Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[SteveP]

August 7, 2019

B.C. RCMP said Wednesday the discovery of two bodies believed to be the suspects in a string of murders in northern B.C. has not stopped their investigation into the deaths.

[...]

“We still need to ensure our investigative findings — whether it’s statements, evidentiary timelines, physical or digital evidence — continues to confirm our investigative theory and eliminates any other possibilities or suspects,” Hackett said. “Until that is completed we will not conclude this file.”

B.C. RCMP say deaths of northern B.C. murder suspects will not stop investigation

@otto - you can listen to Assistant Commissioner Kevin Hackett statements at link abvoe re. eliminate any other possibilities or suspects.

@SteveP - you remembered correctly -- sorry to wake you.

Yay!!! Thank you!! I KNEW I had seen that somewhere!!

 

[Thinkzerz]

I’m starting to think the reason they killed the couple was because there was two of them. I believe they both killed one of them at the same time. They wanted to kill and they wanted to do it together. So why not pick a couple? There truck must have been spotted and therefore placed on fire. Now they killed professor Dicks for his vehicle and burn it when done with it. Once in bush they realized big mistake bugs , hypothermia killed them. That’s my theory. Even though we may never know the true story, I felt like posting my theory. IMO

 

[scrappinkat]

Interesting info from a club on the island that has airsoft battles every second week, open to ages 9 and up. Seems to me the gas mask get up could have been a cheap thrift shop score for face and eye protection. And if you’re a young kid in school living with your grandma I think many would agree that cheap could have been a necessity. Anyways thought this was interesting, actually the link has a great description of the airsoft game and expectations.

Airsoft

Eye Protection:
Eye protection is THE mandatory piece of equipment. You can’t go out on the field without it. Most standard shooting glasses are not suitable for Airsoft activities because they leave too much of a gap around the eyes. That gap can allow a 6mm BB to get by during an odd angled shot or a ricochet. Standard sun glasses are completely unsafe for Airsofting. We highly recommend full seal googles but will accept glasses providing they sufficiently seal the eye sockets of the player.

Face Protection:
A wire mesh mask, or at a minimum a thick scarf / bandana, which covers the mouth area to protect your teeth. Larger mesh masks can also offer ear protection.

Airsoft

 

[Seattle1]

Yay!!! Thank you!! I KNEW I had seen that somewhere!!

You both saw and heard!

 

[Seattle1]

Hackett said “significant evidence” links the two crime scenes together, but wouldn’t give further details. He also wouldn’t say what evidence links the suspects to Fowler and Deese.

“Our investigators will go through [the evidence] meticulously, and we will be in a better position perhaps in the future, the near future, to talk about all the linkages, perhaps, that existed.”

When asked if RCMP could have prevented the subsequent manhunt and potentially even Dyck’s death by responding more forcefully and setting up roadblocks following the deaths of Fowler and Deese, Hackett said police did the best they could with the information they had.
B.C. RCMP say deaths of northern B.C. murder suspects will not stop investigation

Link above provides both print and video statements/replies by RCMP policing authorities and Assistant Commissioner Kevin Hackett at presser after suspect's bodies recovered.

 

[NJSleuth91]

But if it was a planned murder/suicide between themselves then is the 1 murdered really a victim? Could they have said, "If we're cornered and we can't escape we'll kill ourselves or vice versa "Kill me then kill yourself too"? Maybe 1 of the 2 "chickened out" and wanted to give themselves up but the other said, "No way, I'll kill you before you do that" so he did perhaps. In which case it would be murder. We'll never know now I don't think . JMO

Hopefully it turns out that they both killed themselves, otherwise it opens the door to a lifetime of speculation, the parents of the murdered one saying the suicide one masterminded the whole thing, etc. If it does turn out to be a murder suicide I will always think (unless there's really strong evidence indicating otherwise) that the murdered one was too afraid to shoot themselves and asked the other one to do it for them. I don't think there was a betrayal. If there was going to be one, it would have happened long before then, IMO.

I think prison was never an option for them. They were probably terrified of prison for obvious reasons (don't do the crime if you can't do the time....) and as I said, I suspect they were both intermittently suicidal for years leading up to this, which makes it easier to actually go through with suicide. I think they didn't really want to die and that's why they were making this panicked escape, thinking that there was a tiny chance that maybe they could get away somehow, and not accepting that they couldn't. But once they realized there was no chance of them getting away, and the options were prison or death, I think they had already made up their minds days earlier that it would be death.

 

[Seattle1]

Did BS's father really say "Kudos Boys" in reference to them evading the RCMP for 2 weeks? Hmmm Alan Schmegelsky refuses to accept son Bryer shot dead Australian Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese | Daily Mail Online

While AS did say "Kudos" when he first saw the teens on their final surveillance video, my impression was he was overjoyed that they were still alive, and not joy at evading RCMP.

MOO

 

[Zella]

While AS did say "Kudos" when he first saw the teens on their final surveillance video, my impression was he was overjoyed that they were still alive, and not joy at evading RCMP.

MOO

That was my impression, too. Even the reporter, who didn't always seem terribly sympathetic to him, noted that it was an uncomfortable moment but seemed much more rooted in knowing there was a confirmed sighting that his son was alive rather than him being thrilled they were successfully evading LE.

 

[Francie Starr]

I am sure that someone more organized than me will be able to supply a link, but IIRC, RCMP never said they believe that other people were involved, but said instead, and I am paraphrasing, that at this time, they cannot rule out that others may have been involved. @Seattle1? JMO

Perhaps this is the video interview being referenced?
BC RCMP say investigation does not stop with discovery of bodies | Watch News Videos Online

"WATCH: B.C. RCMP said Wednesday that the discovery of bodies believed to be the suspects in three murders in B.C. does not put an end to the investigation and says they need to ensure their investigative theory is confirmed by evidence and there are no other suspects."

 

[scrappinkat]

Did BS's father really say "Kudos Boys" in reference to them evading the RCMP for 2 weeks? Hmmm Alan Schmegelsky refuses to accept son Bryer shot dead Australian Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese | Daily Mail Online

First off can anyone clarify - what the rule about single quote marks ( ‘ ) mean as compared to the double quote marks ( “ ) is?

 

[olivebpa1]

My understanding is that when they find two dead people, protocol is to investigate as a homicide.

Exactly. They don’t assume anything. They let the evidence tell them what happened.

 

[Zella]

First off can anyone clarify - what the rule about single quote marks ( ‘ ) mean as compared to the double quote marks ( “ )?

You mean from a grammatical standpoint? It is actually the exact opposite in the UK and US. The joys of English!

 

[ldlager]

Did you listen to the PC when the officer said the extent of LDs injuries would not be released due to the wishes of his family members?

But I’ll find you the link.

This is a good place to start -
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AND PROTECTION OF PRIVACY ACT
Table of Contents - Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act

Thank you. I am very well familiar with the Act. And with the Privacy Commissioners rulings and guidelines.
Imo the cod is private information of the deceased. LE would be permitted to release this info if required to conclude or further an investigatigation or resolve suspected criminal activity. Technically LE should not be releasing this info to the family, except for those purposes. But I get it, the family wants to know (presumably) and LE tells them. I can understand that. But I see no provision anywhere that would give the family control or a veto over disclosure of this information.

 

[Francie Starr]

If you mean is there some sort of process whereby the public decides if the two are innocent or guilty, no. What would be the point of convicting dead men? That doesn’t occur in Canada nor does it occur in any other country that I’m aware of.

I think the RCMP will issue a final report months from now but I would guess the extent of the information may also be dependent on what the families of the three victims want released. At this point in time, considering the suspects are dead, the wishes of the families of the three victims supersede the curiosity of the general public, and such is their right through our privacy and confidentially laws in Canada.

Of course there would be no point in convicting the dead. However, the public certainly has a vested interest in determining if the charge and allegations against them are supported by the evidence. Otherwise it remains possible that another murderer or murderers continue to stalk victims on Canada's northern highways.

 

[JuneBug67]

You mean from a grammatical standpoint? It is actually the exact opposite in the UK and US. The joys of English!

Canada usually ends up a mish mash of UK and US language conventions, so we actually open with a single quote and close with a double*.

*we don’t actually

 

[Zella]

Canada usually ends up a mish mash of UK and US language conventions, so we actually open with a single quote and close with a double*.

*we don’t actually

Bahahaha

I was actually wondering whether Canadians followed British usage or American usage with quotation marks. I assumed UK but am not sure.

 

[ldlager]

You mean from a grammatical standpoint? It is actually the exact opposite in the UK and US. The joys of English!

If you are quoting something you use double. If what you are quoting also contains a secondary quote, you use singles around the embedded quote. At least that’s what I was taught a VERY long time ago (in Canada).

 

[Zella]

If you are quoting something you use double. If what you are quoting also contains a secondary quote, you use singles around the embedded quote. At least that’s what I was taught a VERY long time ago (in Canada).

Yes, that's what I was also taught as an American! I know British convention is to do the opposite, which always makes me do a double-take!

 

[sandbar]

Thank you. I am very well familiar with the Act. And with the Privacy Commissioners rulings and guidelines.
Imo the cod is private information of the deceased. LE would be permitted to release this info if required to conclude or further an investigatigation or resolve suspected criminal activity. Technically LE should not be releasing this info to the family, except for those purposes. But I get it, the family wants to know (presumably) and LE tells them. I can understand that. But I see no provision anywhere that would give the family control or a veto over disclosure of this information.

Thank you.

I agree. It doesn't make sense to me that CoD is private (I can see LE withholding horric details, but IMO they should have to say why) especially if a suspicious death happened on public property.

I wish someone on here was LE and could answer this definitively.

 

[10ofRods]

I'm surprised I haven't seen that article before! It definitely has a lot of information not mentioned elsewhere. It even shows the signs asking for dashcam footage that we speculated might have freaked them out.

A lot of the stuff sounds like normal "edgy teen" behavior. And a lot of it doesn't. If I went camping with two friends and one of them was wearing a military outfit and swastika armband and crushing and snorting Ritalin with a giant Nazi knife, I would immediately leave. That's literally like the sketchiest thing I've ever heard of in my life. The fact that Kam was totally unbothered by that behavior says a lot. Even if he didn't do things like that, it's like he was implicitly showing that was the kind of thing he wanted to engage in, by hanging out with someone who was like that. JMO.

I'm also wondering how a 6th grader gets into Nazism anyway...is that all from the internet, was someone in his life influencing him, or what? I still think the murders weren't planned and didn't have to do with these ideologies, but something has to be seriously wrong for an 11 year old to be praising Hitler....

Also some interesting insight into Kam. I'm getting a sense that he may have had a lot of social anxiety, which would fit into my theory of them both feeling like outcasts and "us against the world." It sounds like people liked him but he was maybe not aware of it, and afraid of people...the whole thing about him not being comfortable talking to or standing close to anyone besides Bryer. It seems like Bryer was the only person who he actually felt comfortable around. I'm definitely getting a sense of how extremely close they were and why they stuck together to the end...they could have betrayed each other, but I'm getting the sense that they were so bonded that they couldn't even consider the prospect of going on without each other.

All JMO.

I agree that the Nazi knife Ritalin thing is sketchy, but it's by far not the sketchiest thing I've encountered in my life. I've worked in jails, juvenile jails, juvenile court-mandated work programs and mental hospitals for the criminally insane since 1979, and in colleges and universities since 1981. I've worked in inside investigations for LE agencies. I've also lived in some cultures that some might regard as a bit odd.

If I did a Venn diagram of overlapping student/criminal populations, it would be quite a bit of strangeness.

In 6th grade, kids started spouting white supremacist stuff at my daughters. By high school, it was really ugly (much bigger high school, times had changed) but it was a very small group doing it.

About six months ago, my niece was followed by a group of young men (late teens, early twenties) shouting racist hate at her. My students say they hear racist epithets on the daily (all races, but mostly black and brown kids). I've gone out and done a little recording - because, where I grew up, absolutely no one would have said these things in public or shouted them.

BS and KM were young. If something (perhaps some small thing) had knocked them in a different direction, it's possible they would have peeled off from the herd and done what every other one of these kids would do: leave that crap behind. OTOH, people like K and B, if only slightly more "ept" might have developed into the next stage of criminality.