Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[aphoto]

What I don't understand here is each of these sightings Split Lake, Meadow Lake, Constable Check Stop, etc., -- they've all gone on record stating that they were unaware the teens were wanted suspects until the following day.

To me that says that all these people didn't know the teens were "missing persons" either.

They were missing persons before they were suspects, correct?

MOO

Are you familiar with every face on missing person lists within 3000km of your home? I would hazard a guess that the answer is no. People typically don’t pay much attention to missing persons notices. When they became suspects and their image was more widely circulated and they were essentially Canada’s most wanted people their faces quickly became fresh in people’s minds.

 

[Iwondertoo]

No idea. Lucas Fowler used a credit card at the gas station in Fort Nelson. My impression is that the card belonged to Chynna. They could have given up their money, cards and PINs to save their lives.

Just curious why your impression is that the card belonged to Chynna?

While I'm here though I want to thank you for your maps and input Otto. Your maps have helped more than anything else to help to follow this case. Thank you so much!!

 

[NJSleuth91]

LOL I think I read that too. I think he was socially awkward, but I also feel like some of the stuff he pulled was so over-the-top trollish that he had to know it was going to be poorly received. This might have been why he was friends with KM. Everyone else was repulsed by it, but KM wasn't.

BS's Steam account previous usernames also feature Cyrillic. KM's Steam usernames, meanwhile, never seemed Russian in nature but several included the handle angelofdeath.

Honestly a lot of times when someone is socially awkward, especially a teenager, they kind of just lean into it and troll everyone because getting negative attention on purpose is preferable to getting negative attention not on purpose. They can kind of tell themselves "I want people to hate me" instead of being upset that everyone hates them. Kam had probably known him so long that he was used to it and could kind of work around it.

In case y'all don't know, Angel of Death is a Slayer song about...Josef Mengele. Yeah...I'm thinking there were signs of things going wrong with Kam but nobody noticed them.

 

[scrappinkat]

What I don't understand here is each of these sightings Split Lake, Meadow Lake, Constable Check Stop, etc., -- they've all gone on record stating that they were unaware the teens were wanted suspects until the following day.

To me that says that all these people didn't know the teens were "missing persons" either.

They were missing persons before they were suspects, correct?

MOO

Yes they were considered missing at first. But unlike an Amber Alert that reaches a wide audience many missing person reports do not get seen by a very large audience, especially in the beginning.

 

[otto]

What I don't understand here is each of these sightings Split Lake, Meadow Lake, Constable Check Stop, etc., -- they've all gone on record stating that they were unaware the teens were wanted suspects until the following day.

To me that says that all these people didn't know the teens were "missing persons" either.

They were missing persons before they were suspects, correct?

MOO

The Meadow Lake sighting was a result of knowing that the teens were reported missing. The sighting was the tip that answered questions about the missing teens.

The reason that Meadow Lake CCTV footage got into the hands of RCMP is that it was the tip that proved the teens were not hiding from a predator near Dease Lake, but were indeed the predators driving a stolen vehicle East along unpopulated areas in Northern Canada.

 

[JuneBug67]

Not sure you know entirely how the process of journalism tends to work. The field reporters and photographers file each day and the editors in a newsroom determine what is published. I believe (and it’s not based purely on speculation) that the photographer would have taken images of lots of things in the area, burnt trees, some melted tires, etc and the keys. Those images would be filed and just happened to run in this article. This forum is full of people who care about the absolute tiniest details that most members of the public couldn’t care less about and wouldn’t buy a newspaper to read.

As mentioned earlier I have made enquiries about the keys, I believe them to be in police hands now but I want to confirm. The issue is that they sat in an unsecured crime scene for at least a few days when they should have been collected at the same time as the car was taken away for forensic analysis.

The RCMPs failures along the course of this investigation are otherwise well documented in the media.

It’s the fact that the perceived failures of the RCMP are well documented in the media - in part because it’s a key part of a journalists’s job to hold an organization like the RCMP to a certain accountability - that a complete absence of any story implying a failure to collect evidence in the very national daily that printed the photo suggests to me that there may be another explanation.

 

[aphoto]

It’s the fact that the perceived failures of the RCMP are well documented in the media - in part because it’s a key part of a journalists’s job to hold an organization like the RCMP to a certain accountability - that a complete absence of any story implying a failure to collect evidence in the very national daily that printed the photo suggests to me that there may be another explanation.

And I’m suggesting the other explanation is likely that the people that would make the call to write that story didn’t make the connection and possibly by the time they did the keys had been collected. Let’s put it to rest, it’s all speculation and I have said I will have a firm answer on the keys as soon as I can.

 

[JuneBug67]

Honestly a lot of times when someone is socially awkward, especially a teenager, they kind of just lean into it and troll everyone because getting negative attention on purpose is preferable to getting negative attention not on purpose. They can kind of tell themselves "I want people to hate me" instead of being upset that everyone hates them. Kam had probably known him so long that he was used to it and could kind of work around it.

In case y'all don't know, Angel of Death is a Slayer song about...Josef Mengele. Yeah...I'm thinking there were signs of things going wrong with Kam but nobody noticed them.

I’m not sure how many here are familiar with the Millard/Smich crimes here in Canada, but they are another duo that I have thought about frequently in the context of this case. Smich, like Bryer, was the initially obvious problem child. Millard came from wealth and privilege and superficially had a much more normal profile. But in the end Millard was the covert engine of all of it. The prime mover of all the evil they did. I’ve wondered if Kam just flew under the radar with a better mask.

 

[Zella]

.I'm thinking there were signs of things going wrong with Kam but nobody noticed them.

SBM

Agreed! I think he hid it better, and some of it could conceivably fall into the "probably it's just an interest in a hobby" category for many people, so his outwardly polite, well-behaved persona made nobody question him whereas BS's vocal interest in Nazism and threatening his classmates makes it easier to see where he was going wrong.

Their Instagram profile pics are also interesting to me. BS's is, of course, that picture of the 2 of them together that we have referenced countless times. KM's is of Jinx, a character from League of Legends who is apparently a remorseless killer. And his picture--which it looks like he may have made or grabbed from elsewhere on the internet--has the tag line "Kill Em." I don't think anyone liking Jinx on its own means they're a budding murderer--God knows most of my favorite characters are villains--but viewed in hindsight it makes one wonder.

 

[otto]

Are you familiar with every face on missing person lists within 3000km of your home? I would hazard a guess that the answer is no. People typically don’t pay much attention to missing persons notices. When they became suspects and their image was more widely circulated and they were essentially Canada’s most wanted people their faces quickly became fresh in people’s minds.

They were being sought by the Major Crimes Unit in the area where 2 tourists had been murdered earlie the same week. Their faces were everywhere as missing and potentially in danger, their vehicle found burning and another murder victim 2 km South.

Then they turned up with a Rav4 in Saskatchewan buying gas. Major tip.

 

[otto]

Just curious why your impression is that the card belonged to Chynna?

While I'm here though I want to thank you for your maps and input Otto. Your maps have helped more than anything else to help to follow this case. Thank you so much!!

If you watch the footage, Lucas puts the card in, tries some numbers a couple of times, goes to the front of the van, talks to Chynna, tries the card again, the card goes through for "pay before you pump" and he fills the tank.

 

[Jessthinkin]

I was rather shocked to recently discover Tap is enabled by default. Maybe not by all financial instructions but it is for the chartered bank I deal with.

So, for years I’ve made sure my credit union issued me a debit card that’s NOT attached to a credit card due to financial advice I’d heard that doing it this way protects your bank accounts if there’s online fraud on your debit card. When I use my debit card, I always have to use a PiN code.
Hearing that PIN’s aren’t needed anymore for many debit card purchases under $100 seems unnecessarily reckless and tempting to thieves to rob you of your card, since it’s so easy to use. In fact, if you’re not alive to report it stolen, it can probably be used for a longer period of time without consequence. (Or am I not understanding this correctly?)

ETA: this relates to the case due to the apparent theft of the 3 murder victims’ bank cards...

 

[aphoto]

They were being sought by the Major Crimes Unit in the area where 2 tourists had been murdered earlie the same week. Their faces were everywhere as missing and potentially in danger, their vehicle found burning and another murder victim 2 km South.

Then they turned up with a Rav4 in Saskatchewan buying gas. Major tip.

Yes but seattle1 seems perplexed as to why no one recognized them until they became suspects. News travels slowly in rural Canada and people just aren’t as tuned in to missing peoples alerts as they are to armed/dangerous wanted people alerts.

 

[NJSleuth91]

SBM

Agreed! I think he hid it better, and some of it could conceivably fall into the "probably it's just an interest in a hobby" category for many people, so his outwardly polite, well-behaved persona made nobody question him whereas BS's vocal interest in Nazism and threatening his classmates makes it easier to see where he was going wrong.

Their Instagram profile pics are also interesting to me. BS's is, of course, that picture of the 2 of them together that we have referenced countless times. KM's is of Jinx, a character from League of Legends who is apparently a remorseless killer. And his picture--which it looks like he may have made or grabbed from elsewhere on the internet--has the tag line "Kill Em." I don't think anyone liking Jinx on its own means they're a budding murderer--God knows most of my favorite characters are villains--but viewed in hindsight it makes one wonder.

Even the things he did show were hidden. Angel of Death is one of the most famous metal songs of all time, and I'm sure many metalheads have made it their username intending for the context to be "*advertiser censored** yeah, Slayer!" and not "*advertiser censored** yeah, Nazis!" He had plausible deniability for that kind of stuff. Going back to that NPR article I posted, maybe it was even one of those things where the person makes veiled references to disturbing things hoping that someone will care enough to notice and stop them.

 

[Seattle1]

Not sure you know entirely how the process of journalism tends to work. The field reporters and photographers file each day and the editors in a newsroom determine what is published. I believe (and it’s not based purely on speculation) that the photographer would have taken images of lots of things in the area, burnt trees, some melted tires, etc and the keys. Those images would be filed and just happened to run in this article. This forum is full of people who care about the absolute tiniest details that most members of the public couldn’t care less about and wouldn’t buy a newspaper to read.

As mentioned earlier I have made enquiries about the keys, I believe them to be in police hands now but I want to confirm. The issue is that they sat in an unsecured crime scene for at least a few days when they should have been collected at the same time as the car was taken away for forensic analysis.

The RCMPs failures along the course of this investigation are otherwise well documented in the media.

To my knowledge, the photo's of the keys and area were released on 7/31 but it was also very clear that police were working the area when these photos released. I believe the keys were soon in police possession.

Alexis Daish‏Verified account @LexiDaish
PICS: Police tell us today they’re working on the ground retracing steps from where Mcleod and Schmegelsky torched their car here outside of Gillam. There’s a scorched set of keys left behind.@9NewsAUS @TheTodayShow

9:37 AM - 31 Jul 2019

 

[Zella]

Even the things he did show were hidden. Angel of Death is one of the most famous metal songs of all time, and I'm sure many metalheads have made it their username intending for the context to be "*advertiser censored** yeah, Slayer!" and not "*advertiser censored** yeah, Nazis!" He had plausible deniability for that kind of stuff. Going back to that NPR article I posted, maybe it was even one of those things where the person makes veiled references to disturbing things hoping that someone will care enough to notice and stop them.

Yes, he was definitely sleathier about it than BS was and, again, had the public persona that makes people more likely to just be like, "That Kam has a weird sense of humor but seems like such a nice guy" rather than "What a creepy weirdo. He's going to come to a bad end."

 

[otto]

Yes but seattle1 seems perplexed as to why no one recognized them until they became suspects. News travels slowly in rural Canada and people just aren’t as tuned in to missing peoples alerts as they are to armed/dangerous wanted people alerts.

People did recognize them before they were suspects. They stole the Rav4 on July 19, they were on CCTV 2 days later. They were not suspects. They were missing.

The Meadow Lake SK gas station recognized them before they became suspects simply because their faces were plastered all over the news in relation to the tourist murders - as potential victims, along side the unidentified man near their burning vehicle.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I’m not sure how many here are familiar with the Millard/Smich crimes here in Canada, but they are another duo that I have thought about frequently in the context of this case. Smich, like Bryer, was the initially obvious problem child. Millard came from wealth and privilege and superficially had a much more normal profile. But in the end Millard was the covert engine of all of it. The prime mover of all the evil they did. I’ve wondered if Kam just flew under the radar with a better mask.

Yep, a bad combo. I remember when younger I had two intense friendships (female and female as opposed to male and male) where our personality dynamics fed off each other where we in a sense created our own "power". And in a weird way we did feel powerful, almost like we were invincible! We had many great times and memories.

The difference is - we didn't nurture violent ideas or act on violent tendencies, we did other outlandish and crazy things that were instead, fun.

My point is, I think many of these friendships exist with certain if not many people but the rarity is where both parties act on their dark urges and perform violent acts.

 

[Zella]

FWIW, I think "angel of death," though it can be a Mengele reference, can also just sort of be a stand-in for an interest in death. I've seen people jokingly refer to characters looking like an angel of death, meaning they look sinister and deadly. If he's identifying himself as an angel of death, it can also be taken as he is a bringer of death. Which for a game could just seem like a way to have a cool username that might intimidate your opponents, but it can have a deeper meaning, whether it is a Nazi reference or a general declaration about one's proclivities.

 

[MistyWaters]

So, for years I’ve made sure my credit union issued me a debit card that’s NOT attached to a credit card due to financial advice I’d heard that doing it this way protects your bank accounts if there’s online fraud on your debit card. When I use my debit card, I always have to use a PiN code.
Hearing that PIN’s aren’t needed anymore for many debit card purchases under $100 seems unnecessarily reckless and tempting to thieves to rob you of your card, since it’s so easy to use. In fact, if you’re not alive to report it stolen, it can probably be used for a longer period of time without consequence. (Or am I not understanding this correctly?)

Yes you are understanding it correctly. Your credit union will know if your debit card is enabled for Tap or not. I had no idea until recently I used it at a convenience store at a gas station and it wouldn’t accept my PIN. The debit card little screen instructed me to “tap”. The clerk had to show me how lol. Since then I notice not all terminals are tap enabled because I tried it a few times after that and sometimes it taps and sometimes a PIN is required even though the purchase is under the $100 daily limit.