and going to a friend's place, and it backfired spectacularly. Could have been something similar for him.

 

[Schmoosh]

Context: car completely engulfed in flames surrounded by a lot of matches.
Question: How did the fire start?
Answer: car rolled into ditch, people tried to extricate it, caused dry grass to over heat, dry grass caught on fire OR someone lit matches many of which are strewn all over the ground around the car.

Correct. It's an "Or". We don't know.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I see. Do you guys know where this information came from BTW?

Exactly!

 

[NJSleuth91]

With all this discussion about the fact 13-year-old BS said he would chop someone's head off, it is interesting to me how times have changed. When I was at junior school in the UK, a boy who was a bit of a trouble maker threatened to boil me alive and do various other nasty things to body parts. My response was to tell him I would do something equally obnoxious to him with a pair of scissors. We were 10 years old and the last time I checked, he was a very well respected MP for the Labour party. The teachers wouldn't have cared two hoots and my mother laughed at it. FF to now and all this is taken very seriously and is a marker for aberrant behaviour later in life.

I think in almost all cases, when kids make threats like that, it turns out to be nothing. However, in the case where something does go wrong later, you look back on that and wonder if it was part of the larger context. But the larger context has many other factors in it which obviously contributed to things going wrong. It is a delicate balance because zero tolerance policies can cause more harm than good, but on the other hand, it's very easy to miss the signs of a larger problem.

 

[Seattle1]

Bryer quit school in Grade 10 at first, that is when I assume he went to live with his dad for a period of 2 months. Then he returned to Port Alberni to his grandmothers, and I would guess the Alternative Program options was worked out for him so he could complete his high school at least to Grade 12 graduations. Being in an AP Bryer would have been assessed for the need to go that route. What interests me is that Kam also ended up in the Alternative Program - that tells me something was not working in the normal class setting for Kam either.

According to the School District 70 (Alberni) site, Alternate Programs (AP) are available for enrollment as early as Kindergarten.

The AP campus also attracts gifted students, students seeking immersion study, and international students.

I also believe AP has evolved since the days when "alternate school" students were labeled as deficient for traditional (normal) class setting.

The three main alternate programs at the Eighth Ave campus include VAST, CHOICES, and DISTRIBUTED LEARNING:

VAST
at Eighth Avenue Learning Centre

The Vast Education Centre is an alternative to the traditional school model. Now located at the Eighth Avenue Learning Centre, the Vast Alternate program is a certified public school offering students the opportunity to complete B.C. curriculum in Grades 9 to 12.

Vast operates on an individualized model with each student working on a course(s) in a self-paced, personalized format with assistance from qualified teachers. Art and Physical Education occur in the afternoons with a strong focus on academics and academic support in the mornings.

CHOICES
at Eighth Avenue Learning Centre

CHOICES is a Distributed Learning school located in the Eighth Avenue Learning Centre that provides self-paced, individualized instruction for students of all ages anywhere in the province. Blended learning opportunities are also available onsite, offering students the opportunity to work with your teacher one-on-one or in small groups. All courses provided by CHOICES follow BC Ministry of Education Learning Standards.

Kindergarten to Grade 9: We provide full programs of study for students at these grade levels. When families meet with their teacher for the first time, a personalized, student learning plan is developed. The goal is to create a plan of action for the year that will meet the needs of the student.

Grades 10-12: Students at the secondary level select specific courses from an extensive list of course options. ADSS and USS students may also take an additional course while maintaining a full course load at either school.

Grade 10-12 Courses Available: Art 10-12, English 10-12, Communications 11 and 12, Family Studies 12, Foods and Nutrition 12, Geography 12, History 12, Grad Transitions 12, Apprenticeship and Workplace 10 and 11, Foundations and Pre-Calculus 10, Foundations of Math 11 and 12, Pre-Calculus 11 and 12, Physical Education 10-12, Planning 10 and 12, Science 10, Science and Tech 11, Earth Science 11, Social Studies 10 and 11, Physics 11, Biology 11 and 12 and Chemistry 11 and 12.

DISTRIBUTED LEARNING
at Eighth Avenue Learning Centre

Distributed learning is an instructional method that increases student choice, flexibility and access to study outside of traditional classroom schedules. It is a component of personalized learning, allowing learners to continue with coursework anytime and anywhere. This instructional method will grow and adapt with changing technology and student needs.

Commonly abbreviated as "DL", it is also referred to as distance education and is the primary delivery method of SD70's CHOICES Distributed Learning program.

Alternate Programs - School District 70 (Alberni)

 

[Zella]

I see. Do you guys know where this information came from BTW?

If you ‘inadvertently’ helped two suspected killers escape, please come forward, RCMP urge

This just says he ran away from home and ended up with his grandmother. It talks a bit about his mother being afraid of him and spoiling him, according to one of her coworkers.

 

[Zella]

I think it was more "ran away to Dad's/ran away to Grandma's/crashed at Kam's place". I don't believe he ever slept a night on the streets. He rebelled against his Mom because he had several other options besides sleeping on the streets. Had he not, and it was that bad, he might have treated her with a little more respect.

She works in social services herself, if I recall.

BBM

This was my impression, too.

 

[CinNC]

This is so obvious as to be simple, and maybe it has been addressed. But wouldn't fingerprints in and on the blue van link B&K to the murders of L&C? I'm sure the teens' fingerprints were collected when RCMP went to their homes to search their computers, belongings, etc.

 

[otto]

That's interesting! Many years back, it used to be 2 years out of school (and 21 years old), but some yutes would be all "COOL! I don't have to even try to graduate high school. I can mess around for a few years and still get into university!" LOL

Not without high grades in core courses.