Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #13

[Zella]

I’m not sure how many here are familiar with the Millard/Smich crimes here in Canada, but they are another duo that I have thought about frequently in the context of this case. Smich, like Bryer, was the initially obvious problem child. Millard came from wealth and privilege and superficially had a much more normal profile. But in the end Millard was the covert engine of all of it. The prime mover of all the evil they did. I’ve wondered if Kam just flew under the radar with a better mask.

I'm not familiar with those two but it echoes what I have read about other dyad murderers. Dick Hickock and Perry Smith of In Cold Blood fame and Juliet Hulme and Pauline Parker had a similar dynamic of the poorer, more obviously dysfunctional problem child being the follower and the more normal, affluent one being the driving force, even if they were sometimes the less overtly violent one. It's one reason I have thought since the beginning that KM was the leader and BS was more of the follower.

 

[Seattle1]

Yes but seattle1 seems perplexed as to why no one recognized them until they became suspects. News travels slowly in rural Canada and people just aren’t as tuned in to missing peoples alerts as they are to armed/dangerous wanted people alerts.

I understand that about the typical missing persons situation but here you had 3 murdered individuals, one burned truck/camper, and the owners vanished. I'd expect they would be considered endangered missing persons at this point.

Maybe it goes back to word of three murders on the roadway not getting out fast enough.

 

[Zella]

Incidentally, that pic of the 2 of them together with the butterflies. BS is leaning in substantially. I saw some early speculation threads ago that that was him asserting he was the dominant one, but I have never read that picture that way. I think KM is asserting his dominance by standing rock solid and making BS be the one to lean in. BS is the one who has to put all the effort into the picture that way while KM just stands there and lets him.

All MOO

 

[nope]

This is going to sound super dumb, but how do you use someone’s debit card without knowing their PIN?

Tap function You just tap the card on the machine.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I'm not familiar with those two but it echoes what I have read about other dyad murderers. Dick Hickock and Perry Smith of In Cold Blood fame and Juliet Hulme and Pauline Parker had a similar dynamic of the poorer, more obviously dysfunctional problem child being the follower and the more normal, affluent one being the driving force, even if they were sometimes the less overtly violent one. It's one reason I have thought since the beginning that KM was the leader and BS was more of the follower.

The Millard/Smich story is a sad and disturbing one if you ever read up on it. Totally senseless violence. Two young, stupid evil men playing games with peoples lives because they had nothing better to do. Stole Tim Bosma's life (not their only victim) for no real reason, very tragic and glad those two were caught and convicted otherwise there would be more victims.

 

[Seattle1]

No idea. Lucas Fowler used a credit card at the gas station in Fort Nelson. My impression is that the card belonged to Chynna. They could have given up their money, cards and PINs to save their lives.

Really? I've no doubt that the killers robbed them of everything, and killed them anyway.

 

[Arizona 123]

This article was posted upthread (thank you!) and I highly recommend it, even though I am not in full agreement with it.
‘Murder is not a private matter’: RCMP owe public more answers about suspected B.C. killers, critics say | The Star

I'm a privacy fanatic, so I'm biased toward being sympathetic to arguments based on privacy, but I agree in the main; a bit more transparency, so long as it does not impede the investigation or prosecution, is needful.

I sort of disagree with the issue of revealing the details of Professor Dyck's death. At this juncture (assuming the suspects are indeed dead) and assuming the family made the request not to disclose, I feel that deferring to the family of the victim is correct. However, if Professor Dyck was murdered by the same means as the couple on the van, then back before the suspects were IDd and seen elsewhere, the means should have been disclosed, for reasons of public safety on those roadways.

Quite a few of the questions the article asks are IMHO things in need of answering, though after the suspect autopsies and IDs are completed (probably can't be known for sure without that). A toxicology result (on the suspects) needs to be included in the release, as well.

I also hope that Canadians will demand answers, real answers this time (conflating it with releasing the names was dissembling at best) on why it took over 4 days for them to reveal that anyone had been murdered. Expecting people to read between the lines that "suspicious" means "murdered" is preposterous; if they mean murder, then say murder.

I'll close by saying that I have no rights on this issue, nor any say in it, and that's as it should be - I'm not Canadian. This is a matter for Canadians to decide and, if they so wish, change, but they can't make a decision on that without knowing facts.

 

[MistyWaters]

I understand that about the typical missing persons situation but here you had 3 murdered individuals, one burned truck/camper, and the owners vanished. I'd expect they would be considered endangered missing persons at this point.

Maybe it goes back to word of three murders on the roadway not getting out fast enough.

They didn't fit within the classification of what’s an endangered missing person.

Endangered Missing Persons
The Missing Persons Unit classifies some incidents involving missing persons as Endangered Missing Person incidents. An Endangered Missing Person is defined as:

• A person who is reported to possess a physical or mental disability
• A person who is elderly or very young
• A person who is dependant on prescription medications
• A person who is unfamiliar with the city.

Winnipeg Police Service - Division 41 - Missing Persons

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Incidentally, that pic of the 2 of them together with the butterflies. BS is leaning in substantially. I saw some early speculation threads ago that that was him asserting he was the dominant one, but I have never read that picture that way. I think KM is asserting his dominance by standing rock solid and making BS be the one to lean in. He's the one who has to put all the effort into the picture that way while KM just stands there and lets him.

All MOO

I think the same. For some reason KM strikes me as the type who maybe wasn't as much an outcast/awkward for some reason.

 

[otto]

I understand that about the typical missing persons situation but here you had 3 murdered individuals, one burned truck/camper, and the owners vanished. I'd expect they would be considered endangered missing persons at this point.

Maybe it goes back to word of three murders on the roadway not getting out fast enough.

Missing cannot be assumed to be dangerous. On Monday, there were 2 murders on Hwy 97. No clue what happened. On Friday, there was a burned camper truck on Hwy 37 and an identified deceased man 2 km South. The owners of the burned camper truck were missing and presumed lost and using survival tactics in the woods.

No one knew yet whether the murders were connected or what happened to the teens.

Word about the first 2 murders was out the day after the murders - couldn't have been any faster.

 

[NJSleuth91]

Yep, a bad combo. I remember when younger I had two intense friendships (female and female as opposed to male and male) where our personality dynamics fed off each other where we in a sense created our own "power". And in a weird way we did feel powerful, almost like we were invincible! We had many great times and memories.

The difference is - we didn't nurture violent ideas or act on violent tendencies, we did other outlandish and crazy things that were instead, fun.

My point is, I think many of these friendships exist with certain if not many people but the rarity is where both parties act on their dark urges and perform violent acts.

I think those kinds of friendships are very common in adolescence too where your entire world is your friends and all emotions are really heightened. My best friend in high school was bipolar and kind of a loose cannon, people were disturbed by her, etc. and I still feel like one of the factors in my developing depression was her influence. Like high school was already stressful for everyone and then throw in having to regularly talk someone down from suicide while they are pulling you to that way of thinking. Before you know it, I'm talking her down from suicide one week and she's talking me down from it the next. Suffice to say the friendship ended badly but I think it was best for us to go our separate ways. Now I can't even imagine letting someone have that much influence over my psyche but back then it seemed normal.

FWIW, I think "angel of death," though it can be a Mengele reference, can also just sort of be a stand-in for an interest in death. I've seen people jokingly refer to characters looking like an angel of death, meaning they look sinister and deadly. If he's identifying himself as an angel of death, it can also be taken as he is a bringer of death. Which for a game could just seem like a way to have a cool username that might intimidate your opponents, but it can have a deeper meaning, whether it is a Nazi reference or a general declaration about one's proclivities.

Well, maybe, but with the other Nazi proclivities we know they had, it kind of points in a certain direction.

 

[Zella]

I think the same. For some reason KM strikes me as the type who maybe wasn't as much an outcast/awkward for some reason.

Agreed! It seems like BS had burned through most of his friends by this point as he became more and more creepy. KM still had friends, from what I could tell. One of them described KM as not having many friends but being a happy person with a good sense of humor. (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/brit...c-teens-subject-of-national-manhunt-1.5222515) I don't think he was ever super popular, but he seems to have been in good standing with most people who knew him. Their demeanor in the surveillance footage from the store also indicates to me KM had a more outwardly confident and less neurotic demeanor.

 

[Iwondertoo]

If you watch the footage, Lucas puts the card in, tries some numbers a couple of times, goes to the front of the van, talks to Chynna, tries the card again, the card goes through for "pay before you pump" and he fills the tank.

Yes, interesting point. I remember seeing that footage. And then not thinking about that detail ever again.

Thanks.

 

[Optics]

steelybird said: ↑
I’ve always wondered what is there blurred out in the gravel? Like the bodies are blurred out but a part of the road/gravel is as well. What is that?

I kinda think that was just sloppy work on the part of whoever blurred out the bodies.

No, all the blurred areas including on the ground where the window was blown out are blood from the victims

 

[otto]

Two people found on the side of a highway next to a van. There's no ID. The vehicle is not legally associated with either of the victims. RCMP had nothing.

3 days later RCMP learn the victims are tourists. In the meantime, their deaths were immediately considered suspicious and the investigation goes international. Media alerted the public to the murders on Hwy 97.

The next day, another murder victim, a burned vehicle and 2 missing teens on Hwy 37. No known connection to the tourist murders.

2 days later, the "missing" teens from the burned vehicle are driving a Rav4 in SK.

2 days later the Rav4 is burned and connected to the 3rd murder victim.

That's the last known sign of life from the "missing" suspects prior to the mangled boat.

 

[otto]

Yes, interesting point. I remember seeing that footage. And then not thinking about that detail ever again.

Thanks.

I suspect that Chynna would have given up her PIN in a heartbeat if she thought it would keep them alive. It's also possible that, as seasoned travellers who would never abandon a van in the outback Australia or Canada, maybe they thought there was another way out.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

DBM internet being weird didn't post my reply!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

DBM again, duplicate as above ^^^ weirrrdd....

 

[JuneBug67]

steelybird said: ↑
I’ve always wondered what is there blurred out in the gravel? Like the bodies are blurred out but a part of the road/gravel is as well. What is that?


No, all the blurred areas including on the ground where the window was blown out are blood from the victims

Could be, but it’s contrary to the claim of the person who first made the photo available publicly and says he both communicated with the person who did the blurring and received an unaltered copy of the original.

 

[Optics]

I suppose that is entirely possible. We have only seen photos of one side of the van as far as I am aware.

I feel they approached the van. Lucas heard something outside the van and got up and out to check, he was killed outside. I feel Chynna woke up looked out the back window of the van they saw her and shot her in the face. I think that is why her family said it would not be an 'open coffin'

 

[JuneBug67]

steelybird said: ↑
I’ve always wondered what is there blurred out in the gravel? Like the bodies are blurred out but a part of the road/gravel is as well. What is that?


No, all the blurred areas including on the ground where the window was blown out are blood from the victims

Could be, but it’s contrary to the claim of the person who first made the photo available publicly and says he both communicated with the person who did the blurring and received an unaltered copy of the original.

 

[JuneBug67]

DBM

Weird double post that is clearly Websleuths attempting to intimidate me into going to sleep. Fine! I will!

 

[otto]

When you think about it, Lucas and Chynna, 23 and 24 years old, were confronted by a couple of 18 and 19 year old dorks from small town, nowhere. Lucas and Chynna travelled all over the world and encountered all types of people, yet there was no way out of the encounter with the small town dorks.

One possible reason is that the suspects planned to kill them as soon as they were sure that they could get away with it. It's like their bucket list was rob and kill someone, steal a car and get away with it, go to polar bear country, ride the rapids and give it up.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think those kinds of friendships are very common in adolescence too where your entire world is your friends and all emotions are really heightened. My best friend in high school was bipolar and kind of a loose cannon, people were disturbed by her, etc. and I still feel like one of the factors in my developing depression was her influence. Like high school was already stressful for everyone and then throw in having to regularly talk someone down from suicide while they are pulling you to that way of thinking. Before you know it, I'm talking her down from suicide one week and she's talking me down from it the next. Suffice to say the friendship ended badly but I think it was best for us to go our separate ways. Now I can't even imagine letting someone have that much influence over my psyche but back then it seemed normal.

Well, maybe, but with the other Nazi proclivities we know they had, it kind of points in a certain direction.

So true. People, especially in youth can bond over many interesting things be it art, music, being self-destructive, drugs, violence or an interest in dark things(like us Websleuthers LOL). If there's a dominant/leader personality they might want to take someone down with them if they're going down an unhealthy path.