Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #14

[akazia1978]

I'll also say one thing regarding gaming. There are possibilities, and I have known people that have this issue, that start to take whatever game they are into and associate their value with it. I managed a guild in an empire type of game. I used a line app to communicate with my guild members. I left the game for a while because I stupidly posted a photo to that app revealing info that another used to track me down (including my home address) and I received threatening mail. I'm a 40 year old female who was basically stalked by another gamer. The worlds can get very confused for some people.
It's a power issue. I still play the game, but am more careful. I think the major reason no further info has come out regarding this, is that most are smarter than me(I was naive early on) and stay anon. Only way to find that out is through gamer names. I'd bet they used a Line app or Discord to communicate with others. You also tend to put on a harder persona in games, when in reality you're just a keyboard warrior. I'm not sure BS was necessarily that hard, not sure about Kam, I'd be curious to see their in game interactions with others....I know that's very unlikely though. These games aren't all giggles so to speak, some people really do take it next level with threats of violence and start to think they are their character in the game. Worlds blur, throw in a combo of outside factors and I see how this might happen...

 

[Shlock Homes]

AS said it was voice to text.

How would he know that's how BS used his FB messenger?

 

[10ofRods]

I'd say 3 people lost their lives unnecessarily, not 5. Nobody forced them to do what they did.

I'd still say that their actions were not necessary. I'm not big on predestination. Even if they both have the genes for an insufficient right pre-frontal cortex, I think something could have been done. There are forces that go beyond humans, in my worldview. Compulsions for example are another brain malfunction (and strongly keyed by genetics). But something could have been done.

I do agree that it's very odd that K and B took a course of action that resulted in their deaths, when they could have turned themselves in. But they could have avoided death, for sure. I am very curious why they did what they actually did. Too late for the brain studies that might have revealed some of this...maybe in a century we'll get there.

 

[Zella]

I had not seen this particular story posted, although it probably was at some point. It does offer a bit more insight into Bryer at least, some stuff I have not heard before.

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

SBM

Yes, that's a good article! There's a lot in it that I haven't seen elsewhere, including some of the descriptions of BS's behavior. I also always found the WM co-worker's statement interesting since she's so far the only one who has been less than glowing in talking about KM. It does seem like he and BS had a really emotionally co-dependent relationship.

That article was also the source that made me try to find Youtube and Twitch channels for Kam and Bryer but to no avail.

 

[Kubirai]

At face value, that's my understanding. RCMP find 2 dead bodies, they have to investigate it as a homicide. The results may be double suicide, homicide suicide, double homicide. I do not think that RCMP were implying that they think another person was with them at the time of their deaths.

Coroner may also determine deaths were due to exposure, or prior injuries, insect bites, etc.

 

[SiciC]

Co-worker M.J. Pelletier recalled Mr. McLeod was nice enough, but said he seemed uncomfortable in close contact with people other than Mr. Schmegelsky at work.

I was pretty shy and quiet when I was a teenager, I was only really comfortable with my best friend as well. Actually I'm sorta still that way lol. IMO I don't think that Kam being uncomfortable having close contact with people he didn't know as well as his best friend from childhood is unusual at all. I don't think we've heard really anything about Kam that points to anything unusual or off about him at all. Just saying cause I thought it seemed like that co-worker was insinuating it was a strange/unusual quality. Jmo

 

[scrappinkat]

It certainly makes you wonder why there was a publication ban for a day when they were charged in Dyck's death.

He was listed as John Doe still. They most likely did the publication ban so they could inform families before anyone did.

 

[Zella]

I was a pretty shy and quiet when I was a teenager, I was only really comfortable with my best friend as well. Actually I'm sorta still that way lol. IMO I don't think that Kam being uncomfortable having close contact with people he didn't know as well as his best friend from childhood is unusual at all. I don't think we've heard really anything about Kam that points to anything unusual or off about him at all. Just saying cause I thought it seemed like that co-worker was insinuating it was a strange/unusual quality. Jmo

I found it interesting because everyone else said he was more outgoing than Bryer and the general vibe I get from descriptions of him was that he usually came off as fairly normal in everyday conversation/interactions. He was said to have not many friends but also to be well-liked, and acquaintances/servers who waited on him in town said he was really pleasant. I would have liked to have heard more from her on what interactions with him that she continued odd. Maybe someone got into his personal space and that freaked him out. That would put me off, too, truthfully.

 

[Link Haze]

I found it interesting because everyone else said he was more outgoing than Bryer and the general vibe I get from descriptions of him was that he usually came off as fairly normal in everyday conversation/interactions. He was said to have not many friends but also to be well-liked, and acquaintances/servers who waited on him in town said he was really pleasant. I would have liked to have heard more from her on what interactions with him that she continued odd. Maybe someone got into his personal space and that freaked him out. That would put me off, too, truthfully.

I agree.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I had not seen this particular story posted, although it probably was at some point. It does offer a bit more insight into Bryer at least, some stuff I have not heard before.

I'm surprised I haven't seen that article before! It definitely has a lot of information not mentioned elsewhere. It even shows the signs asking for dashcam footage that we speculated might have freaked them out.

A lot of the stuff sounds like normal "edgy teen" behavior. And a lot of it doesn't. If I went camping with two friends and one of them was wearing a military outfit and swastika armband and crushing and snorting Ritalin with a giant Nazi knife, I would immediately leave. That's literally like the sketchiest thing I've ever heard of in my life. The fact that Kam was totally unbothered by that behavior says a lot. Even if he didn't do things like that, it's like he was implicitly showing that was the kind of thing he wanted to engage in, by hanging out with someone who was like that. JMO.

I'm also wondering how a 6th grader gets into Nazism anyway...is that all from the internet, was someone in his life influencing him, or what? I still think the murders weren't planned and didn't have to do with these ideologies, but something has to be seriously wrong for an 11 year old to be praising Hitler....

Also some interesting insight into Kam. I'm getting a sense that he may have had a lot of social anxiety, which would fit into my theory of them both feeling like outcasts and "us against the world." It sounds like people liked him but he was maybe not aware of it, and afraid of people...the whole thing about him not being comfortable talking to or standing close to anyone besides Bryer. It seems like Bryer was the only person who he actually felt comfortable around. I'm definitely getting a sense of how extremely close they were and why they stuck together to the end...they could have betrayed each other, but I'm getting the sense that they were so bonded that they couldn't even consider the prospect of going on without each other.

All JMO.

 

[Seattle1]

Even with the apparent deaths of Kam McLeod, 19, and Bryer Schmegelsky, 18, it is incumbent upon the RCMP to keep pursuing their investigation as if they were going to take the case to court, says Wayne Fowler, a retired homicide detective with the Toronto Police Service.

“The last thing an investigator wants is 10 years down the road, a deathbed confession (from someone else) saying, ‘It wasn’t them, it was me.’ ”

So far, RCMP officials have been tight-lipped about what evidence they have gathered against the pair who were wanted in connection with a trio of killings last month in northern B.C. They have acknowledged it may be “extremely difficult” to pinpoint a motive for the slayings.

“I know that investigators are going to be in the area where the bodies were discovered for some time, conducting scene analysis and searching for any other additional evidence,” Staff Sgt. Janelle Shoihet, a B.C. RCMP spokeswoman, told the National Post.

Shoihet said Thursday she’s not aware of any notes that the suspects may have left behind.

Fowler said it’s likely that investigators have canvassed the suspects’ family, friends and social media accounts and are now focused on retracing the steps they may have taken in recent weeks to see if anything might have been discarded along the way. Investigators will also likely be comparing evidence gathered in the area where the bodies were found near Gillam, Man., to evidence collected at the original crime scenes in northern B.C.

“The more information you can gather of their movements may help you with their mindset … to give you that big picture,” he said, adding: “Everybody wants a motive, but unfortunately sometimes you don’t get one.”

‘Everybody wants a motive’: The manhunt is over but the investigation is not

@otto, @SteveP -- more on the investigation continuing as if going to court to eliminate any possibility of deathbed confession 10 years down the road.

 

[MistyWaters]

And as I said in my post, now my question is about court procedure. I'm also interested in search warrants - so thank you for that. If K/B had survived to be in court, are you saying that when they were read their charges, that there would be no public documents outlining any evidence?

Apparently, then, a person can be charged with a crime in Canada without anything significant being listed in the charge document (that's different to what I'm used to). In most of the US, when the subject does appear in court, the charging documents must outline the evidence by which the judge will continue the case and not dismiss it.

In other words, charging someone is a first step, but then, the suspect appears in court and hears some version of what they are being charged with. Their lawyer has received and reviewed a copy, and if the defendant agrees, the judge will just ask if they understand their charges. By that time, the defense attorney will have asked for the outlines of his case, otherwise, it will not be the case that the defendant "understands their charges," if the charges aren't clear enough. It sounds like the US and Canada are similar, in that the charges don't have to have much (or any?) evidence attached to them at that point.

So, what you're saying is that at the initial appearance, the defendant will not know (nor will his lawyer know) what the basis for the charges are. We have a similar step in California, wherein the defendant is asked if they understand they're being charged with murder and at that point, the defendant has to say yes, or a competency hearing takes place. But, by the time a plea is expected, the defendant is supposed to have had time to review the evidence (and this holds up many a trial, since the evidence can be voluminous).

Does it work the same way in Canada? And, do people get held without bail while all sides prepare and respond to evidence? Are there any mechanisms at all for a judge to allow bail if there are no documents regarding evidence?

So, since K/B are dead, none of that will happen, right? In the case of Chynna and Lucas, no charges, so not even the barest outlines of a case, nothing to be made public whatsoever from court documents. Am I getting that right?

What will the court proceeding now be, if any? If RCMP closes the case and issues a report, that's it, right? There will be nothing in the public files regarding any evidentiary matters?

If you mean is there some sort of process whereby the public decides if the two are innocent or guilty, no. What would be the point of convicting dead men? That doesn’t occur in Canada nor does it occur in any other country that I’m aware of.

I think the RCMP will issue a final report months from now but I would guess the extent of the information may also be dependent on what the families of the three victims want released. At this point in time, considering the suspects are dead, the wishes of the families of the three victims supersede the curiosity of the general public, and such is their right through our privacy and confidentially laws in Canada.

 

[NJSleuth91]

I'd still say that their actions were not necessary. I'm not big on predestination. Even if they both have the genes for an insufficient right pre-frontal cortex, I think something could have been done. There are forces that go beyond humans, in my worldview. Compulsions for example are another brain malfunction (and strongly keyed by genetics). But something could have been done.

As I said, it's like that show Seconds From Disaster. If even one thing had gone differently in either of their lives, I don't think any of this would have happened.

I do agree that it's very odd that K and B took a course of action that resulted in their deaths, when they could have turned themselves in. But they could have avoided death, for sure. I am very curious why they did what they actually did. Too late for the brain studies that might have revealed some of this...maybe in a century we'll get there.

I mean...if you were these two guys, would you think that you would fare well in prison? I also strongly suspect that they were both at least intermittently suicidal for years leading up to this...JMO.

 

[Peace777]

Did BS's father really say "Kudos Boys" in reference to them evading the RCMP for 2 weeks? Hmmm Alan Schmegelsky refuses to accept son Bryer shot dead Australian Lucas Fowler and Chynna Deese | Daily Mail Online

 

[ldlager]

This may’ve been posted already. Probably they’re waiting on DNA test results.

BBM

“Autopsies on two bodies found by police in northern Manitoba during a search for B.C. fugitives Bryer Schmegelsky and Kam McLeod are complete, an RCMP spokesperson confirmed Sunday.

Sgt. Paul Manaigre said RCMP have formalities to complete before they can officially identify the bodies. However, he said it's believed the bodies are those of the suspects.

More details are expected on Monday from RCMP in B.C., Manaigre said, adding it will ultimately be up to Mounties in that province to release any information.

"Under the Fatality Inquiries Act, there's a few procedures that need to be carried out in order for us to … say with absolute certainty that these are the two people," Manaigre said.

"So we're just kind of waiting on those formalities to be done and then that information will be shared."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/bc-fugitive-autopsies-done-1.5243304

We may not hear anything of substance announced by the RCMP tomorrow

 

[ldlager]

If you mean is there some sort of process whereby the public decides if the two are innocent or guilty, no. What would be the point of convicting dead men? That doesn’t occur in Canada nor does it occur in any other country that I’m aware of.

I think the RCMP will issue a final report months from now but I would guess the extent of the information may also be dependent on what the families of the three victims want released. At this point in time, considering the suspects are dead, the wishes of the families of the three victims supersede the curiosity of the general public, and such is their right through our privacy and confidentially laws in Canada.

Can you please provide a link to the sections of “privacy and confidentiality laws in Canada” that provide that the cod and related info of a deceased person belongs to family members, and release thereof is up to them? I have searched unsuccessfully for this.

 

[Gardenista]

Not sure if this was posted

 

[Seattle1]

August 7, 2019

B.C. RCMP said Wednesday the discovery of two bodies believed to be the suspects in a string of murders in northern B.C. has not stopped their investigation into the deaths.

[...]

“We still need to ensure our investigative findings — whether it’s statements, evidentiary timelines, physical or digital evidence — continues to confirm our investigative theory and eliminates any other possibilities or suspects,” Hackett said. “Until that is completed we will not conclude this file.”

B.C. RCMP say deaths of northern B.C. murder suspects will not stop investigation

@otto - you can listen to Assistant Commissioner Kevin Hackett statements at link abvoe re. eliminate any other possibilities or suspects.

@SteveP - you remembered correctly -- sorry to wake you.

 

[MistyWaters]

Can you please provide a link to the sections of “privacy and confidentiality laws in Canada” that provide that the cod and related info of a deceased person belongs to family members, and release thereof is up to them? I have searched unsuccessfully for this.

Did you listen to the PC when the officer said the extent of LDs injuries would not be released due to the wishes of his family members?

But I’ll find you the link.

This is a good place to start -
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AND PROTECTION OF PRIVACY ACT
Table of Contents - Freedom of Information and Protection of Privacy Act

 

[Peace777]

The fourth victim that I’m talking about is McLeod or Schmegelsky. Murder is a crime, and consent is not a defence.

In other words, the police were treating the recovery site as a crime scene, and their subsequent work has been in part a criminal investigation. That’s what the recovery officer meant when he used the word homicide.

This is one of the things that people who have been demanding more info for the last six days just don’t get.

But if it was a planned murder/suicide between themselves then is the 1 murdered really a victim? Could they have said, "If we're cornered and we can't escape we'll kill ourselves or vice versa "Kill me then kill yourself too"? Maybe 1 of the 2 "chickened out" and wanted to give themselves up but the other said, "No way, I'll kill you before you do that" so he did perhaps. In which case it would be murder. We'll never know now I don't think . JMO